So I'm thinking of mkaing a Wizard/Monk hybrid. Will he suck balls?
Neither class works well with multiclassing. You will be pretty bad(not good) at casting spells and fighting.
I don't know what your concept is, but there is probably a better way to do it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
i'm looking to make a monk that can cast spells
MAD city.
You need lots of INT for wizzy, and physical + WIS for monk.
The only stat you can have low is Charisma.
In short, you won't excel in anything.
If you want synergy, go Monk/Druid (Lawful Neutral to appease both alignments).
Both profit from high Wisdom, and now both INT and CHA can be left a bit lower.
Further, Druids have 3/4 BAB while Wizards have 1/2.
Further, wildshape + monk combat can be cool.
Further, spontaneous summons is always fun.
Their was a 3.5 hybrid prc for this. The name escapes me, but I think it's in the complete arcane or complete mage splat book.
Imho your best bet is a magus using some kind of monkish weapon.
There's also Monk/Cleric, but then the Cleric's armor proficiency gets ignored.
Many of the same reasons as Monk/Druid.
Pick a deity with domains that work well with self-buffs and combat.
Monk/Inquisitor?
Holy Vindicator Prestige class?
There are non-sucky options, but they're all divine.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
if you really want to do that combo it would be better with a monk sorceror, theres a bloodline for sorc empyreal i think? that allows you to use wisdom as your primary casting stat, that would help with the MAD
Hmm gotcha, what if I take a domain? Is there any domain thats better than others for a monk druid?
I would rather be doing arcane damage...
I also would like to punch the s$@! out of things, no weird-o weapons.
Travel is always a good domain to look at.
War is a bit overrated, but the floating feat domain ability is tasty.
Strength? That fits the theme nicely.
I'd let my RP-creativity help me pick... now that you have the class idea, picture the concept and the person. What's the background? How would he become what he is? What about family or loved ones?
Then the rest falls into place, while also feeding more to the concept, which feeds more into the choices, forming a cycle of creativity and ending with a badass character. Just be sure that, when coming up with a background, you avoid weenie things like "he was a cobbler for 10 years, so I need to sink skill ranks into profession-cobbler". Make RP choices that fit with some level of optimization; don't fall into the Stormwind fallacy.
If you go druid you will be wildshaped for most combats, and the martial arts aspect won't come into play that much, and multi-classing any full caster weakens it.
Taking a magus, and letting it use unarmed strike or a cestus can probably be done well.
|
I would prefer not to use quite so rude an expression.
The monk depends on strength, dexterity, constitution and wisdom. If you add a high enough intelligence to be good at magic, you will severely hamper your melee ability.
If you are using a point-buy system, I would highly recommend against trying to combine monk with wizard. If you are rolling dice, and you get some insanely good results, you might consider it.
If you want to combine monk with arcane caster, I would recommend Empyreal sorcerer, which uses wisdom rather than intelligence or charisma for casting.
Aside from the necessity to spread your points over more attributes, you have to deal with the loss of monk abilities to get spell casting. I would suggest against trying to combine monk with "blaster" caster and concentrate on buffing and battlefield control.
So I'm thinking of mkaing a Wizard/Monk hybrid. Will he suck balls?
Are you talking about multi-classing or making up an entirely new class? If the former then he will probably be le suck, but if you are tooling around with the latter...
I would think of it kind of like a Zen Archer variant. You could use Intelligence instead of Wisdom for your AC bonus and if you worked in a mechanic to deliver touch spells as part of your unarmed attacks, well that could get really nice really quickly.
If you want to combine monk with arcane caster, I would recommend Empyreal sorcerer, which uses wisdom rather than intelligence or charisma for casting.I would suggest against trying to combine monk with "blaster" caster and concentrate on buffing and battlefield control.
These are excellent suggestions.
In 3.5 there was a monk/wizard prestige class in one of the books.
I played one in a Eberron campaign and had a fine time.
(That said, I wasn't the primary mage.)
