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He wants to live and standing next to a paladin is a solid plan. You would show as evil untill 4th level so you can turn from you dark past and become a neutral anti hero, or you can no offend the paladins alignment. The Paladin can travel and work with evil characters to battle a greater evil. So as long as you keep the evil quiet you should be good. You can lie, cheat, steal, just don't get caught, but when you do and you will, apologize and roll bluff to convince them that you did it for a noble reason. Remember evil is clever or dead.
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Also if the "you're evil" card is played on you. Calmly asked if they've any proof of your evil deeds, then ask for proof of their good deeds. Take the moral high ground.
"I have to damn my soul so you can be heroes!" Then roll bluff to make yourself cry.
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As an experiment, I rolled up a random character (dice rolls to determine class, race, etc. - everything but ability scores and skill rank distribution), and got a neutral evil character. The group is good, including a paladin.
Since you've already made exceptions (ability scores and skill rank distribution), you already have precedent to make another exception and pick an alignment (or roll again until you get one) that is compatible with the paladin player's character choice.
Put another way, since you've already made exceptions, you really can't use 'but that's what I rolled randomly for alignment!' as an excuse to attempt to float an evil alignment past the paladin player.
Once the paladin player decided to play a paladin, and the rest of the group / GM said 'sure,' that choice was locked in. Nobody gets to play an evil character. A vast number of role-playing choices that would otherwise have been possible will now end with inter-party conflict, PVP and / or ruined evenings of what was supposed to be fun.
Shrug and move past it. Play one of the ten billion interesting not-evil character concepts out there, and have fun.
I need a good reason why this character would be compelled to work with the group and not double-cross them if I wanted to run it.
There's as many reasons why a selfish character wouldn't betray *every single person he meets* as there are why good people don't drop everything and devote their lives to helping *every single person they meet.*
Just because you have an alignment doesn't mean that you are a mindless slave to it.
But, again, Paladin. So don't bother. The rules actually require this to end in tears (paladin + evil dude = no team), so just save any cool ideas you have for rogues-with-hearts-of-rusty-iron for a game where someone hasn't already decided to play a paladin.
I think your character could justify adventuring with a "good" group according to how his "evil" manifests. From TV, Dexter is a serial killer hunting other serial killers. From Anne Rice, Marius is a vampire who preys exclusively on "the evil-doer". Maybe your character has a serious axe to grind and sees the "good" party members as possible allies in his blood quest. Remember, every truly great villain sees himself as a misunderstood hero doing what is right. Heck, the paladin might even agree with you - to a point!
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Well first thing you can do is chuck the assumption that "evil" alignment guys are bound to double cross the party. Evil characters have friends and family they care about too. You have to buy in to the idea its a group game so your character needs some investment to make the game work. Unless, of course, you think causing constant strife with the party is fun.
I have done this a few times in games and have a couple of examples of evil working with the party. First time believe it or not I played a neutral evil criminal alongside a Paladin. The GM did some hard railroading to start the game. All the PCs were framed and therefore had to work together to clear their names. This gave us the opportunity to play out the law man and the criminal troupe and was a lot of fun. We came across an old building housing some crooks who used children to pick pocket people like Oliver Twist. We needed to get them out and my character suggested that we start the building on fire and that will send them out. "No there are children in there!" was the paladin's reply. "Fine we will do it hard way. /eyeroll" from the neutral evil guy. There was a really interesting back and fourth banter during the entire encounter especially when the children started throwing daggers at the Paladin lol.
Another character was evil because he was hopelessly selfish and a coward. He fell for temptation and was reckless with disregard to his actions. He hated the way he was but he didn't have the strength to change. During the campaign he forged relationships with the PCs to try and change the way he was. It was very compelling role play. I do understand that this is pretty particular a lot of gamers refuse to play anything but a "big damn hero" or a "muwhahahaha evil guy." Just wanted to highlight that, despite this character being despicable by campaign end he was a pretty good guy and the other PCs took satisfaction in helping him develop that way.
Just have a good goal, but be willing to do almost anything to accomplish it. I've had CE villians whose goal was bringing down a LE criminal syndicate or a NE druid who wanted to establish a druid order in the lands of an evil empire that had made being a druid illegal. Not all evil characters have to kick puppies for fun.
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Make as part of your backstory that you are a friend/relative/army buddy of the paladin, and that relationship is more important to you than almost anything else.
