RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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My friend and I are opening a game shop here in Monterey, CA and we want to have tables for people come in and play games on. We like the Gamer Chic tables, but they are a bit expensive for out tastes, and we are not sure all the bells and whistles will be used or appreciated.
We are looking into our options, but we are not against building our own tables.
My question to you is:
What do you like in your game tables?
What would like to see in your perfect game store tables? What would it look like, feel like, play like?
I did see the discussion about tables for under $300, and that has been helpful. This is more about building our own tables and what features would be good for a game store table.
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make them wider then a typical table. About 4 feet wide. Average sitting person can reach comfortable about 2 feet across a table (model train and wargamming standar), make sure the table has that kind of space on it. My group uses a dry erase board and unfortunately I dont have a table wide enough where there is space on either side of it when it is laid on the table, which is a pain for any players sitting directly in front of it.
As a related item but not actually a table, those little stands people use for eating on a couch are awesome for dms that need an additional space to rest a monster manual or module but dont want to put anything else directly in front of them (i keep one just off to my left when I dm). A couple of those would be helpful for all kinds of gaming, not just rpgs.
Recessed spots for rolling dice. We have all had dice roll off the table. A slight dip in portions of the table to roll dice with less chance of them going off the side of the table would be awesome.
If you can fit 2 or 3 Flip Mats on the surface side-by-side-by-side while still leaving space for drinks, dice, and character sheets, that would be ideal.
Now personally, I prefer a table that is coffee table height as opposed to one that is dining room table height. The reason for this is that (as a GM), it's a lot easier to get off a couch or Ottoman in order to adjust the minis than to push myself back from a table. Also, when the map is at a lower level like that, it is easier for GM and player alike to see the map at more of a top-down angle than edge on. They can also get up to buy drinks and snacks without as much disruption.
Another reason I prefer this setup is that passers-by can more easily observe a game without looming over-your-shoulder like they must when you are seated at a taller table or (God forbid) on a bar-stool. It makes for a more inviting, more social atmosphere and reduces the CreepyGeek™ factor.
Of course, there's nothing to say you couldn't start with 3 tables: coffee-table, dining-room table, and bar-height and see what your customers gravitate towards. If everyone seems to prefer a table of a certain height, then you can always adjust, the key is making certain the legs can be detached (i.e. via a wing-nut, etc.) so they can easily be replaced.
As another thought, RustOleum makes a paint that forms a dry-erase surface. Coat the top of your tables and lap-desks with that and everyone instantly has reusable notes. Then stock and sell dry-erase markers in your shop. (Heck, sell lap desks with dry-erase tops too! :)
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I've run games at a local convention and, at one of the hotels they'd used for a few years, they had 6 foot round tables. I absolutely loved them. There was ample room for everyone to sit, you could put a good sized map/display/whatever in the middle that everyone can see and have equal access to (no one pointing at the map saying, "Move my miniature to that square... no.. that square... no... wait.. yeah.. stop! THAT SQUARE!") while keeping room around the edges for character sheets, dice, etc.
I'd be careful about purchasing any high-end custom made game table. Our gaming store has one and our gamer group does not like it.
I like the circular table idea, but that isn't practical for the size and shape of most game stores. Still two normal sized foldout tables side by side seems to be a very usable and comfortable size with enough room for folks to put their stuff around the edges and enough space for a standard game mat in the middle. So if you do build special tables (or have them constructed) that's a pretty good model for the size you should look for.
While I think a standard coffee-table height is too low, I would be OK with a table that was six or so inches lower than a standard dining room table.
If you really wanted to blow folks minds with your brilliant anticipation of modern RPGamer needs, you'd incorporate electrical outlets at strategic locations around the bottom outside edge of the table so people could plug in their laptops. If you can put outlets directly in the floor under the table to avoid running any cables across the floor that would be really nice.
Oh, and be sure you have a free wireless internet access router.
I like the idea of making them out of whiteboard material. Heck go full hog and have a 1" square grid pattern on them...
A nice feature would be a fold or pullout extension on one end of the table for the GM to have extra space for materials.
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I would say definitely have the play surface at least 4 foot across. With Additional 6 inches or so on each side for players. Personal opinion.
You mentioned Geek CHic.
They have a sale going on right now of in stock items.
