I never preordered KUG but I would totally buy a PDF and maybe a hard copy when it does come out, along with any of the other Sinister stuff that never got released.
What she said, at least with regard to KUG. Other than Razor Coast I don't know what Sinister stuff wasn't released, and wouldn't auto-purchase products based on the imprint alone.
And as has already been noted re: Mr. Logue's record keeping, he may believe he's returned pre-order money to everyone who asked for it, but if he imagines he's returned all he received, I have to believe he didn't keep good records to begin with. Whatever. I didn't ask for a refund, ergo Nick Logue owes me zero in cash. I'm simply owed the finished product, which perhaps will be provided by someone, someday. We live in hope.
Meantime, I wasn't previously aware of it but this KUG thing, specifically a Pathfinder edition thereof, sounds like it could be very cool. Is it "near future/near space" (say within 50 LY) or does it cover a significant portion of the galaxy? Does it reference actual nearby stars appropriately or jump straight out to unknown reaches, in the manner of Star Trek, Babylon 5 and indeed most SF TV series? I confess I would prefer a "near space" grounding though not have the setting limited to that.
Fire as She Bears was never offered for sale and no pre-orders exist; so, Rite Publishing and the esteemed mister Russel are not involved in any pre-order mess.
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I'm presuming that you mean a free pdf for pre-ordering The KUG, and not a variety of his other products, yes? This KUG sounds pretty cool, especially if it gets hit with a Pathfinder conversion, but I didn't pre-order it and nor would I want to just lift something that had a bazillion hours of work put into it without at least having fulfilled the actual requirements.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Lou,
That's great news on KUG. I hadn't pre-ordered, but was very interested in it, and will expect to buy a copy once it's done. On a related note, I recall at least one supplemental product to it that was planned, Cold Black, which if I remember correctly was an adventure set in the KU. Is this also going to be finished and published?
Also, if KUG does well, what are your plans for future support? I know I'd be a lot more interested in the product if there was the potential for additional supplements, adventures, etc.
I never pre-ordered anything besides Razor Coast, but by the way Lou describes I might very well buy his Known Universe Gazetter. And I would not mind at all if he prices it to make a profit.
Lou, you are awesome.
Lou,
Has he given you anything to do with Ebon Shroud? I pre-ordered that only as I am just interested in adventures, especially level 10+,
thanks,
-- david
Papa.DRB
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Wow - it's exciting to see so many interested. No pressure, right? :) I shall do my best to never disappoint. Here are my best answers to your questions.
@Damon Griffin - My understanding is that Nick believes he's paid back most everyone who has requested a refund. My opinion is that he knows he hasn't paid back everyone who gave him money. I don't speak for Nick or his business. I never was a member or employee of his company, just an interested friend and fellow freelancer. But I've again, and recently, encouraged him to review his books after he settles in HI and revisit his repayment. I'm going to stop talking about this, though, because its outside both my responsibility and control. And, like I said, I just don't speak for him on this or anything -- and I don't wish to accidentally create the false impression that I do.
@ThatEvilGuy - Exactly right. A free PDF of the KUG for anyone who pre-ordered the KUG. Nothing to do with Razor Coast.
@JoelF847 - Cold Black was an adventure Nick and I planned to co-write. It reached the outline phase but no farther. I have no plans to complete it, sorry. However, if the KUG as a sandbox setting generates enough interest (and sales) that it appears adventures and/or supplements would let me pay the freelancers over at the Werecabbages then I'll definitely consider more products. I wish I could speak with greater certainty, but this is all pretty new to me, and I'm loathe to make commitments I'm unsure of my ability to keep.
@Zaister and JoelF847 -- Wow, guys. I greatly appreciate that. The good news is that profit in this case doesn't change anything about my willingness to do this or not. Numbers of interested people, however, does. In some senses putting this out inexpensively probably increases the likelihood of follow-on product because it (theoretically) increases the number of people I know will want more books/adventures/etc. If I could afford to (I can't) I'd probably put the KUG out for free just to maximize the installed base (so to speak) and reduce my risk without doing pre-orders.
Bottom line: lets see how this goes one step at a time, deliver a real product, and see how many folks like it. If enough folks do, I'll definitely talk to the Cabbages about follow-on material, adventures and supplements.
This initial show of support is very heartening -- thanks again!
PS Oh - here's something I'd love to know. My understanding is that there currently exist a few flavors of "space pathfinder" from 3PPs. What's the consensus on which are good? Anyone have any preferences? Suggestions on which I should take a hard look at?
For the KUG? Well, its sort of like this: Nick stated he was going to put out Razor Coast then shut down. My information indicates this property would never be published, ever.
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Any reason why he thinks that Razor Coast will never be released? Its so strange that the one that is most complete is the one that will never see the light of day.
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Any reason why he thinks that Razor Coast will never be released? Its so strange that the one that is most complete is the one that will never see the light of day.
For the KUG? Well, its sort of like this: Nick stated he was going to put out Razor Coast then shut down. My information indicates this property would never be published, ever.