Also, make sure the paladin player is willing to play along. If you can't get that agreement, don't even bother trying because it will end badly.
Once the paladin player decided to play a paladin, and the rest of the group / GM said 'sure,' that choice was locked in. Nobody gets to play an evil character.Can't stress enough how much I disagree with this.
Set is right though. I consider that a fault of the class personally, but it's one of the sacred cows people have for the Paladin.
I think people should compromise whenever possible with their characters.
For example, I'm playing a gunslinger who's nemesis is the Lord of Rats. A new player, unaware of my character, made a Ratfolk Witch. We're trying to figure it out, and it seems to be ending with a Geas on his character (which I think is unfair to him, but he said he was fine with it).
The only thing is the code allows for allying temporarily against a greater evil. And after that, the Paladin is probably gonna have to come for you, which is a sour ending to an arc/game.
Seems to be more of a depiction of 'creative dissonance' than an actual 'paladins must slay evil' etc. An extension of 'my character hates witches', 'hey guys I want to play a witch'. Too many examples to name. Always ends in funny and/or catastrophic ways when these opposing archetypes and shoehorned into a quest together.
As for Paladins: take the Paladins of Sarenrae for example. They'd rather redeem than destroy someone on the wrong path right? Unredeemable evils like Demons or Ghouls, a evil soul is not. They can be saved and should be spared unless their lives would cause others suffering If the evil character hasn't committed any provable crimes then a LG cleric would have moral qualms about slaying them. If the NE characters just made some bad decisions in life, or their world view is tainted from experience... Wouldn't the Paladin first try to show them the right path and redeem them, before declaring them to be lost causes and slaying them?
I think a lot of this is down to the old roleplaying cliche's of the extremist' good' paladin and the psychotic 'evil' rogue or what not. How many movies can you think of where theres characters with opposing morals that clash in pursuit of some goal. It's the clash of these disparate but strong personalities that really make a good party dynamic.
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So if the character shows evil on detect evil the paladin is required to kill him? What if a person that does show as evil commits an evil act like killing a party member because his evil?
Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.
The Paladin avoids, if the evil character is subtle and acts in a manner that does not offend the paladins code, there is no issue. A chaotic good character with his open disregard for lawful authority is as likely to offend the paladin as a pragmatic antihero who justifies his actions in the name of justice.
Example: Dangerous prisoner is very calm on his way to his trial. Reason evil character poisoned him to keep him quiet, paladin is relived that the villian has come to accept his fate and has stopped fighting.
"Don't ask and I won't lie to you. I do that which must be done and that you can not. We will not speak of this again, my friend."
Sorry for the thread-jack...
We had a player in our campain who constaintly played evil or evil-like charecters. On more then one occasion he started PvP. Eventually we had to kick him out. He's back in our starwars game playing a Jedi. He told me that if his Jedi dies (and it sounded that be wanted to kill him) he will HAVE to play his polar opposit, ie Sith.
What should i do?
If you've had problems with him in the past, talk to the rest of the group about him. Then let the GM remind him that he's had problems in the group with evil characters. He may just be talking. Or he could be pushing to see how far he can get, above all be civil and polite as long as possible...then get the stick. He want's PVP then give it to him with both barrels have the whole group stand againist him. If he starts his foolishness nail him again, show him that the group is not having it.
Good Luck.
Disruptive player: "I attack my party mate"
GM: "You are quickly overpowered and knocked unconscious"If he says this is 'unfair' point out that its 'unfair' to make the game unfun for other players. If he doesn't like it he can leave.
Get a stick...That Mr. Fishy kind of Lightbulb.
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@ Sowde
Tell him, why wait? The ranks of the Sith are filled with fallen Jedi.
That said, at least he's somewhat honest about it; had a similar player who always had the song "I'm-chaotic-neutral-and-follow-my-whims" when PVP'ing.
On topic: persoanlly, I find the paladin always scanning for evil in everyone somewhat meta-ish; sure, its an insurance policy to not be caught traveling with an evil being, but I think that it would be more 'lawful' to use detect evil on those who s/he had great suspicions of (reasonable cause).
Detect evil is a spell. Your casting a spell on another person with out permission that's argueablely assault, not very paladin of you. Besides being evil isn't a crime...niether is being a tiefling.
Detect evil dose have V,S .