As I recall, it had a class ability that let you spend a 'use' of stunnig fist to add spell damage to your unarmed strike, as well as letting levels stack for monk damage and AC.
You and your GM might be able to tackle a conversion to suit yourselves.
In regards to the druid/monk, the feral combat feat lets you use natural attacks as unarmed combat, but with some limitations.
Monk/emp sor/ arcane archer.
Imho your best bet is a magus using some kind of monkish weapon.
Maybe Staff-Magus
Im very suprised no one said Qinggong monk...
So this is what I am getting from the OP:
"I want to punch the whatsit out of things, and I want to do arcane damage."
Unspoken, but I'm guessing part of the monk attraction is also being armorless or at best lightly armored.
My DeathQuaker-is-a-crazy-lady suggestion would be...
Fighter 1/Monk 1/Sorcerer (Celestial-Empyreal) 8/Eldritch Knight 10
(You'd qualify for EK after Fighter 1/Sorcerer 6)
The Monk level is for Wis bonus to AC and boosting unarmed damage dice to 1d6, and the bonus feat and stunning fist are also nice. The Fighter level is to help qualify for EK and for bonus feat and BAB boost (plus it gives you armor as an option if you want it. Sorcerer with the Celestial bloodline and the Empyreal Wildblooded variant is, as the others note, so you can have Wisdom as your casting stat.
EK keeps you going with high BAB and spellcasting at the same time, and adds to fighter levels for qualifying for combat feats, meaning you can eventually boost your unarmed damage with feats like Weapon Specialization. Were you to max out at 20th level, you'd be CL 17 and be able to cast 8th level arcane spells.
I'd go for a lot of buffs to raise AC and attack bonuses especially at lower levels, before getting to the blastier spells desired. This would also make the build more manageable at lower levels, as of course with all EK builds it will take awhile to come together.
I'd prioritize Wisdom and probably Dexterity first to get AC as high as possible (maybe Weapon Finesse for attack bonus to Unarmed Strikes), then Str and Con. I wouldn't worry about Int and Cha.
I don't know the magus well but if there's a way to make them good at punching, then that might be a more efficient route (even if lower max spell level).
Regarding broader interpretations of magic-yet-punchy... I think Patterson's suggestion of the Qinggong monk is fabulous.
There was some talk of divine classes as a course and the OP asked about druids --- for core druid at least, the plant domain gives you a (limited) punching ability and later a cool armor ability for close quarters combat.
Just some thoughts.
The Enlightened Fist from 3.5 was decent (complete arcane I believe was the book). There was also a feat that let you stack some Sorcerer and Monk stuff.
Without that, I just don't see it really working, as of right now, in pathfinder. SO.....yeah...He'll probably be orally vacuuming spherical objects.
If you play in a non-minmax setting you might be able to get away with Monk 2/Empyreal Sorcerer 6/Fighter 2/Eldritch Knight 10 and use long term buffs and polymorph spells to get funky. This build gets you 16 BAB and 15 levels of Sorcerer casting based off of Wisdom, as well as a solid amount of bonus feats. With good Dex and Wisdom scores you could really amp your AC up via Mage Armor and Shield. Your damage would suffer, but you could focus on things like tripping and/or grappling possibly, especially with the polymorph spells later on, this could make things easier and get around the size issues that both tactics have. You'd also be able to cast Greater Magic Weapon on your body in addition to using an Amulet of Mighty Fists to add enhancements to your unarmed attacks. If you go this battlefield control style route, I suggest taking the Lore Warden fighter archetype, as it'll net you combat expertise for free. I'm not an expert on Monk archetypes, but I'm betting you could get something out of the two levels of Monk that would help through some archetype.
Edit: Ninja'd by Deathquaker! Our builds have some differences (more combat and less casting in mine), but are the same basic idea.
Are you set on wizard? At the very least taking a Empyreal wild blooded sorceror would make it so you dont need 2 mental stats for your abilities (both would work off wizard).
