My brother is building a world and he wants it to be a place where magic exists but is very rare in the civilized world (it's been outlawed and put down by the oppressive government). I'm afraid, though of how it will upset the balance between the power of caster/non-caster classes, since casting a spell in public could potentially get you arrested or lynched.
Any ideas on how to make it balanced? Anyone done this kind of thing before? Thanks.
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One of the games that I was involved in (as a player) did something quite similar many moons ago. It was a blast! Party had a sorcerer, a war-mage, and a hexblade, plus a rogue, a cleric, and a ranger. Yeah, we played the resistance attempting to overthrow the tyrannical theocracy that had proclaimed all arcane magic was the work of the devil. Great fun, but not for the faint-hearted.
Master Arminas
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I've played in such a campaign (female warlock with max bluff, disguise, invisibility). Had quite some fun.
Aside from the obvious 'nerf', it can be a great story hook/player challenge. You need to learn how to dodge the authorities (until you can overpower them) or how to play innocent.
Would fit an evil party: the "you've seen us, so we can't let you live" line.
Or get Still/Silent spell.
Feats that allow a spellcaster to make his/her/its spellcasting pass for something else.
there is also totally illegal vs not legal if you aren't part of the government/law-inforcement.
In one of the 3.5 Dark Sun articles in Dragon & Dungeon/Polyhedron, there were rules for spellcasters hiding their spellcasting. If you can find which issue that was and acquire a copy, it could be worth a read.
I have a world and campaign which is slowly going down those lines. The study of Magic has been banned in the main nation of the setting, but the practice is still allowed (although is very taboo and frowned upon in public). Sorcerers and the like exist (and I have retailored the Magus to be more like a Sorc than wizard) but they too are largely outcast and live in their own clans outside of the cities. It is very possible that magic is more accepted outside of the large centers of population or that people have a much more difficult time living without it.
If the setting bans magic practice, but not divine magic then the guards would likely have access to something approximating an anti-magic field (like an elite guard captain may be cleric-based or have access to anti-magic field scrolls etc.)
For the players they have to be well-informed going in as to what the setting is about. It provides a good hook along the lines of building a resistance or even down the evil line as the players could be a band of dangerous rebels, or the last of a dying group of evil magic users (maybe they belong to or support a group that once was the tyrannical magic government and formerly overthrown by the now magic-banning theocracy?)
It opens up a lot of new RP possibilities.
Yeah, the campaign would involve the PCs in a resistance (he hasn't told me much about it because i'm going to be a PC:)). But I have lots of DMing experience so i'm trying to help him on the world-building part. I'm excited about the whole "dodging the authorities, working covertly aspect" but i'm afraid some of our other players will not like the limiting of magic.
I thought giving all spellcasters the "Silent Spell" and/or "Still Spell" feats (maybe even without the cast-as-a-higher-level-spell part) automatically. . .since anyone trained in magic in that kind of society would certainly learn those things.
We had something similar in a home-brewed campaign, only it was sorcery that was made illegal, and wizards had to have a licence and be part of a sanctioned guild (a bit like the Warhammer world). Outside of the main cities and in the provinces of the centraL empire, sorcerers were seen as heroes and freedom fighters (empire was Lawfull Evil) partially because of the greatest and most beloved folk-hero of them all was a chaotic good sorcerer(10) dragon disciple(10) who spent most of his earlier career pretending to be a bard/cleric.
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I think this campaign may be exactly what you're looking for... IMO, it's one of the best settings to ever hit the market, and the one I'm using for my current game.
I also recommend visiting the Midnight fan site.
Well, if both arcane and divine magic are banned, then I'd play a wizard in a heartbeat.
Just survive till you get fly and invisibility, and what is gonna stop you from doing whatever you want? No one can fly or see invisible ;)
In FFG's Midnight, only the clerics of the evil god Izrador have access to divine spells. Channelers (a new class) have access to a limited selection of arcane spells, and being caught with magic or casting spells is punishable by death. The priests of the dark god have demonic familiars that can sense magic and hunt down magic users, so channelers are always looking over their shoulders. Spells like teleport and wish do not exist, many evocation and conjuration spells are not available at low levels, and channelers can cast a more limited number of spells per day than can arcane casters in regular Pathfinder (the Midnight spellcasting system is point-based, rather than slot based). Channelers can also burn some of their Constitution points to cast extra spells or make use of metamagic feats. Characters from all classes can learn some low level magic through the use of feats.
The system needs to be tweaked in order to work perfectly with Pathfinder, but some dedicated fans at www.againsttheshadow.org have been doing a great job with class/rules updates.