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No. Detect evil is a Spell-like ability for a paladin, which has no component : "A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component."
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Just because you're evil doesn't mean you don't see the value in team work, trust and group cohesion. Your character would see the value in having strong companions around him to improve his odds of survival in dangerous situations. Being evil doesn't mean backstabbing, greedy betrayer. You might have that evil alignment simply because you take a ruthless approach and aren't concerned with collateral damage.
Adventurers put their lives in the hands of their companions so there is a strong trust element there that I would think no adventurer would risk violating. As once you did, you'd be marked for it and no trustworthy adventurer would never adventure with you. In a world where people can resurrect, call down lightening, destroy buildings, behead great beasts, etc an adventurer without allies would be very vulnerable.
Plus an evil character would see the benefit of having that bond and being able to manipulate his/her allies into doing things he/she wanted them to in order to uphold that bond of trust and allegiance. As long as all are upholding to it then the evil character is never cheated or shafted, but once its been broken then they could be dudded by one of the others. So yeah theres a good reason for evil characters upholding trust and fairness for all group members. I played in a drow campaign where we were all evil and that was one of the main reasons for our characters being true to each other. Well that and the fact that the strength of the group made the individual characters stronger.
Mate the ultimate reason for not betraying, backstabbing and cheating your team mates is that its a game and a social one. Everyone's fun is everyone's responsibility so you as a player have a responsibility to not cause disharmoney or anger other players. Theres nothing wrong with evil characters, just players who don't realise that its a game of group entertainment and not just individual entertainment.
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How would the paladin know unless he intrusively cast detect evil on his friend?
If the character is overt acting in a manner the paladin find offensive. Then yes there will be a problem.
Mr. Fishy played a rogue in a party with a paladin and Mr. Fishy's rogue was unashamed of what he was, he was a THIEF. And he disliked the paladin openly. But He was paid to help and so he honored his contract and behaved...mostly. It had a Starsky and Hutch feel. The Paladin disapproved of the methods but not the results. We had a good back and forth, it was fun.
The players of both the Paladin character and the evil character need to make adjustments for group cohesion. The evil character needs to recognise that for group cohesion he/she needs to respect that they can't do or say certain things in front of the Paladin. That goes for everyone really so its not just a restriction on the evil character. Neutral characters can also cross lines that violate a Paladin's code of ethics.
Evil alignment isn't just for rapers, murders, betrayers, etc. It's also for greedy merchants, exploiters, bullies, selfish, etc. A Paladin knows that he/she can't just "string up" anyone who dings when doing the detect evil scan. They have a code of conduct that restricts them from just killing on the spot. A Paladin may scan an ally and see them come up evil, but the brightness of that aura may be low indicating a person who could be redeemed or lead away from a life of dark deeds. Or a Paladin may choose to adventure with evil companions to catch them in evil acts and see them brought to justice.
I can't remember the book title, but it was a Forgotten Realms novel that had a fallen paladin in it. He hadn't become evil or anything like that, he just wasn't a paladin any more and it was because he snuck into an enemy camp and killed an evil mage rather than issue a challenge. In the eyes of the god, he hadn't conducted himself as a paladin should. So I've always viewed a Paladin as being more than just "see evil, smite evil".
Either way both players need to recognise that they share a responsibility towards group harmoney and fun. Evil player needs to realise that they can't just do whatever they want in front of the paladin, which is the same for other aligned characters.
And as for a Paladin in an evil group, well why would you make a paladin when everyone else is going with evil alignment? Thats just asking for trouble and the player needs to recognise that a paladin is a poor choice. Ditto for an evil character is a party full of Paladins and characters with a similiar heavy code of ethics (eg: exalted). The Paladin is the only class with this strict code of conduct so if you're playing a Paladin you're choosing to role play out the challenge of keeping to the code. You're not choosing easy as thats not a paladin.
Anyways good luck with it.
If you're clever, you can hide your alignment. Maybe see if the GM will allow you a houseruled macguffin that helps obscure your alignment. For low levels I would suggest something that simply clouds the alignment and makes it more difficult to detect. Maybe it's an heirloom pendant, or maybe you've learned to make paper charms that rot away within a week since they absorb your negative energy, putting a small cost to it. This is assuming you're the smart sneaky evil. Even a less subtle evil coul function.
