What is the closest Chinese analogue to a knight?


Off-Topic Discussions


I know they didn't have knights as per the western concept. What was the closest equivalent they did have?

Liberty's Edge

I give to thee, the Youxia!


Studpuffin wrote:
I give to thee, the Youxia!

I must now play one.


An Eclipse...?


I shall play a Youxia Sorcerer/Cavalier/Dragon Disciple!


...Is that where the Japanese term "Yuusha" ("Brave") comes from?


Dunno. All I know is that I have a "Chinese" Sorcerer 1/Cavalier 5/Dragon Disciple 4 in the works right now.


Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Dunno. All I know is that I have a "Chinese" Sorcerer 1/Cavalier 5/Dragon Disciple 4 in the works right now.

Just needs spells.


This is prompting the need for a Sangoku Musou-esque adventure path.

Liberty's Edge

Samurai!


Gark the Goblin wrote:
Samurai!

-11.

D:<


Evil Midnight Lurker wrote:
...Is that where the Japanese term "Yuusha" ("Brave") comes from?

Unlikely. A direct translation of the characters comes out to something like "travelling hero". Although I guess it could be deeply imbedded slang. (I'm only familiar with Chinese stuff, not with Japanese stuff, but the writing/characters meanings are the same between the 2 languages)


Strange, I thought that they appeared some few hundred years earlier than the article states (i.e. during Springs And Autumns period of late Zhou or at least during Warring States period).

Shadow Lodge

Whats the closest Chinese analogue to a crusader or Knight-priest?


Beckett wrote:
Whats the closest Chinese analogue to a crusader or Knight-priest?

Warrior-monks of various Buddhist sects. If you are open to more general oriental analogues then the warrior-monks of Japanese Buddhist sects are best fit as they had some three hundred years of history of religious conflicts and were major military power in Sengoku period until crushed by Oda Nobunaga and Toyotomi Hideyoshi.

Grand Lodge

Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
I know they didn't have knights as per the western concept. What was the closest equivalent they did have?

They didn't really have anything that's even close. Chinese culture in general has never been one that encourages personal glory for any significant part of its history save during the various periods of barbarian hordes. Instead there is a much higher emphasis on duty to the whole which is vastly different than the Japanese or Feudal Europe codes of personal honor.

There were warrior-monk sohei as mentioned earlier but they're not really comparable to samurai or knights as you understand them in terms of role or mindset, they were not enforcers of a feudal hierarchy which was the essential role of the sammurai and the knight.


LazarX wrote:
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
I know they didn't have knights as per the western concept. What was the closest equivalent they did have?

They didn't really have anything that's even close. Chinese culture in general has never been one that encourages personal glory for any significant part of its history save during the various periods of barbarian hordes. Instead there is a much higher emphasis on duty to the whole which is vastly different than the Japanese or Feudal Europe codes of personal honor.

There were warrior-monk sohei as mentioned earlier but they're not really comparable to samurai or knights as you understand them in terms of role or mindset, they were not enforcers of a feudal hierarchy which was the essential role of the sammurai and the knight.

How important were Youxia? They seem to be what I'm looking for.


I have a question for you Kelsey. You seem to be writing up new characters constantly and experimenting with new campaign ideas all the time.

Just how many games are you in? I only say this cause I get to design a new character maybe once every year or two cause the campaigns I'm in last a long damn time.

Course they go from level 1-20+...

Oh yeah, can you inform the rest of us about your group makeup? I'm curious as hell.

Sorry to hijack your thread for this, but I know you'll read it.

-Tundra


I'm in two games at the moment, one of which is a slow moving PBP and the other a solo adventure. In the past I've had two main gaming groups, one of which took turns GMing, but neither group was particuarly willing to play in a non-abusive manner. One had a fairly good GM for a bit, but it didn't last. I'm not a member of either group anymore. My campaigns rarely last more than a few levels, and are usually over within a week or two at most.

Most of the characters I bring to the boards are either NPCs or characters that I think would be awesome to play, but that I don't actually intend to play or that I intend to save as backups for a current character. As for campaign ideas, I have far more of them flying around my head than I could ever use, and I greatly enjoy sharing them. Most of what I post on these boards is either hypothetical or for future use, not for immediate use.


While I lack the terms, the first thing that came to mind was the Three Kingdoms period, and the oathbrothers Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, and Liu Bei. Or Zhao Yun, or Ma Chao, or pretty much a good chunk of the characters from Romance of the Three Kingdoms who were itinerant and martially inclined.

This is not helped by the mental image of a dwarven Dong Zhuo.


TheAntiElite wrote:

While I lack the terms, the first thing that came to mind was the Three Kingdoms period, and the oathbrothers Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, and Liu Bei. Or Zhao Yun, or Ma Chao, or pretty much a good chunk of the characters from Romance of the Three Kingdoms who were itinerant and martially inclined.

This is not helped by the mental image of a dwarven Dong Zhuo.

I think he was a half-fiend when we statted him up for a game once. That was years ago.

-Tundra

Grand Lodge

Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
I know they didn't have knights as per the western concept. What was the closest equivalent they did have?

They didn't really have anything that's even close. Chinese culture in general has never been one that encourages personal glory for any significant part of its history save during the various periods of barbarian hordes. Instead there is a much higher emphasis on duty to the whole which is vastly different than the Japanese or Feudal Europe codes of personal honor.

There were warrior-monk sohei as mentioned earlier but they're not really comparable to samurai or knights as you understand them in terms of role or mindset, they were not enforcers of a feudal hierarchy which was the essential role of the sammurai and the knight.

How important were Youxia? They seem to be what I'm looking for.

When you run into a noun of something you've never heard of, wikipedia is a good place to start. If you had done so, you'd have read that most accounts of these folks are from the northern provinces of China where the population was essentially nomadic. While they are described as an equivalent to traveling Knight's Errant, the important difference here is that these figures are not in service to a lord. They're much more like Bruce Wayne in that these are figures who are self-appointed guardians of the weak. (which makes them about as opposite from Knight/Samurai as you can draw out)

From what I've read while Youxia are the source of a fair number of great tales, they did not amount to much historical importance given that they were essentially products of the fringe of Chinese society and did not move beyond that fringe.


Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:

I'm in two games at the moment, one of which is a slow moving PBP and the other a solo adventure. In the past I've had two main gaming groups, one of which took turns GMing, but neither group was particuarly willing to play in a non-abusive manner. One had a fairly good GM for a bit, but it didn't last. I'm not a member of either group anymore. My campaigns rarely last more than a few levels, and are usually over within a week or two at most.

Most of the characters I bring to the boards are either NPCs or characters that I think would be awesome to play, but that I don't actually intend to play or that I intend to save as backups for a current character. As for campaign ideas, I have far more of them flying around my head than I could ever use, and I greatly enjoy sharing them. Most of what I post on these boards is either hypothetical or for future use, not for immediate use.

I have some ideas for you, but I'm sending them in a PM. Give me some time to write stuff down.

-Tundra

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