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I assume you're already incorporating the noble house members listed in the Brevoy article (in the same issue as Stolen Land).
My Kingmaker campaign is nearing the end of Chapter 1 right now, but I'm planning a couple of things that might interest you.
First, I had each player fill out a Background Questionaire which included questions such as "You have a particular patron who suggested you for the exploration of the Greenbelt. Who is it? What is their interest in this project? What is it about your relationship that makes them think you’ll be a particularly good agent for their interests?" (Other questions asked for info on their immediate family, an ally and an enemy "back home in Brevoy," as well as a "troubling mystery for which they don't know the answer.")
I'm using the information from their backgrounds to supplement a guest list for a large gala party in Restov at which they will receive their charter to found their kingdom. For most of the NPCs attending, I'm using random tables from a variety of sources to create secret motivations and plot hooks. The PCs will probably only interact with a limited number of these hooks at the gala - but they might choose to recruit some of these NPCs as members of their ruling council, and they'll certainly have future opportunities to interact with the NPCs. (Some of the NPC plots are things that will just wait until the PCs stumble across them before I develop them further - a few, however, might continue to develop in the background.)
The second thing I'm planning involves the Vanishing. I'm putting this in spoiler, because it necessarily involves many specific plot elements from throughout the adventure path:
At the time of the Vanishing, Nyrissa used the Oculus of Abaddon (and some magic mirrors which opened a magical portal) to snatch all the descendents of House Rogarvia, using Choral's blood/hair/whatever as a link to only call Choral's descendents through the mirror portals, while everyone else slept an enchanted sleep). The Rogarvians are in soul jars similar to those which will be holding the kidnapped folk of Varnhold in chapter 3; Nyrissa is using them as part of a web of components to power her ritual for the end of chapter 6.
Sometime after the end of chapter 1, Nyrissa uses another mirror (which then shatters in place) to deliver the Oculus to Vordakai's Tomb, where Vordakai can discover and use it once he awakens. I'm also planning on having a lock of Nyrissa-hair on Willas Gunderson (sp?) along with enough of a rough map to imply that Nyrissa somehow arranged for him to discover the Tomb and awaken Vordakai.
Related details - Nyrissa used a similar magic-mirror portal to kill the unicorn that is found in Stolen Land - my PCs found mirror shards at the site from the shattered mirror she had to leave behind. Nyrissa can "step through" a mirror portal, but she's really only projecting a reflection of herself, so if she leaves line-of-sight, the mirror shatters and she is jolted back into her body. This way, she can do things like kill the unicorn, but still be trapped. The Rogarvians stepped through the mirror portals when called by the oculus, so those mirrors may still be intact in the various manor houses etc. that they left, or there may be a shattered mirror in each such structure - I haven't decided yet.
(Presumably, there's a magic-mirror-maker somewhere in Brevoy to create and deliver these things - or maybe Nyrissa makes them herself and has a minion who can deliver them, I haven't decided that part yet.)
I should note that the other consequence of this storyline is, assuming the PCs defeat Nyrissa at the end of chapter 6, they'll find a whole bunch of soul jars with Rogarvians inside - including Choral! (After all, where else would he have gone when he departed Brevoy?) They'll have to decide whether or not to release the Rogarvians; doing so could plunge Brevoy into war (again?), but failing to do so would mean leaving all of them (including children) trapped forever. I expect that our campaign won't end when they defeat Nyrissa, it will only end after they deal with the aftermath of this decision, and determine the fates of their own nation and Brevoy/Issia/Rostland once and for all.
Wow Cintra that is awesome!!!, its ties up many loose ends and extends the campaign nicely. I'm stealing it, Thanks.
In my campaign one of the characters is a bastard of the house of Rogarvia and when he finds all the soul jars at the end he has additional option of only releasing his mother and father who disowned him to prove his lineage and leaving him as one of the only surviving members of the house of Rogarvia. It would be pretty evil and I would force an alignment change but he’s a Magus so it won’t impact his stats much.
Also if they release Choral the conqueror he will immediately try to destroy the party and take command of all of Brevoy and then try and conquer the stolen lands.
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Biobeast - Thanks!
For my campaign, I figure there might be a Rogarvian heir or two still out there, although I haven't defined any yet. They need to have been "not at home" when the Vanishing occurred, and not somewhere that she would have discovered their presence to include them - which should be fairly simple to justify for your disowned PC.
Hassy - Regarding your last spoiler tag:
As far as the deja vu and timing issues...My PCs won't discover the Vanishing was related until much later, possibly not until they enter Nyrissa's home. So for my group, it will be more a foreshadowing/connecting of events rather than a "haven't we done this before?" situation.