The Midnight line had a total of 18 products released, most of which are available as inexpensive PDFs at www.rpgnow.com.
Check it out!
Midnight is FUN but not for the feint hearted.
Indeed!
My players would probably agree that the campaign I'm running (and the world itself) is probably the toughest they've ever played in. But we've been playing for three years now (at a snail's pace) and everyone is still into it.
I have to agree, though -- it isn't for everyone.
My brother is building a world and he wants it to be a place where magic exists but is very rare in the civilized world (it's been outlawed and put down by the oppressive government). I'm afraid, though of how it will upset the balance between the power of caster/non-caster classes, since casting a spell in public could potentially get you arrested or lynched.
Any ideas on how to make it balanced? Anyone done this kind of thing before? Thanks.
Trust me, low magic can work. You end up with parties with a lot more melee characters/archers. More LOTR if you will.
It is good in a few ways, less magic item accounting, no option for magic shopping. Any magic is deep in tombs, dungeons, far away from the cities, or greedily held by elites. The players can grab it through adventuring, they can learn spells off enemies slain, but they can't flaunt it, and it adds a bit of sneakiness to their activities.
Spellcasters become very rare characters to encounter, this can allow more characterisation--give them more distinct personalities. Dark souls did this with its rare spellcasters. Each one is probably a bit insane, weird, and hasn't talked to many people over the years. Unless they are from some sort of tribe far away from central authority. It pushes spellcasters to hide what they can do, or become hermits. I kind of like your brother's idea.
I can see it being a world disliked by many on these forums, there are a lot of people here that love spellcasters. Good luck to your brother!
It would also highly depend on what the PCs are doing -- are they the mage hunters or the spell casters in hiding? The differences in the two campaign wise would be huge in and of itself even if it was done in the same setting.
I played in one some time ago and loved it. Casters all took still, silent, and eschew materials. They were also careful on their spell selections. Non-visible and non-audible effects or something that could be explained some other way.
Tried to run one with my current group and it was a dismal failure. My current group seems to only be happy with a really high level of magic and magic items (several +2 weapons at 3rd level). {sigh}
The pitfall to avoid with a non/low/illegal magic game is the power of the enemies and "only I, as the DM/GM, is allowed to play casters".
Basically, if you want dragons and others to be within 1000 miles of the borders, you need good explanations on why they haven't destroyed the place yet.
Hey, thanks for all the advice everyone. Haha i'm even more excited about it now. It might take our PCs a bit to get used to be it could be really fun. I think there will be magic in the world beyond-we'll have to come up with a reason why Dragons, etc. haven't destroyed the place. Maybe some uber-NPC is in charge and can keep things inline. Or maybe the empire is secretly run by some evil dragons. Who knows?
As for psyonics, i've never played with them before. Have to check it out.
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I've done a game before where magic was illegal. Players wondered how they could play wizards and not get burned at the stake. I then explained that magic was about as illegal as alcohol was illegal during Prohibition.
Characters then started looking for the "Spell-Easies" as they dubbed them, the pubs where there was a magical mark on the pub sign only visible to wizards letting them know there was a back room where they could engage in magic and nobody would need to know.
It was also a highly legalistic society where there were actual trials with lawyers and everything for anyone accused of witchcraft. Since Detect Magic is itself a spell, this was inadmissible in court and moreover saying that you'd used it was confession of a crime.
What this ended up with was a lot of wizards doing subtle magic and avoiding the flashy stuff like Fireball. Also, most of the people executed for witchcraft were actually guilty of tax evasion.
... I think there will be magic in the world beyond-we'll have to come up with a reason why Dragons, etc. haven't destroyed the place...
A couple of common themes are: magic is illegal for everyone (except of course the government), divine spells (at least from the 'right' gods) are gifts of the gods not magic so are allowed, some god has taken an interest in the region and doesn't let the whatever in very often or for very long.
This concept screams "Bladebound Kensai Magus" to me.
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Make sure your brother makes a few things clear. Namely, what are the visual and or auditory effects of spells. Some are obvious, some are not. If i cast charm person on someone, how obvious is it I cast a spell if someone is looking at me. What if they arent looking at me? That isnt something nailed down by the rules. Sure someone with spellcraft can sort it out, but does that mean theres glowing waves of magic around me?
Also consider ongoing effects. If I cast bless on my party from behind an alley, do we then look like glowing balls of magic? Or is the effect less visible After the spell has been cast?