Perhaps the NE player is useful to the party- Indespensible, even, and the rest of the group wants him or her around. The paladin wouldn't like it, but someone helpful detecting as evil doesn't necessarily mean the paladin needs to try to kill it, unless it's a lawful stupid paladin. It could lead to some cool RP stuff where the paladin is all "I don't trust that guy" and character discussion ensues.
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This.Set is right though. I consider that a fault of the class personally, but it's one of the sacred cows people have for the Paladin.The easiest way around that with the fewest loss for anyone would be to simply ban Paladins from play. There's no single class that's more inherently disruptive to group unity.
Instead of flat-out banning it, me and my friends, over the decades, preferred discouraging new players from playing them, up-front stating that the code of conduct can make them difficult to play in some published adventures, and restrict the fun for everyone else at the table. Generally, I game with people who aren't selfish, and understand that the game is meant to be a cooperative venture, and fun for everyone.
The code of conduct, unfortunately, and it's 'nobody else is allowed to play X' restrictions, serves to punish *other gamers* who aren't playing Paladins, not the paladin (or their player), making it an example, IMO, of terrible design. (Like the Jinx flaw, in GURPS, where your presence curses everyone but you to have to roll twice and take the worst roll, because of your 'bad luck aura.') The 1st edition Barbarian class (freaks out and destroys magic items on sight) and Cavalier class (roll on the 'how big a snob am I' social class table, and role-play correctly by ordering everyone else around like the filthy stinking peasants they are) were similar examples of inherently disruptive classes.
It *feels* like a tongue-in-cheek joke, at times, that the Paladin code of conduct requires one to play a lawful good character, and yet, by restricting the options of everyone else at the table, and limiting their behavior, and promoting interparty strife and PVP, to be an option that appeals strongly to selfish, disruptive and 'non-good' players.
I suspect it has also gone a long way to 'poison the well' and create a false stereotype that 'good is dumb' or that you have to play a LG character as 'Awful Good' or 'Lawful Stupid,' which kind of discourages people from playing (or partying with other characters of) what *should* be an appealing and interesting and role-playing-centric alignment choice. The potential irony is that the inflexibility and group-unfriendliness of this 'paragon of goodness' may have resulted in an inevitable surge in the popularity of more 'practical' and morally ambiguous protagonists like Drizzt or whatever, which, IMO, only serves to further muddy the waters of alignment and encourage more black-hatted protagonists of sketchy backgrounds and ethically dubious tactics and less morally upright and responsible and admirable champions of justice, mercy, etc. The noble shining knight is so far up on his high horse that he is out of reach for the average adventure scenario or group composition and ends up being 'Sir-Not-Appearing-in-this-Adventure.' 'Hero' gets defined downwards to being the drunken brawler with a heart of gold who *mostly* does the right thing, eventually, so long as he's getting paid...
There are great examples of LG characters out there (the fighter from Order of the Stick, frex), but the original Paladin concept seemed more inspired by the dude from Song of Roland who got his entire group killed because he was too proud to call for reinforcements before everyone else was dead.
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The usual disclaimer. Add 'IMO' to the end of every sentence that starts with a capital letter.
"A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good."
While frowned upon, it actually does not hinder you in teaming up with an evil alignment character that doesn't play Evil Stupid.
A paladins god might actually approve, as an evil character in the company of a paladin is less likely to sin. Remember that if the paladin decides to smite him without witnessing an evil act, he himself will be the sinner and loose his class abilities. It's not all that set in stone, and it helps when the player and gm co-operate.
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A paladins god might actually approve, as an evil character in the company of a paladin is less likely to sin.
This is an *ideal* work-around solution. The paladin's knightly heirarchy, leige-lord, church and / or *god* have told him flat out, "Keep an eye on this guy. He's shifty, but maybe he can be saved, and, if not, try and keep him alive until he's helped us defeat the Lich-King."
If the Paladin has orders from on high (or, way, way On High) to group with this particular scum-bag, then it turns into one of those buddy-cop movies where one of them is the straight-arrow law and order type (perhaps a few days from retirement and getting 'too old for this...') and the other is the morally ambiguous dirty cop hand-cuffed to him because nobody trusts him and Internal Investigations has a file on him the size of a cinderblock.
Orders straight from Iomedae trump 'code of conduct.'
Sorry for the thread-jack...