The "Portal" or "Spartan" to me are reasonably priced. At least that is what I would get if I did it again instead of the "Sultan" I have.
THe Portal is about the thickness of a regular kitchen table. I saw some of their tables in this range that were going for $2,100. THese were 4' X 6' play area (actual width 4'7" X 6'8").
The Spartan to me though would be a great game store table. Storage underneath for different terrain that is built at the store...
My Own Opinion anyways.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Okay, just to list the ideas here for easy viewing (some of these are my own ideas):
While I know not all of these ideas will be able to be used, I like them all so far. We have a few family members who are good craftsmen and friends or contacts that can supply the materials cheaply. Right now, we don't know our space limitations because we don't have a space at the moment. We hope to have at least space for two tables, but our hopes are for five or six tables.
The space we are looking at currently has, in addition to the main store front, two back rooms (and a bathroom!) We will probably take out the backrooms because we don't really need them but there has been talk of turning one or both into private gaming rooms. What are people's thoughts on private rooms and the features that would work in them?
Surface of table is a material you can use wet erase markers on. (Wet erase works better on table surfaces.)
The only caution I'd add here is that if it's a surface on which wet-erase works but dry-erase does not then you greatly increase your chances of having someone permanently mess up one of your tables. AFAIK, most dry-erase surfaces should also work with wet-erase, but not vice-versa.
What are people's thoughts on private rooms and the features that would work in them?
- If you want to keep your costs down and maximize the space in your main area, perhaps the private room could be where you have the more comfortable furniture and better accessories.
- For lighting, I'd recommend either dimmable soft white lighting (I have seen dimmable soft-white LEDs at Sam's Club, they do exist), or perhaps the use of rope lights around the perimeter of the ceiling. This provides diffuse lighting which will be easier on the eyes and more atmospheric.
- I'd also suggest that the private room should have the means for someone to hook up to a sound system if they like so that the GM can play mood music from their laptop or MP3 player.
- Add some sound-baffling material to the walls so that the group isn't disturbed by any Yu-gi-oh type kids in the main area, and don't let people squat in that room if they aren't an asset to your store. (If I see people who I wouldn't want to sit on MY furniture making a mess of such a room, I damn sure won't want to use it.)
- Ensure that it has good ventilation. Gamer BO aside, some of us get claustrophobic when the air gets stale even if everyone smells of roses and peppermint.
- If there are any windows looking into the private room, use half-silvered glass so the people in there don't feel like they are freaks on display.
- Staff at the store permitting, you might even keep an intercom in there in case the GM or players need additional snacks, etc. which can be billed to their tab and paid when they leave.
Essentially, I'd see it as selling a service. Whether or not it's viable... well I'm not the one with the business plan, but those are all things I'd like to see anyway — particularly to be coaxed out of the comfort of my own living room. :)
We are looking into our options, but we are not against building our own tables.
When we had our store, we used standard width tables, mostly. It worked well for CCGs and RPG's. We'd put two tables together long-side to long-side if needed.
Another thing we did was make table-toppers. Now, my husband over did what we had in the store, but if you want something light ....
Take a regular 3x6 table, measure twice, and build a frame that slips over the table and rests snugly. Use 1x1's or 1x2's for this part. Then get melamine or some VERY lightweight plywood and glue and screw onto the frame. Keep tablecloths and felt on hand to switch out between tabletop RPGs and miniature gaming. We had some blue sheets we used as tablecloths for ocean settings (Pirates! was big back then) and several shades of felt for miniatures. We also had some black tablecloths we used in the store and took with us for our display tables at conventions.
Do it right and it should be lightweight, cheap, and sturdy. A little sweat equity is what gaming stores are built on!
As for private rooms ... if you have the space, have one. Rooms are very versitile ... but I would have them be reservation only, and I'd charge a minimal fee. The GREAT thing about having a game run at your store is the exposure that OTHERS get to it. You see a bunch of people playing an RPG, miniatures, or board game, and having fun, it's an easy sell.
And if you have two rooms, for goodness sake! One needs to be a stockroom/office! You /WILL/ have office work you need to do - from finances, to calling suppliers and customers! You will want a private and QUIET space to do that from! Depending on how much stock you want to keep on hand, and how big the room is ... you could combine the stock room and the office.