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Oops - I wasn't clear enough. Regrets. I never meant to say Nick believed Razor Coast would never be released. I meant to convey that the last time Nick talked about his plans he intended to publish RC but not any other settings or adventures -- including the space stuff like the KUG. I have no information on the Anarchist Gamemaster's Cookbook.
This is the danger of talking for someone else. I'm going to stop that now.
BTW Lou, I'm very excited to get the your adventure that Frog God will release! Hope it comes out soon.
Zaister has a good point - if we want to pay a price that would allow a profit (and potentially help make KUG the start of a product line, rather than a stand alone product), can there be a way to at least willingly pay more than the break even price?
I am in for this as well. You are a class act, and i would love to support your endevors with additional $ if possible. Have you considered a kickstarter or something similar? Heck, i'll give you money for free. That's how much i appreciate all the kindness and consideration you have shown.
@Damon Griffin - My understanding is that Nick believes he's paid back most everyone who has requested a refund. My opinion is that he knows he hasn't paid back everyone who gave him money.
Gosh, I'm one of the few unlucky ones who didn't make the cut. Despite numerous emails and promises to refund my money.
I can only hope he has paid back most everyone who requested refunds. But somehow I highly doubt that he has.
These threads and resurrections of older threads just pain me, b/c they raise a spark of hope that I'll see my money returned, only to have it snuffed out every time.
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@Coltaine - g'waan! You're makin' me blush. I have considered kickstarter. Put it aside as too closely resembling a pre-order, but you've made me think about finishing the whole book then seeing about a kickstarter to add more art. This way I've still got the product to release if the kickstarter doesn't make the numbers.
To tell you the truth though, I'm focusing on Fire As She Bears. Have to get that to Rite Publishing as the first order of business. Hopefully before the next pirate AP shows up!
@BenS - I can only offer my sympathy Ben. I don't have his money, and I'm not part of his company. However I will specifically email him for you and recommend he pays you back pronto. Best I can do. If/when he does, please post and let us know. And you are definitely right -- I don't wish to bring up pain for anyone or raise false hopes; so, after this post I'll shift to a new thread about the various projects -- Sinister roots or no.
@Alzrius - absolutely. If/when I get this out, if you didn't pre-order the KUG you can definitely buy the PDF. Thanks for the tip on Myths of the Far Future. I'll check that out.
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Beyond that, the only system I'm aware of that takes Pathfinder outside of the fantasy genre is Game Room Creations' The Modern Path: Heroes of the Modern World 2.0, and that's Pathfinder-modern, not future. The only Pathfinder-future I've heard of so far is EN Publishing's forthcoming Myths of the Far Future, but I'm not sure when that's coming out.
It's only fair to mention Avalon's Infinite Futures though I can't speak for any consensus as to its quality.
In older systems, Blood and Space seemed like a promising attempt to build on the somewhat disappointing foundation of d20 Future.
I'm very interested to hear about Myths of the Far Future.
KUG sounds interesting. I'd buy a copy!
Repeating this part of my previous post as it got lost in the shuffle. If there's someplace else I can go to read about it myself, just point me there --
I wasn't previously aware of it but this KUG thing, specifically a Pathfinder edition thereof, sounds like it could be very cool. Is it "near future/near space" (say within 50 LY) or does it cover a significant portion of the galaxy? Does it reference actual nearby stars appropriately or jump straight out to unknown reaches, in the manner of Star Trek, Babylon 5 and indeed most SF TV series? I confess I would prefer a "near space" grounding though not have the setting limited to that.
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Since Nick's back in Hawai'i, do you think he'll return to writing rpg fray?Here's the latest update. Not ready to say anything about Razor Coast, because I've got nothing concrete to say. But I've made a little forward motion...
No idea. Sorry. Thank you all for the good wishes. I moved further discussion of the KUG and Fire as She Bears (including answers to your questions Damon Griffin) to here.
Thanks again - this enthusiasm is deeply encouraging and uplifting. Happy New Year!
I didn't order KUG (space ain't my thang), but I wll be paying for the print copy when it becomes available.
Still hoping for RC (I asked for a refund, but didn't get one - but that was only because I thought there would never be a product. I'd prefer the product).
I'll say this: I might not have noticed the name Lou Agresta amidst the werecabbages, but thanks to this whole mess, I've found someone who does some pretty great work, so I guess there's an upside to this!
(Check out Lou's work for 0one games if you guys haven't. Both "The Bloody Fix" and "Puncture the Blackened Vein" are masterful.)
Providing these things are a very cool thing, Louis, and you have a very impressive attitude to this. You rock!
P.S. If you have contact with Nick at some point, Louis, could you tell him there are quite a few people who miss his work? My group is reaching the end of the Logue gospel, and I am seriously afraid of what they will do when I can no longer provide them with their Logueness fix.
Providing these things are a very cool thing, Louis, and you have a very impressive attitude to this. You rock!