If you like the idea, but the timing throws you off, just consider if there's any way for Nyrissa to steal the Oculus when the time is right. If not, she can still be responsible, just not by using the Oculus - taking everyone of a single bloodline is different from taking everyone in an area, after all, and I had to explain that away to make my version work.
As for background information, a few years ago, I started giving my players one- or two-page questionaires suited to the campaign. Here's the list of questions I used for Kingmaker. They're very wordy, because I've found I get better results if I explain my reason for asking each question. With 10-point Calibri font and limited response space, it fit onto two pages.
There is someone in Brevoy with whom you’ve had substantial conflict. Who is it? Why is there conflict between you? How does the conflict usually play out? The idea is to create a connection to someone back home that can be a source of friction.
Someone back home has been a substantial ally of yours; you get along very well. Who is it? Describe an occasion when the alliance came into play. The idea is to create a connection to someone back home that has been a positive influence for you. They need not belong to a PC class. Perhaps they will communicate news and rumors to you, or send new settlers or quests your way. They might even come to your assistance (or expect you to come to their assistance) in time of great need. OPTION: Briefly define up to three separate allies, each with a different relationship to you (parent/sibling/mentor/friend/colleague).
You carry a possession that has great meaning to you. What is it, and why is it so important? Preferably something other than a weapon, implement, armor, or standard gear. It is most interesting when it has a bit of story connected to it.
You have a secret that you hide from others (including the other PCs). What is this secret? e.g. A shameful failure or misdeed in your past that continues to haunt you; a bastard child; a broken betrothal; a fear or desire that affects your decisions. NOTE: This secret should affect the way you play your character, and/or reasonably be brought into play by the DM (eventually).
There is a troubling mystery for which you don’t know the answer. What is this mystery? e.g. A sibling (or your betrothed/ lover/ best friend/longtime rival/mentor) vanished while traveling abroad (or from home or their workplace); you lost something precious to you; an unusual object keeps reappearing in your possessions no matter how often you lose or destroy it; an animal or person keeps watching from a distance, though you never get close (or learn nothing useful when you do); you were once found wandering in the woods with no recollection of how you got there or what happened for a missing period of 10 days/2 weeks/2 months. NOTE: This should be a mystery your character wants to solve, that can reasonably be brought into play by the DM at some point in the campaign; the DM has creative control of this mystery’s final answers.
You have a particular patron who suggested you for the exploration of the Greenbelt. Who is it? What is their interest in this project? What is it about your relationship that makes them think you’ll be a particularly good agent for their interests? The intent is to give you a connection to someone with a political axe to grind. Possible “interests” might include: stabilize the southern border as an future ally for Rostland against the north (Issia); report to someone whose loyalty is to the north (Issia); find means to help prevent civil war between Rostland and Issia; find valuable resources that can be exploited for profit by wealthy investors from Brevoy; represent a specific noble house or other person or group’s interests; OR, your patron might be someone who is politically connected and to whom you owe a debt, and you may not know their actual agenda at this time.
Describe your ideal spouse. This campaign will span years of game time – and many if not all PCs will eventually have families of their own. Assume this, and give some thought to how you want this to develop for your PC. You may already be betrothed or have a beloved. You may already be married. More likely, you will find your true love during the campaign – but it is up to you as the player to help make this happen, both by being open to it, and by providing the DM with enough information to ensure that good candidates can be introduced. You are quite welcome to help create your NPC future spouse, within reason.
What do you like to do when you have down-time? What sorts of hobbies and interests does your PC have? The idea is to make your PC more rounded and interesting by thinking about things other than adventuring that he likes to do – and what sorts of businesses he’ll eventually be interested in promoting. Does he collect something? Make something? Play a musical instrument? Would he rather carouse in a tavern or read a book? Does he enjoy the theater? Dancing? Gambling? Fine food?
Define your family. You have some options here. Choose ONE, and provide the answer on the back of this page:
• Create your immediate family tree. Provide name and gender; for at least five still-living relatives (siblings, parents, grandparents, aunts/uncles, cousins), give a sentence-fragment comment about them or their relationship with you.
• Briefly define three to five members of your family who are (or may become) important to you. These may be immediate family or distant kin; provide appropriate names. You needn’t have a strong relationship with them (e.g. the titled cousin you’ve never met), but then you leave them to the DM to develop…
• If your background doesn’t allow for this many relatives, define caregivers and others who are your “effective family” i.e. people you grew up around, for better or for worse. This can be in combination with the above options (e.g. family tree shows two living relatives, and you list three people who were like family: your kindly but clueless nanny, your cruel tutor, and the saxophone player who lived under a nearby bridge and gave you your love of music.)