In fact if your dm allows it crossblooded Empyreal/dragonic sorceror + monk + dragon disciple is badass. Monster strength, nifty natural armor bonuses, and a signficant number of useful buff spells, makes a pretty solid character.
The 3.5 PrC people keep referencing is Enlightened Fist, from Complete Arcane, I think. Note 3E also had the Ascetic Mage feat to use charisma as your "monk stat" for monk/sorcs and two feats (Kung Fu Genius and Carmendine Monk) to use Int as your "monk stat."
If any of that stuff is possible for use, look into it.
Personally, I'd just do 1-2 levels in Master of Many Styles (and possibly Sohei) Monk + Druid for the rest. Take a blasty domain like Ash and Smoke Fire subdomains (they don't conflict) and make use of the druid's blasty and battlefield control spells. Much more synergistic and simple.
And...I was ninja'd, someone else mentioned it was enlightened fist.
I always liked the idea of a monk/sorcerer. Make some sort of crazy firebender character.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If I were making a Monk/Sorcerer, it would be Shang Tsung. "Your soul is mine!"
Are you set on wizard? At the very least taking a Empyreal wild blooded sorceror would make it so you dont need 2 mental stats for your abilities (both would work off wizard).
In fact if your dm allows it crossblooded Empyreal/dragonic sorceror + monk + dragon disciple is badass. Monster strength, nifty natural armor bonuses, and a signficant number of useful buff spells, makes a pretty solid character.
This is a fine idea that I wholeheartedly endorse.
So I'm thinking of mkaing a Wizard/Monk hybrid. Will he suck balls?
Yes
If you attempt a 1 for 1 level mix.Dipping either way is fine.
As mentioned the 3.5 feat Kung Fu Genius let you swap WIS for INT as the driver for your Monk abilities. That's a big help. Using the Empyreal Sorceror bloodlines is a viable alternative in PFRPG only scenarios.
The truth is neither class is great as a multiclass option. Wizards who give up too many levels of spell progression are weak. Monks lose too many options and too much offense with spellcaster levels.
There are nice dip options however.
A monk who dips into Abjuror gets access to AC buffs, energy resistance and low level defensive spells. Shield and Mage Armor make monks tanks. This can be done with an INT of 11, since you don't need to worry about DCs. Just one level.
A one level dip into Transmuter is not horrible.
Alchemist is possibly an option if that is within your realm of Arcane Inclusiveness. The Bomb class feature is there for blastyness, mutagen will help with punching stuff into next week. The skills have UMD as a class skill (which is good). The spell list has some killer low level buffs for the Monk including Shield, Truestrike, Barkskin, Invisibility, Fly and Energy Resist.
Poison Use should be looked at. Or the Vivisectionist gives sneak attack which is cool on a Medusa's Flurry.
And Brew Potion at first with the option of extending potions at second level.
This takes Craft(X) Item off the table however.
As pointed out Monks are a MAD class (Multiple Ability Dependent). They need good physical stats and a strong Wisdom score. Spreading your points over 4 stats is hard enough, adding a 5th stat is painful. An 11 in INT is not out of the question though. Both Elf and Dwarf give the bonuses as racial mods to pull this off in a point buy game, providing a 20 point buy.
Would a Magus without weapons work?
Or gishing it?
I think so, at least if you multi-class with monk. If not multi-class the magus would need to spend the feat to fight unarmed.
BTW elemental bloodline, or any elemental domain for the fire-bending, earth-bending, etc. monks :)
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Or gishing it?
If this is for a home-game, ask your DM if you can try this one out:
Arcane FistIt's a monk/magus hybrid class (part of the Multiclass Archetypes project). monk/wizard is also in the works but isn't polished yet.
|
So this is what I am getting from the OP:
"I want to punch the whatsit out of things, and I want to do arcane damage."
Unspoken, but I'm guessing part of the monk attraction is also being armorless or at best lightly armored.
My DeathQuaker-is-a-crazy-lady suggestion would be...