P.S. If you have contact with Nick at some point, Louis, could you tell him there are quite a few people who miss his work? My group is reaching the end of the Logue gospel, and I am seriously afraid of what they will do when I can no longer provide them with their Logueness fix.
There's always Richard Pett. Between him and Logue, I'd have to say his adventures win out from the weird and bizarre angle. He's an evil genius.
BTW Lou, I'm very excited to get the your adventure that Frog God will release! Hope it comes out soon.Thanks, man! It was the first piece I ever collaborated on, when Nick was still showing me the ropes.
I just heard about it while reading this thread. I don't have enough material to fill out 2012 with releases from Frog God so I'm sure it's in the works.
We're currently pushing hard on getting Slumbering Tsar finished so that might be why I hadn't heard anything yet.
Can't wait to see the "Scorned" manuscript, Lou!
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Thanks for the update Lou, you are a scholar and a gentleman.
I think I pre ordered three products from Sinister (oh the misplaced faith!), Razor Coast, the Known Universe Gazetter and one other – might have been Cold Black or Ebon Shroud, I’ll need to look back through my records. I haven’t asked for a refund, I hold very little hope at this point that Nick will ever release these products (which is a great pity), but it would be nice if it happened one day. While I’m very disappointed that I payed in good faith for a product I never did and probably never will receive, what’s the point of asking for my money back? After all these years I don’t miss it, and I kind of look at it as a contribution to the Sinister Adventures website (I enjoyed the updates, the art and the forums back at the beginning) and to subsidise the excellent (and cost effective) Indulgences for Razor Coast.
Your not the only one... though we might be the only two. :)My understanding is that he did return money, but inconsistently. Some received theirs back upon request, some did not. I have no way to know which group is larger (got money back - did not get money back).There's a third group, though I suppose I might be the last holdout: those people who haven't requested a refund in the increasingly vain hope that Razor Coast will actually see the light of day while there's still a source for that light -- that is, before the sun goes nova.
Hey, you never know. I could win the lottery.
Three^H^H^H^H^H Eighteenth, apparently. But then I was the first to order from Sinister, and I preordered the AGC.
What can I say, we hit it off when he led _Blood of the Gorgon_, and I'm willing to give a friend a shot at making good.
-Ben.
There's always Richard Pett. Between him and Logue, I'd have to say his adventures win out from the weird and bizarre angle. He's an evil genius.
Agreed! <<Raises his glass to honor Pett and Logue's creepy, inspiring work.>>
We've got some stuff coming up with Richard Pett too, incidentally.
Mwahahaha!
Oh goody. I hear he's maniacal!
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Mnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnaar!
The rumor's entirely baseless...
We've got some stuff coming up with Richard Pett too, incidentally.
Preordered. Just saying.
Blimmey you work fast Heine, that's good, that's very good:)
Mnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnaar!
The rumor's entirely baseless...
Just... just avoid looking him in the eyes, folks. Everything will be ok if you avoid his gaze.
Also, I'd like to say that the KUG piques my interest.
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BTW Lou, I'm very excited to get the your adventure that Frog God will release! Hope it comes out soon.Thanks, man! It was the first piece I ever collaborated on, when Nick was still showing me the ropes.I just heard about it while reading this thread. I don't have enough material to fill out 2012 with releases from Frog God so I'm sure it's in the works.
We're currently pushing hard on getting Slumbering Tsar finished so that might be why I hadn't heard anything yet.
Can't wait to see the "Scorned" manuscript, Lou!
Hey Chuck! It's on Greg's desk, so give him a poke. :) Hope I didn't speak out of turn.
Hey Chuck! It's on Greg's desk, so give him a poke. :) Hope I didn't speak out of turn.BTW Lou, I'm very excited to get the your adventure that Frog God will release! Hope it comes out soon.Thanks, man! It was the first piece I ever collaborated on, when Nick was still showing me the ropes.I just heard about it while reading this thread. I don't have enough material to fill out 2012 with releases from Frog God so I'm sure it's in the works.
We're currently pushing hard on getting Slumbering Tsar finished so that might be why I hadn't heard anything yet.
Can't wait to see the "Scorned" manuscript, Lou!
Heck no! I go uninformed all the time! ;)
Is that cause he is a Mushroom man?Hope I didn't speak out of turn.Lou, we spend a lot of time and energy trying to keep Chuck in the dark and then you go and ruin everything.
;-)
No. It's because I burn easy.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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Just seen this thread - I pre-ordered the Cookbook and RC, and witnessed first-hand Lou's awesomeness in his valiant attempt to get that beached whale back into the water. I'm one of the many who will one day get the finished products. Oh yes, they will be mine. (whaddya mean delusional?)
I couldn't afford to preorder KUG at the time but will gladly get the print+pdf now at whatever it costs.
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Just seen this thread - I pre-ordered the Cookbook and RC, and witnessed first-hand Lou's awesomeness in his valiant attempt to get that beached whale back into the water. I'm one of the many who will one day get the finished products. Oh yes, they will be mine. (whaddya mean delusional?)
This is me as well. Pre ordered both, still hopeful after all this time.