My group has recently started playing Kingmaker (so please, no spoilers). We're likely each going to be making a couple characters to rotate in periodically; sort of a revolving door party. FWIW, we're about to start book 2. One of my characters I'm considering playing is a Conjuration Wizard. He focuses on battlefield control, SoS, and some situational evocation/direct damage. I'll be going pretty light on summoning, since I don't enjoy all the bookkeeping required; they'll only be used very situationally and rarely. The details of the build aren't all that important, but I could share them if desired.
What I'm worried about is that he'll steal the spotlight and/or trivialize encounters too frequently. Given what I've seen so far, and what I've been led to believe, the module frequently allows for the "five minute workday" by putting plenty of time in between encounters. I realize there have got to be some sections that require resource management, but in my experience, allowing a wizard to uncork his full load-out of spells in one or two encounters is just asking for trouble.
I don't want to relegate the rest of the party to feeling like sidekicks. I know wizards, and I'm good at playing them, with plenty of experience dating back to 2nd edition.
I don't want to break the game, but I also like to build reasonably optimized characters. Short of intentionally de-optimizing, does anyone have some general advice on how to play a Wizard in Kingmaker? Are there certain things I should avoid, for the sake of the group's enjoyment?
Any advice would be appreciated, both from players and GMs. What kind of issues have Wizards created in your games? Am I worried about nothing?
I suppose I could simply use him sparingly. Maybe only bringing him in once in a while when I really get the itch to play a Wizard, while also giving the GM plenty of warning that I'll be doing so.
EDIT: if it helps, the current party is a Casting/Channeling focused Cleric, a Wild-shaping Druid, a standard Bard/Rogue, and a Maneuver Master Monk (me). I'm not sure what the others' alternate character concepts are/will be.
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My group has just finished book 3. Any spellcaster can burn a lot of their spells in the 1-2 encounter hexploration. A wizard, even conjuration, shouldn't be singled out. Our party wizard is just that and I haven't felt trivialized at all. Everyone has their moments to shine.
If the wizard does unbalance the game in a way that no other player comes close to then perhaps you can address it at that point. Otherwise, have fun! ;)
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The "5 minute workday" should be ameliorated by the possibility of a random encounter at any time in the wild if the DM is doing his/her job. My players have seen (and avoided) trolls and owlbears at levels 1-2, and they like to keep something in reserve always. A wizard isn't going to necessarily steal the spotlight more than any other class, and most combats shouldn't last so long that you could throw all your spells at a situation anyways.
My players' arcane caster single-handedly saved the day in one encounter with a werewolf random encounter because only his spells could hurt the thing, and on other occasions, we've seen the melee characters obliterate a foe with a critical hit or charge with a lance for x2 dmg before the caster really contributed. Everyone will get a chance to shine both on and off the battlefield.
Conclusion: you'll be fine.
Have him do primarily spells that buff others -- make it easy for them, and they'll have a fun time along with you. Save a bunch of spells in case things go wrong, or there's a bad night encounter, or whatever.
Some good suggestions above.
I'll echo that you should take the wandering monster threat seriously and always hold some decent spells in reserve.
Thank you all for your feedback. I appreciate the advice.
The "5 minute workday" should be ameliorated by the possibility of a random encounter at any time in the wild if the DM is doing his/her job...and most combats shouldn't last so long that you could throw all your spells at a situation anyways.
This combination of factors is actually exactly what I'm talking about. The consensus is that its a non-issue, but allow me to explain.
Even with random encounters to account for (I'd never allow myself to run completely empty...any good wizard always saves a trump card or two) combats don't last all that long. Even liberally using spells each round, I'll never run out unless I'm forced into 4+ combats per day.
From what I can tell, there aren't going to be a whole lot of days like that in Kingmaker. What that effectively means is that the percentage of fights I'll get to use the high level spell "big guns" in goes up exponentially. Compared to a normal dungeon crawl, staying power will be a non-issue for me. Wands and scrolls only make that easier.
This would be especially true if and when I land an early "fight ender" on a BBEG, which would lead to very short (and, potentially un-fun) battles on occasion. Plus, it only gets easier as the levels climb. We're at 5th level now, and traditionally, that's around when I stop having major "budgeting issues" with Wizards even in a normal campaign.