Fighter 1/Monk 1/Sorcerer (Celestial-Empyreal) 8/Eldritch Knight 10
(You'd qualify for EK after Fighter 1/Sorcerer 6)
Monk (Sohei) 1/sorcerer ( empyrial) 6 gets you to eldritch knight too. Since you're not going anywhere with Monk anyway, Sohei gets you the weapon proficiencies and there's not much trade off.
Use the fighter equivalent feats on unarmed specialization I guess. Tough to make something that is not a poor striker and a poor caster that way.
--------------
Another idea would be Monk 4, Sorcerer 1( draconic)/Dragon Disciple 10
You'd end up with 4th level spells at level 15 so you wouldn't need huge charisma and could concentrate more on physical attributes. Still MAD like crazy but you could start with a 12 charisma or something and worry about it later.
It would feel like a Monk with some cool attribute and AC bumps plus a little spell casting that could be self buff-focused. You'd end up as a dragon form monk, kinda.
There's also Monk/Cleric, but then the Cleric's armor proficiency gets ignored.
Many of the same reasons as Monk/Druid.
Pick a deity with domains that work well with self-buffs and combat.Monk/Inquisitor?
Holy Vindicator Prestige class?There are non-sucky options, but they're all divine.
For the Monk/Cleric -- consider the Cloistered Cleric or other archetype that gives up medium armor. Since you are planning to give up armor anyway, it is a good idea to try to get something back for it.
|
|
Thinking more about a monk 4/sorcerer1/Dragon Disciple 5
I know you can't combine monk flurry with natural attacks but could you do a single unarmed strike with the natural attacks?
So, the DD above could attack like:
Claw/Claw/Bite/Kick, all at full BAB which would be 6 plus a second iterative attack with the Kick?
If so, you could build that kind of character like:
Str15+2(race)+1(4th)+4(DD)+items
Dex14
Con14
Int7
Wis14
Cha12+1(8th)
You'd have an ok AC of 25 ( Dex+Wis+2 natural+arcane armour+shield +1 monk )
BAB is 6 but that gets bumped by +2 from the DD strength bumps so you would be close to par with a Monk of same level with a bunch of unique abilities.
|
|
have you considered the unarmed fighter or brawler archetypes for the fighter class? They have a lot of monk-like combat ability, but drastically reduce your MAD. Eldritch knight is also a very good viable choice here.
If you do go with monk, you really need a 3/4 - 1/4 split between the classes at most. Either you are a monk with a little arcane power, or a wizard with some monk training. With this philosophy, the MAD also goes down. In a 20 pt buy that focuses on wizard, put a 17 (racial bonus applied) in int and you would still have 13 points to spread around your monk stats. You could easily dump chr to 8 and have 14s in dex, con and wis. Not great, but you would be effective. go 2 or 3 levels of monk and then wizard for a good long time.
The monastic legacy feat (selectable at monk3) also helps with damage as half your non-monk levels are applied when calculating unarmed damage.
Yeah that Monastic Legacy is almost a game changer in the multiclassing dept. You still won't get the nifty high level monk "screw the monster's SA" defenses, but it'll still hurt when you punch something. It doesn't help with arcane caster classes, since you won't hit; unless you go with this combo.
True Strike
Vital Strike (with as many followups as you can get).
A Monk's Robe
Ring of Wizardry (for lots of true strikes)
Still not good, it's a one trick pony.
|
Monk/Magus is fine. The Monk states "A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons." So unarmed can be your weapon of choice.
Only problem is you can not flurry and cast because while the Magus allows you to treat a spell as a second weapon, that weapon(spell) is not a "Special monk weapon" thus not eligible for TWF. is okay, though because you can use your arcane pool to buff the crap out of your fists, and when you get Ki you can add that too. It's nice to have the option to sling a spell from time to time too, great opener followed by flurry.
Go monk of empty hand, it lets you inflict any type of damage (blunt, slash, etc) you want later on and with a little tooling you can go Quiggong with it. Magus wise I'd go Kensai.
that's just me, YMMV