Then Make sure he makes clear where spell like and super natural abilities fall into both in terms of a law, and the above mentioned questions. When the magus uses his arcana points to make his sword a +2 keen rapier, is there a visible effect? What about a paladin using lay on hands? What about a bards song? Would the 'authorities' react to a bards song? He has to consider all that kind of stuff so players know what they need to hide and how they might do it.
He should also take a look at some of the 3.5 skill tricks from complete scoundrel. Specifically he should consider allowing 'concealed casting' which allowed you to make a sleight of hand check to conceal the fact that you were casting a spell, or coming up with something similar to hide that you are casting a spell. Maybe some application of bluff or stealth?
why not just do it like in Baldurs Gate II, have spellcasting (or only arcane) banned in town (except if you got permission). Because, really, how would you inforce that in a dungeon somewhere?
Also, how do you know if it is magic if you can't cast spells? How do you counter invisibility?
Fine idea, but a lot of things to think about. I had a GM who outlawed spellcasting and weapon use in most towns, so you had to wear a red ribbon around your fingers as a spellcasters, or around your weapons, to show you're not gonna use them.
But it seems you want perhaps more like the dark ages, with witch-burnings and everything.
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I'd think that anti-magic societies spells like my improved arcane mark would be known.
Also the 'tier' of magic's illegality is something to consider, and why it's illegal.
Some examples
- All magic outlawed. This is the most difficult. Especially with divine magic. Those pesky divine casters show up in the oddest places, and have such useful spells. This is actually harder for clerics, IMC. Since they have their holy symbols and need them for casting.
- One type of magic outlawed. Arcane magic is evil. (non-druidic) Divine magic comes from 'invader clerics' and must be purged, etc.
- One type of caster is outlawed. Wizards have their schools and teaching methods, Clerics are guided by their gods. Magi have their own order etc. But those sorcerers are wildmages (Madwands?) with no sort of structure in their power. Bards are more insideous since they hide their spells via music, etc. (Possibly characters with the appropriate feats and rogue talents might also qualify. Races like gnomes would be shunned too.
- One type of school is outlaws. Evocation is illegal because it is destructive, conjuration is evil as it weakens the barrier between this world and the next. Abjuration is evil because it allows the caster to defy the gods' will. Divination is evil because no man should know his future, etc etc.
The narrower the scope, the easier it is for the authorities to persecute. If evocation is outlawed, Ned the Necromancer can get the authorities to overlook his more 'questionable' actions (like corpse stealing) if he can out Evan the Evoker. Wizards would happily challenge sorcerers to keep their hold on power, etc.
Also what is the sentence for magic? Is it "burn them all, let gods sort them out" or is it "time off for good behaviour"? Think fo Dragon Age. The mages are kept in the tower where they can do their research, but apostates exist and are hunted by the Templars. So it's kind of death or life imprisonment. (I assume not all the mages you encounter on the road are apostates, and 'trustee mages' seem to have some freedoms).
Just some thoughts.
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Ok, this thread's given me some writing ideas. I'll share two for critique.
Scholar of the forbidden (feat)
Prerequisite Spellcraft 3 ranks.
You know more about the forbidden arts than most, and they have less sway over you.
Effect: Pick one group that is declared illegal in the campaign setting (arcane casters, spontaneous casters, divine casters, etc.) against spells cast by that group you receive a +1 bonus to saving throws. In addition you gain a +2 bonus on spellcraft checks against that group of casters.
Special: If you ever gain spells from your selected group, you lose the saving throw bonuses of this feat.
Arcane Rebirth (spell)
Casting Time 1 hour
Components V,S,M (blank spellbook)
Range Touch
Target One spontaneous caster
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell resistance yes
Invented by magic colleges to remove the unpredictability of spontaneous arcane spellcasters, arcane rebirth forces a spontaneous caster to go through a painful transformation and makes him a prepared arcane caster. The target must be immobile for the duration of the spell but need not be willing. At the end of the hour long casting, the target must make a Will save or be rebuilt as a prepared caster. (sorcerers become wizards of equal level, while bards must now learn and prepare spells from spellbooks, bard spells per day remain unchanged) The target’s spells known are mystically transcribed to the spellbook used in the spell’s casting, starting with the lowest level spells known. If the spellbook runs out of pages before all the spells are transcribed, the excess spells known are lost. (though the character may add spells to their spellbook following the same rules for wizards). The reborn caster now uses Intelligence for their primary casting stat. After the spell is completed, the caster is exhausted.
Once completed, this transformation may only be undone by wish or miracle or deity level magic.
I love the idea. Dotting, and planning on thinking and inputting more later.