What non-Ruler posting(s) will you as a player be aiming for? For optimal player cooperation, aim for a listed role, and let the eventual “ruler” be chosen by the party for in-game reasons. Each role utilizes ONE of the two attributes listed.
• Councilor: WIS or CHA
• General: STR or CHA
• Grand Diplomat: INT or CHA
• High Priest: WIS or CHA
• Magister: INT or CHA
• Marshal: DEX or WIS
• Royal Assassin: STR or DEX
• Spymaster: DEX or INT
• Treasurer: INT or WIS
• Warden: STR or CON
In a weird turn of events, I have done this almost exactly, except
Woe, this worked brilliantly. After hours battling Nyrissa and finally taking her down. I mention that this ends the written part of the campaign the players thought they were just wrapping things up by releasing the Nobles from the house of Rogarvia. They do it at their castle with the grand diplomat releasing and welcoming them one by one explaining what happened. The Duke and Duchess are sitting on their thrones trying to impress all these released nobles. My player who was a bastard meets his father (a Rogarvian noble) for the first time who does remember his mother and welcomes him as a lost son.
Then the 86th soul jar gets opened and out pops an Ancient Red Dragon who says he is Choral the conqueror and everyone must immediately swear fealty to him or die. All the Rogarivian lords do so immediately after all he is why they ruled for 200 years. The party refuses thinking rightly so they will lose control of their kingdom and we stopped our session there. Next week we start the fight; the party with no buffs against choral as written in the pack of the AP. I think the party is going to get their lunch handed to them and they will eventually have to retreat. Choral will then take over the players kingdom and now we have more adventuring to do while the party attempts to reclaim their kingdom.
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Interesting development indeed.
However Choral didn't win the kingdom by being stupid or trying to chew more than he could. Why would he want to destroy the party? They saved him. More importantly, they are powerful and would make the best generals/agents he could hope for.
On the minus, they defied him in the open. Of course that can be excused in the long run because they were surprised by his nature. And if he can simply shrug off their assault and shock and awe them into an alliance, that would be even better for him.
The party probably is not high enough level to defeat him at this point, but with both sides unprepared, I wouldn't bet on it. Depending on how you want to develop him, I'd add a few character levels (cleric, druid, witch, or wizard seem appropriate, depending on how you want to portrait him) and let him simply weather the parties initial assault, concentrating on defense, if he feels he needs to act at all. He could also release his dragon friends/mates/allies/whatever from other soul jars; how would the party react to another two dragons? lol.
After he shrugs off their attacks, I'd grapple two spellcasters (everyone probably is within reach as combat starts), and then request (obviously sad at the unnecessary violence) that they immediately stop their attacks, using his aura to overawe people (and sending all NPCs running so they can negotiate in private).It might still end in combat with the players fleeing and then trying to regain their kingdom, but I believe Choral should at least attempt to negotiate. I'd go so far as to propose that the players act as his regents for their lifespan (a minor amount of time for him) and manage not only their kingdom, but all of Brevoy as well in his name. And maybe a lot more beyond the current borders. It would give him time to manage all his other plots and handle his rivals and whatever schemes they have put into place since his disappearance.
I don't know if your players would ever consider it, but it could make for interesting...
That's pretty interesting Old Drake.
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...Interesting development indeed.
However Choral didn't win the kingdom by being stupid or trying to chew more than he could. Why would he want to destroy the party? They saved him. More importantly, they are powerful and would make the best generals/agents he could hope for.
On the minus, they defied him in the open. Of course that can be excused in the long run because they were surprised by his nature. And if he can simply shrug off their assault and shock and awe them into an alliance, that would be even better for him.
The party probably is not high enough level to defeat him at this point, but with both sides unprepared, I wouldn't bet on it. Depending on how you want to develop him, I'd add a few character levels (cleric, druid, witch, or wizard seem appropriate, depending on how you want to portrait him) and let him simply weather the parties initial assault, concentrating on defense, if he feels he needs to act at all. He could also release his dragon friends/mates/allies/whatever from other soul jars; how would the party react to another two dragons? lol.