But, in a normal campaign, that means I've got my lower level spells to fall back on. After all, a wizard who has used all his 4th and 5th level spells can do a lot to meaningfully contribute to combats with all those left over 1st-3rd level spells. In a campaign like this though, I'll just be throwing out the high level spells way more often, while still having the lower level ones (and perhaps a trump or two) to fall back on as normal.
That's what concerns me. Not running out of spells. After 3rd-4th level, I very rarely truly run out anyway. It just seems to me that not needing to be judicious about when I unleash the real power could be problematic. Also, and granted this is under my full control, but it could become stale if I fall into repeated patterns. I'll have to watch that as well.
And no, the issue is not limited to Wizards, but IME, arcane casters can be way more disruptive to the group dynamic than anyone else. Cleric spells don't tend to end fights before they begin. Many Wizard spells do just that. Certainly, there are major exceptions, especially later on, and done well, a Wizard can also be a very positive influence on the group dynamic. Still, we're also not too likely to have any other full casters aside from the Cleric. Admittedly, he's been powerful so far as well, but he's more focused on making the party better and throwing out minor debuffs than just making the GM want to cry, as is the Conjuration modus operandi.
----TLDR----
I'll probably end up just dipping my toes in to see how it goes. I'll never lead off with a major SoS/SoD, even when I *know* who the BBEG is. One round combats are lame for everyone; IMO even more so when its a single failed save that ends (or neuters) the combat, rather than say a charging lance hit. Everyone can get behind a big crit and lots of damage, even if you're not the one landing it. Failed save vs. flesh to stone? Not as much IMO, unless there are multiple major threats to deal with (sure the Wizard has fun, everyone else, less so).
Probably, I'll end up scaling back on the truly neutering debuffs and SoD spells to some degree; generally saving those for my trump cards for use when things get dicey. I'll definitely be throwing buffs out early, so that helps somewhat.
Meh, I'm sure it'll be fine; I'll adjust accordingly if not, even if it means shelving the character. Thanks guys.
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MT, yours is a valid concern up to a point, but it very Gm dependant.
Consider the time spent exploring in a day. How long will your buff spell last (especially those coming from wands)?
Unless your GM always start encounters at the maximum possible distance and his wandering monsters are always wandering, and never laying in ambush or hunting using stealth, there are good chances that your wizard will be without his defensive buffs at the start of an encounter.
So you can resolve an encounter with the right spell and the next be the squishy wizard that find himself at 30' from a hunting creature bursting out from a hiding hole.
A large percentage of the good defensive spells don't last 8th hours, so most of the time you will have to prepare several of them to cover multiple encounters and you will have to cast them multiple times in a day.
Then there is the possibility of encounters while you are camped for the night or to eat, care for the horses and equipment, register the result of the day exploration and so on (remember, you are mapping the territory).
The normal maximum number of encounter in a day will be 3+the hexagon set piece (and the set piece alone can be multiple encounters). If your group is moving at a fast pace through several hex in a day that number can increase. The evolution of the story can add other encounters and so on.
So you can go from 0 encounter one day to 4+ the next. As you don't know what will happen you generally will have to act as if 4 encounters were the norm.
Kingmaker is one of the AP where a wizard has a possibility to outshine several other classes, as he will have the time to craft magic items, prepare scroll and research spells. Most of the adventure path is slow paced enough that he can really benefit for that kind of feats, but there are as many occasions for wilderness types to outshine him (you are in a northern climate, sudden snow storm will not be a strange occurrence and when the visibility is 10' your wizard is in trouble).
The weather table play a important part in Kingmaker. Neglecting them is a way to reduce the importance of several key abilities of classes like the ranger, barbarian or druid.
Cleric-types have several opportunities too and leadership oriented fighters will have their moments on the spotlight.
The classes with less opportunities, in my eyes, are the rogues and the pure melee fighters. And probably the monk, but I am not a fan of the class and I feel that a monk will be out of place in Kingmaker anyway.
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To add, much of Kingmaker isn't centered around just combats. Rolling a 100% on a daily weather check for a spring tornado, not much any class can do other than roll some survival or perception for a hiding spot.
Almost sounds like you're developing a character concept (one who is reluctant to unleash his more destructive powers and may hold back, even when common sense tells him he needs to act).
I think it depends on your DM and the experience of the other players.