As for sound ... my husband's main job is in IT. So he was lucky enough to get the foam that hard drives are shipped in. We put together three 2x4's of gridwall, and hot-glued the foam on it as a sound barrier. It worked so well, we were going to make a few more to put between tables.
(Real life and disagreements about budgets got in the way of that plan)
You can find used gridwall all over the place. And if you know anyone who works in enterprise IT, the foam is likely EASY to get. Poor man's sound barriers. But it's cheap and easy!
You also want to make your store friendly and comfortable, not just for gamers, but for everyone. The biggest sales we had were families walking in, talking to our sales staff about the Big Box board games, and dropping $200 a year on new games. You need to have people who are nice, clean, and energetic to explain and demonstrate the games you have on hand, or ones you can special order.
And lastly, while I LOVE comics .... they take too much space. Maybe have pull boxes for loyal customers and just get a few things in, other wise, do not mix gaming and comics. (Or, at least, stick to a budget and don't overspend on the comics and no where to put the extras!)
I am going to respond inline here:
Okay, just to list the ideas here for easy viewing (some of these are my own ideas):
Tables at least 4 feet wide.
Yes, this is a good idea, but takes up a lot of room if you are having a CCG tourny. Not to mention, not ideal for CCGs at all. CCG's are crack for kids. You will want places for this guys to play, get hyped up, then want to spend more money with you.
Have folding TV trays available (Already had that on a list.)
Good idea, but make sure you have a place to store them. And when someone is done with them, give them back. Do a 'check out' akin to the library where when they are done, they have to return it, or they pay $5 for a new one. This way, they bring it back and clean up for you!
Recessed spots for dice rolling, or at least higher lips on the table so dice rolled on table tend to stay on table.
A LOT OF WORK!!!!
Varying heights of tables. Slightly lower then dinner table height seems ideal.
A LOT OF WORK! Though ... I would do standard table sizes. The idea sounds good on paper, but start building these tables and you'll be ready to just go buy tables after the first two.
If you want the styling of having tables of varying sizes ... then I would just buy some bar-height tables from the scratch and dent section of a furniture store.Surface of table is a material you can use wet erase markers on. (Wet erase works better on table surfaces.)
You can get this at Home Depot, Lowes, etc. They have a white vinyl melamine.
Round shapes (not really ideal for limited space shops) or squatter rectangle shapes (like 4 ft. x 5 ft.)
Rectangle, definitely. Round is convenient for cons, etc. But CCGs and some boardgames SUCK on the round tables.
Electrical outlets either built into the table or accessible under the table.
ZOMG!!!!!! Are you INSANE?! Electrical is TRICKY! Just make sure the shop follows code. Usually that's a plug every 6 feet or so. Buy 6-plug surge protectors and affix them to the walls if you must.
Free Wireless in the shop (Already on our list.)
A curtsey. Good.
Fold or pullout extensions on one or two ends of the table to give GM or player extra space.
*FLAIL* How much time are you planning to spend on EACH of these tables? 50-60 hours? Or 100?
Spare folding tables and chairs for bigger events.
A /MUST/.
(Lifetime or Lifetime rip-off tables are good. That molded plastic. Or see if there is a store in your area that sells used furniture for stores, etc.)Clear plastic top that you could lift up and place maps under. The plastic top could be removed and replaced with either a top with 1" grid or a hex grid, and possibly other types of tops. (inspired by Geek Chic tables)
... ... ... !!!!!! Wow. Expensive and ... wow. A LOT of work. Frankly, some of the more extensive things about these tables are things you can do as your store grows. But to start with ... you won't have the capital.
Removable but sturdy table legs of different sizes.
... Why?
Attachable cup holders (I like the idea, but I am not sure of how good of one it is.)
Uh ... no. Again, work and time. Also, trust me, make a rule: If it doesn't have a screw-lid, it doesn't come in the store. Your product and tables and carpet/flooring will thank you.
Have small dry erase boards available, and possibly allow them to be attached to the table.
Do able. Actually, not a bad idea to start with. Look into the cheap, lightweight easels, too, if you have the money, to hold said dry erase boards. Or, have them on the wall, and arrange your tables where the head of the table is beneath said board.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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I am going to respond inline here:
Everything...
Thanks for the feedback from all the points.