After he shrugs off their attacks, I'd grapple two spellcasters (everyone probably is within reach as combat starts), and then request (obviously sad at the unnecessary violence) that they immediately stop their attacks, using his aura to overawe people (and sending all NPCs running so they can negotiate in private).It might still end in combat with the players fleeing and then trying to regain their kingdom, but I believe Choral should at least attempt to negotiate. I'd go so far as to propose that the players act as his regents for their lifespan (a minor amount of time for him) and manage not only their kingdom, but all of Brevoy as well in his name. And maybe a lot more beyond the current borders. It would give him time to manage all his other plots and handle his rivals and whatever schemes they have put into place since his disappearance.
I don't know if your players would ever consider it, but it could make
I've yet to come up with a satisfying story to what happened to the Whole Rogarvia line not just Choral.
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...Interesting development indeed.
However Choral didn't win the kingdom by being stupid or trying to chew more than he could. Why would he want to destroy the party? They saved him. More importantly, they are powerful and would make the best generals/agents he could hope for.
On the minus, they defied him in the open. Of course that can be excused in the long run because they were surprised by his nature. And if he can simply shrug off their assault and shock and awe them into an alliance, that would be even better for him.
The party probably is not high enough level to defeat him at this point, but with both sides unprepared, I wouldn't bet on it. Depending on how you want to develop him, I'd add a few character levels (cleric, druid, witch, or wizard seem appropriate, depending on how you want to portrait him) and let him simply weather the parties initial assault, concentrating on defense, if he feels he needs to act at all. He could also release his dragon friends/mates/allies/whatever from other soul jars; how would the party react to another two dragons? lol.
After he shrugs off their attacks, I'd grapple two spellcasters (everyone probably is within reach as combat starts), and then request (obviously sad at the unnecessary violence) that they immediately stop their attacks, using his aura to overawe people (and sending all NPCs running so they can negotiate in private).It might still end in combat with the players fleeing and then trying to regain their kingdom, but I believe Choral should at least attempt to negotiate. I'd go so far as to propose that the players act as his regents for their lifespan (a minor amount of time for him) and manage not only their kingdom, but all of Brevoy as well in his name. And maybe a lot more beyond the current borders. It would give him time to manage all his other plots and handle his rivals and whatever schemes they have put into place since his disappearance.
I don't know if your players would ever consider it, but
My best bet was that whom ever he made a deal with came for payment.... I'm not sure why the whole line disappeared though. Unless he hid or ran to another plane of existence and whoever he crossed took it out on anyone with even a drop of Choral in them.
Interesting development indeed.
However Choral didn't win the kingdom by being stupid or trying to chew more than he could. Why would he want to destroy the party? They saved him. More importantly, they are powerful and would make the best generals/agents he could hope for.
On the minus, they defied him in the open. Of course that can be excused in the long run because they were surprised by his nature. And if he can simply shrug off their assault and shock and awe them into an alliance, that would be even better for him.
The party probably is not high enough level to defeat him at this point, but with both sides unprepared, I wouldn't bet on it. Depending on how you want to develop him, I'd add a few character levels (cleric, druid, witch, or wizard seem appropriate, depending on how you want to portrait him) and let him simply weather the parties initial assault, concentrating on defense, if he feels he needs to act at all. He could also release his dragon friends/mates/allies/whatever from other soul jars; how would the party react to another two dragons? lol.
After he shrugs off their attacks, I'd grapple two spellcasters (everyone probably is within reach as combat starts), and then request (obviously sad at the unnecessary violence) that they immediately stop their attacks, using his aura to overawe people (and sending all NPCs running so they can negotiate in private).It might still end in combat with the players fleeing and then trying to regain their kingdom, but I believe Choral should at least attempt to negotiate. I'd go so far as to propose that the players act as his regents for their lifespan (a minor amount of time for him) and manage not only their kingdom, but all of Brevoy as well in his name. And maybe a lot more beyond the current borders. It would give him time to manage all his other plots and handle his rivals and whatever schemes they have put into place since his disappearance.
I don't know if your players would ever consider it, but it could make for interesting...
Basically the oath of fealty was the him offering them to run their kingdoms as a dukedom to his greater kingdom and the party refused. There is also an alignment difference, the party members are either NG and LN, while Choral is CE. I'm playing him as utterly ruthless, if the party doesn't play by his rules they must be disposed off, he wants absolute obedience to his rule.
With regard to your point V.) I offer in refute The Aboleth Flowchart.
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I've yet to come up with a satisfying story to what happened to the Whole Rogarvia line not just Choral.
My best bet was that whom ever he made a deal with came for payment.... I'm not sure why the whole line disappeared though. Unless he hid or ran to another plane of existence and whoever he crossed took it out on anyone with even a drop of Choral in them.