I'm playing a priestess (3rd party; essentially a divine wizard.) and, because 2 of our group are novices to the game, there are times when I've held back, just to give them a chance to do something. The DM is newish, too.
The last session was a lot easier as one of the noobs has left the group and the other is now playing a cavalier, so he's quite happy hitting things with his lance and seeing some big numbers. (His previous character was a sorceror). The other player is an experienced (min/maxxing) sorceror so I've no need to worry about his spotlight time.
Incidentally, I've been playing D&D for years but it's only recently that I've started to play casters, so it's not like I have lots of experience in that area.
In short: if the other players and the DM are experienced, you'll be fine. If not, you'll probably be bored.
More good thoughts, especially regarding the exploration/weather aspect of the campaign. Thanks.
Unless your GM always start encounters at the maximum possible distance and his wandering monsters are always wandering, and never laying in ambush or hunting using stealth, there are good chances that your wizard will be without his defensive buffs at the start of an encounter.
This is a good point, and will likely go a long way towards insuring others have a chance to act before I really take a shot at blowing things up. I play wizards with an eye towards self preservation first and always. Combats, rarely start at max distance at our table. If combat does start with me in a dangerous spot, the first order of business is always to get myself safe (i.e. levitate/fly, mirror image, invisibility, etc). I'd never, or at least very rarely, open with an offensive spell capable of ending things if a successful save or two would get me killed or trapped.
I don't tend to rely on many "all day" defensive buffs though. A few, but they're not usually critical (stuff like false life, and mage armor perhaps). I DO rely on round/level defensive buffs in combat if I find myself in a dangerous spot. If not, well...just get some distance and open up. Regardless, my primary defense is usually positioning.
Kingmaker is one of the AP where a wizard has a possibility to outshine several other classes, as he will have the time to craft magic items, prepare scroll and research spells. Most of the adventure path is slow paced enough that he can really benefit for that kind of feats, but there are as many occasions for wilderness types to outshine him (you are in a northern climate, sudden snow storm will not be a strange occurrence and when the visibility is 10' your wizard is in trouble).
And I definitely plan to make use of some crafting feats (scrolls, potions, wondrous items). Scrolls will go a long way (as always) towards ensuring I'll literally always still have a few tricks up my sleeve, even on a multi-encounter day.
You're not lying about wilderness types though. My wizard is definitely not that. He's a bit "citified", having only recently returned home to Brevoy after years away in Absalom. He will do plenty of complaining when conditions get ugly, and will definitely burn spell slots on stuff like endure elements to make himself more comfortable. He'll certainly not steal the survivalist spotlight at all.
When visibility goes to nothing, he'd probably focus on casting things like haste, going vertical, and/or turtling up by readying actions to cast when things get close. Definitely would not go charging blindly through the fog in search of targets.
In short: if the other players and the DM are experienced, you'll be fine. If not, you'll probably be bored.
We've got a mix of everything. Of the experienced players, I'm the heaviest optimizer though. The other most experienced player is basically allergic to optimization (melee Bard/Rogue). The GM is as experienced as the two of us (since 2nd ed.). He's really never had to deal with me as a wizard, but it should be okay. Otherwise we've got a heavy optimizer who generally knows what he's doing and has been playing with us for a couple years (casting Cleric) and a very new player (feral Druid).
Almost sounds like you're developing a character concept (one who is reluctant to unleash his more destructive powers and may hold back, even when common sense tells him he needs to act).
Yeah, that's a good observation. The character is definitely not a "shoot first ask questions later" kind of guy. If he's going to use lethal force (or enable lethal force by his teammates via SoS spells), he's going to know he's got little alternative first. I'm actually thinking of playing him as LG, which I've never done as a caster.
Also, I should note that he'll have a bonded object: wand. I realize this is certainly not an optimal choice, but it fits the concept way too well not to use (he's based heavily on wizardry in the harry potter world). Plus, it gives my DM another avenue to pick on me if he needs to knock me down a peg, which will ultimately be a good thing I think. He's not the type to constantly try to disarm and sunder the thing, but knowing the risk may well be enough to prevent me from being an enormous pain in his rear.
TLDR: At any rate, my concerns are mostly alleviated. So thank you all for commenting. I think the power balance should ultimately work out just fine, especially since I'll show restraint if I need to. So...guess Atama is online. I'll likely be rotating him in within a few weeks.