Tables are not that hard to make, even with some of the features you thought would take hours to do. Me and the guy I am working with both have connections and experience with crafts like these. That being said, a budget is a budget, and once we have figured out fully what we can afford, it might just turn out that we can't afford this project right now. We are fine with that. We just don't want to rely on folding tables.
I have a few ideas how to build a good table with some of the bells and whistles (just the practical ones) while still keeping the design simple and affordable. In fact, I worry more about it looking like crap when I finish then anything else.
If you guys are building the tables check out Avengers ultimate game table they look really cool and they have the blueprints online for like 10 bucks
2x8 tables are great. You can fit multiple card games on them. They fit most board games fine (usually 2). You can comfortably reach across the entire thing. The folding ones are durable, portable, and disposable, all important qualities. 2 of them can be put together for wargaming (standard table is 4x6 for Warhammer, 4x4 for Warmachine,) which you want to encourage at your store. The extra ft on the ends is great for Warhammer, where you can place models in reserve off the game space. For RPGs, you would put 2 together. They may feel a little long for it, and 4x6 would be better usually, but the extra space for wargaming is huge, and wargaming can be a big source of revenue. On a 4x8 table you can easily cram 4 magic games or comfortably sit 7 people for a RPG. 4x6 can feel more cramped with RPGs.
A few circular folding card tables could be good. They work well for RPGs and larger card games/board Be careful you don't get tables that are too large, because that reduces their usefulness a lot. If a short friend can't reach the middle easily, its too large.
The folding tray tables are a great idea. Just make sure you don't care about them. They will break/be knocked down.
Get some standard 4x4 or 4x6 wet erase mats. Expect to go through them on a decently regular basis. 4x6 green rolls work well for wargaming, but it seems like the modular 2x2 terain blocks is gaining favor and you may want to invest in a set or two.
I would seriously caution against large wooden tables. Mobility is a big factor unless you have a lot of space. You want to be able to set up for a large event easily, but not be crowded most of the time, making folding tables very useful. The ability to switch between different event types is important, and different events have different needs. Who knows, you may even be interested in having events that need your tables out of the way, like a LARP.
Also, most people will not care about how nice your tables are. Any mobile parts you include, like the fold-out tray for the DM, will break. Someone will leave the tray out and then someone else will walk into it, or the GM will leave it out while he stands up and it will bend the tracks (I speak from experience on this one). I would caution against having anything that sticks out from the table for these reasons. You will have a lot of people, some of whom you would rather not have in your store, playing at these tables.
Most of the time people will be too lazy to actually adjust the table to a different purpose (like you adjustable leg height idea.)
Many GMs will find recess areas for dice to be anoying. Its harder to see what people across the table are rolling. No mater what you do, people will be fiddling their dice and drop them. This wont prevent that.
I know it sounds like I am raining on your parade, but I honestly feel like simple is better for you. Versatility is important.
Another thing you will want to think about: how will you lay out your space with tables.
How will it be laid out on a normal day (how many tables will you regularly have games on)
How will it be laid out on a normal, small event (may need 1 or 2 more tables, but don't want anything to feel crowded)
How will it be laid out for a tournament (you can get away with much less free space because the large tournament is its own draw)
Also think about how much space you want between tables. A single person aile is anoying but acceptable for a magic tournament. Wargame players will be constantly moving arround the table though, so you need at least enough room for 2 people between them, preferably more since the games take more time. Think about how much space any displaced chairs will take up when you push 2 tables together to convert from magic to an RPG.
Will your tables be in the main room where the product is? Will you have a seprate space for events? Will you have both? A few tables in the main room can be set up for more generic, larger games and then you can have a back room for tournaments/ccgs. I've seen this work well in a number of stores. It shows people in the store for casual days, and prevents the storefront from getting overcrowded in heavy days. I can't tell you how annoyed I have been at 1 store during magic days trying to buy warhammer minis because tables were blocking the merchandise.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Well, it turns out our area is pretty darn expensive for brick and mortar stores right now, so we are going to be postponing the store until we can have a bit more of a cushion in our funds. We can start up, and probably make it for a few months, but we are not sure past that.
The table, though, might still be made just for fun and for a personal gaming room. Who knows.
Great advice still, and thank you all for it.