We had a player in our campain who constaintly played evil or evil-like charecters. On more then one occasion he started PvP. Eventually we had to kick him out. He's back in our starwars game playing a Jedi. He told me that if his Jedi dies (and it sounded that be wanted to kill him) he will HAVE to play his polar opposit, ie Sith.What should i do?
Wait till he's sleeping, cut open his skull, and put his brain in a vat. Have your party wookie wear the vat on a necklace like a piece of flava flav's bling. He's still alive, and you can keep him in line by tossing alkaselzter pellets in the tank.
A paladins god might actually approve, as an evil character in the company of a paladin is less likely to sin.This is an *ideal* work-around solution. The paladin's knightly heirarchy, leige-lord, church and / or *god* have told him flat out, "Keep an eye on this guy. He's shifty, but maybe he can be saved, and, if not, try and keep him alive until he's helped us defeat the Lich-King."
If the Paladin has orders from on high (or, way, way On High) to group with this particular scum-bag, then it turns into one of those buddy-cop movies where one of them is the straight-arrow law and order type (perhaps a few days from retirement and getting 'too old for this...') and the other is the morally ambiguous dirty cop hand-cuffed to him because nobody trusts him and Internal Investigations has a file on him the size of a cinderblock.
Orders straight from Iomedae trump 'code of conduct.'
Well, the other solution is using the code against the ode.
The paladin cannot strike down an evil character without witnessing an evil deed against innocents, as he is first and foremost bound by law.Killing in self defense will be allowed anywhere more or less. Killing a guy because he hurt someone, rather than restraining him for the city watch, is against the law(in most places).
without witnessing an evil act, he himself will be the sinner and loose his class abilities
Paladins are not elementary school teachers. They don't need to wait to see the events first hand before implementing justice. If the towns people say they saw malak the evil in the grave yard with a shovel and there are now zombies feasting on the brains of the innocent, the paladin goes to the graveyard and there's a man wearing a skull for a hat with the name tag "malak the evil" sticking out of his robes sipping tea, and the man radiates evil like a soviet era submarine... then yes, the paladin can smite away despite not having actually seen him do anything.
The key here for the evil person is to not get caught or at least maintain plausible deniability on the paladin's part. Plausible deniability is not merely not seeing the event. Its not fair to make the paladins player act out of character by hanging around someone who starts wearing orphan skin cloaks while every orphanage they pass mysteriously sets on fire after their first night in town.
oriental adventures had an example in it regarding alignment in which the lawful and neutral axis had more emphasis in the game that good and evil. the example of two samuri, one lawful good and the other lawful evil who grew up together their entire lives and were the best of friends .... and thats it. thats all the explantion they had or needed.
the book went on that somtimes clan or family held more loyalty to party members then mere alignment.
it was a good read =]
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Paladins are not elementary school teachers. They don't need to wait to see the events first hand before implementing justice. If the towns people say they saw malak the evil in the grave yard with a shovel and there are now zombies feasting on the brains of the innocent, the paladin goes to the graveyard and there's a man wearing a skull for a hat with the name tag "malak the evil" sticking out of his robes sipping tea, and the man radiates evil like a soviet era submarine... then yes, the paladin can smite away despite not having actually seen him do anything.
Turns out Malak The Evil was just an undertaker/adept shaman doctor student that became the topic of cruel urban legends. This made him hate the neighborhood, including mocking/gossiping children to which he told horrible stories as to scare them off thus creating even more new stupid stories, and people coming everyday to ask stupid questions about his supposed evil deeds of dead rising.
You just smited an ok guy that radiated evil because everyone around hates him without a reason and he has no choice than to be cautious and a bastard with any visitor to not be mocked or judged even more.
Having personally plaid the oddball-out evil character in a group of do-gooders, I can tell you that it's not easy, but it can be done.
I personally feel that what makes your character Evil is just as important, if not more, than that he is Evil in the first place. My Assassin for example was evil because he could kill for pay and without remorse, which he did, but he never attempted to rob the party's patron, murder the Cleric, or sell the Wizard's spellbook and ungodly expensive staff to a necromancer.
Evil is rarely that toned-down though, and Paladins are rarely accepting of such behavior in the first place, let alone if your Evil character is the kind of evil that carries a blood-soaked greataxe and a necklace of shrunken heads, or other craziness to that effect.