I'd be glad to help you come up with a satisfying story (as I'm sure would many here), but the question is so open ended, that without any idea of where you want to take your campaign, it's unlikely any speculations will fit perfectly.
But let's try:
[/list][/list]...
- I.) There was no attack, conspiracy, or running. Choral casts as Sorcerer 19 (without bloodline) and has limited wish on his list.
[list]- 1) Choral knew a descendant was plotting against him and wished the line away. Now limited wish isn't powerful enough, but it could perhaps transport every member of a bloodline to a prison he constructed, and since he was stretching the powers of the spell, it took him along for the ride.
- 2) Choral was experimenting with an artifact he found and failed to correctly identify it.
[list]- a) The artifact was designed to cleanse an area of draconic blood. All dragon descendants in Brevoy disappeared that night, but in the turmoil, it was either missed completely or they were classified as clan Rogarvia bastards after disappearance, because they disappeared along with the family.
- b) The artifact was a sacrificial altar to a power beyond. It was created for devout followers to sacrifice themselves and their family - the magic followed the blood. Choral activated it without knowing what it was, and it got through his SR. Whether the line is dead or their souls are just captured and could still be saved would be up to you.
- c) The artifact was once created to share knowledge amongst family. When Choral activated it, it summoned every member of the bloodline and linked their minds. Everyone knew what everyone else was
We should expand on these.
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I assume you're already incorporating the noble house members listed in the Brevoy article (in the same issue as Stolen Land).
My Kingmaker campaign is nearing the end of Chapter 1 right now, but I'm planning a couple of things that might interest you.
First, I had each player fill out a Background Questionaire which included questions such as "You have a particular patron who suggested you for the exploration of the Greenbelt. Who is it? What is their interest in this project? What is it about your relationship that makes them think you’ll be a particularly good agent for their interests?" (Other questions asked for info on their immediate family, an ally and an enemy "back home in Brevoy," as well as a "troubling mystery for which they don't know the answer.")
I'm using the information from their backgrounds to supplement a guest list for a large gala party in Restov at which they will receive their charter to found their kingdom. For most of the NPCs attending, I'm using random tables from a variety of sources to create secret motivations and plot hooks. The PCs will probably only interact with a limited number of these hooks at the gala - but they might choose to recruit some of these NPCs as members of their ruling council, and they'll certainly have future opportunities to interact with the NPCs. (Some of the NPC plots are things that will just wait until the PCs stumble across them before I develop them further - a few, however, might continue to develop in the background.)
The second thing I'm planning involves the Vanishing. I'm putting this in spoiler, because it necessarily involves many specific plot elements from throughout the adventure path:
** spoiler omitted **...
I like this solution, it's incredibly elegant and ties the entire campaign together without negating anything. I might borrow this for my own game. Well done.
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I assume you're already incorporating the noble house members listed in the Brevoy article (in the same issue as Stolen Land).
My Kingmaker campaign is nearing the end of Chapter 1 right now, but I'm planning a couple of things that might interest you.
First, I had each player fill out a Background Questionaire which included questions such as "You have a particular patron who suggested you for the exploration of the Greenbelt. Who is it? What is their interest in this project? What is it about your relationship that makes them think you’ll be a particularly good agent for their interests?" (Other questions asked for info on their immediate family, an ally and an enemy "back home in Brevoy," as well as a "troubling mystery for which they don't know the answer.")
I'm using the information from their backgrounds to supplement a guest list for a large gala party in Restov at which they will receive their charter to found their kingdom. For most of the NPCs attending, I'm using random tables from a variety of sources to create secret motivations and plot hooks. The PCs will probably only interact with a limited number of these hooks at the gala - but they might choose to recruit some of these NPCs as members of their ruling council, and they'll certainly have future opportunities to interact with the NPCs. (Some of the NPC plots are things that will just wait until the PCs stumble across them before I develop them further - a few, however, might continue to develop in the background.)
The second thing I'm planning involves the Vanishing. I'm putting this in spoiler, because it necessarily involves many specific plot elements from throughout the adventure path:
** spoiler omitted **...
I wasn't quite sure if I wanted to use your Rogarvia story but it definitely lends itself quite well.
Great thread. I'm in Chapter 2 now and one of my PCs is an abandoned member of the Rogarvian line. He was out of Brevoy at the time and didn't speak Common so Cintra's plotline works well for why he wouldn't have disappeared too. He's now a 5th level cavalier and in New Stetven side-questing by checking out the family's abandoned villa. My goal is to feed him a little clue, but give him the sense that this is much bigger and beyond his current ability to handle or even comprehend.
Thanks so much!