Turns out Malak The Evil was just an undertaker/adept shaman doctor student that became the topic of cruel urban legends. This made him hate the neighborhood, including mocking/gossiping children to which he told horrible stories as to scare them off thus creating even more new stupid stories, and people coming everyday to ask stupid questions about his supposed evil deeds of dead rising.
You just smited an ok guy that radiated evil because everyone around hates him without a reason and he has no choice than to be cautious and a bastard with any visitor to not be mocked or judged even more.
-People not liking you does not make you radiate evil.
-This is an adventure game, not existential nihilism or a Californian juror game.-Smite doesn't work against non evil foes. If you use smite and somethings head doesn't asplode, thats a clue that there's somethinig going on
-Never make an honest mistake, ever, is not part of the paladins code
- Contemplate your navel until you are absolutely 100% sure that there is no possible way you are wrong is not part of the paladin's code. Due diligence is.
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-People not liking you does not make you radiate evil.
-This is an adventure game, not existential nihilism or a Californian juror game.
-Smite doesn't work against non evil foes. If you use smite and somethings head doesn't asplode, thats a clue that there's somethinig going on-Never make an honest mistake, ever, is not part of the paladins code
- Contemplate your navel until you are absolutely 100% sure that there is no possible way you are wrong is not part of the paladin's code. Due diligence is.
- People not liking anyone and probably thinking about how good it could be to make them pay some day, even without ever acting evil because of cowardice or lack of interest, does not make you radiate good or neutral neither.
- I'm sorry if you don't like games that go a little further than ME ADVENTURER, KILLING EVIL MONSTAR.- When the guy is lying on the roof with his head now some meters off his neck, it's a bit too late to wonder why the smite didn't worked. Also, why wouldn't it work since you just detected evil ?
- Honest mistakes, because you're a paladin, should be totally allowed ? This, plus TVTropes 'doing the right thing cuz I'm Good' article.
-For a Lawful Stupid paladin, maybe.
I think you'd be better off playing a Lawful Evil character than a Neutral Evil one. A Lawful Evil character would a least comport himself within the bounds of the law and probably some form of personal code of honor and be less inclined to be the selfish backstabbing bastard cliche most evil characters turn out to be.
- People not liking anyone and probably thinking about how good it could be to make them pay some day, even without ever acting evil because of cowardice or lack of interest, does not make you radiate good or neutral neither.
What you're doing makes the paladin completely, totally, and utterly unplayable in the game. Its bad dming.
People throwing a hissy fit and going goth does not detect evil
People do not randomly put on a skull and black clothes and head to the graveyard to throw a hissy fit during the zombie apocalypse.
- I'm sorry if you don't like games that go a little further than ME ADVENTURER, KILLING EVIL MONSTAR.
I like gray areas. But for there to be an adventure it has to be theoretically possible to eventually decide "ok, he's evil, start combat". Your assertion that said evil has to actually be witnessed
1) is not raw
2) is not rai
3) has absolutely zero support
4) Doesn't even prevent the problem. For all you know that person dual wielding vorpal swords in the orphanage is under the effect of a magic jar.
- When the guy is lying on the roof with his head now some meters off his neck, it's a bit too late to wonder why the smite didn't worked. Also, why wouldn't it work since you just detected evil ?
Evil intentions make you detect as evil but they do not actually make you evil or subject to smite.
Honest mistakes, because you're a paladin, should be totally allowed ? This, plus TVTropes 'doing the right thing cuz I'm Good' article.
-For a Lawful Stupid paladin, maybe.
Miko had to take some serious leaps of ill logic to reach her conclussion, and there was no real immediate danger from the octogenarian.
So under what circumstances do you think its ok for a paladin to use their
full base attack bonus
martial weapon proficiency
Smite evil ability
If you haven't notice, bashing evil in the face is their strong suit, not investigating it.
Mr. Fishy has no problem with fight the bad guy even if you didn't see him kill those orphans. However if you paladin is walking down the street and detects an evil merchant walking by...hit him I dare you.
Overt evil is fair game but detect and smite isn't. Look at the poor misunderstood tieflng, or the reformed imp[that was fun].
Paladin: It's evil we should kill it.
Imp: Wait! I'm reformed!
Paladin: Prove it.
Imp: I've been trapped in a bottle for the last 200 years, so we know I haven't done anything evil in 200 years...When's the last time You did anything good.
Paladin: ......Fair enough.
That Imp helped them find a demon worshiping cult hidden in the sewers.