You know how the vast majority of classes are technologically neutral? By this, I mean they are effective and flavorful through all sorts of levels of technology, from Stone Age and Bronze Age, through Dark Age, Medieval, and Renaissance, and into Weird West Industrial, Victorian, Steampunk, and beyond, all the way to d20 Modern (and Future) Faeriepunk and Spelljamming Spacefaring campaigns.
But the Gunslinger is an odd class in that it is specifically based on a specific piece of technology.
Does anyone have any ideas for a technologically-neutral version of the gunslinger? I was thinking of elfshot and knapped flint projectiles, but would they need some kind magic tool to project them? Just handwaving and telekinesis? Something really cool I haven't thought of?
i would just use hand crossbows just to make it simple, sorry nothing creative comes to mind right now.
Make the guns magic based. Change the gunslinger class to be a subset of the alchemist that instead of making bombs they make gunpowder. Doing it that way nobody else except for the creator of the gunpowder could use it.
Slings are probably the most base example of a ranged weapon that throws a bullet-like object.
Crossbows have the same problem, really.
Make the guns magic based. Change the gunslinger class to be a subset of the alchemist that instead of making bombs they make gunpowder. Doing it that way nobody else except for the creator of the gunpowder could use it.
It's still a steampunk-ish fantasy genre (Full Metal Fantasy was the tag) but it details magic-based guns in the rules.
Rite Publishing's Faces of the Tarnished Souk: Nix, the Dreamkiller has an arbalester archetype for the gunslinger.
The duelist PrC has the same problem, since they are made to use the rapier, something invented after firearms.
I've been toying with the idea of altering a Gunslinger to use bows for a less advanced setting. Not exactly sure how well it would work though.
Also. The idea of a class using all the deeds and such with throwing weapons, could be really interesting. Someone Archetype this!
SUper genius games has ultimate options:grit and gunslingers. It has options for using the class with different weapons. Bows, slings, swords. There are different rules for using grit as panache with piercing weapons. Retains the cool, ditches the gun.
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You know how the vast majority of classes are technologically neutral? By this, I mean they are effective and flavorful through all sorts of levels of technology, from Stone Age and Bronze Age, through Dark Age, Medieval, and Renaissance, and into Weird West Industrial, Victorian, Steampunk, and beyond, all the way to d20 Modern (and Future) Faeriepunk and Spelljamming Spacefaring campaigns.
But the Gunslinger is an odd class in that it is specifically based on a specific piece of technology.
How would you have a Wizard before writing was invented? And you certainly wouldn't have Samurai in the Stone Age, or Paladins in pre-tribal societies. And archers really don't work very well in super high tech societies when faced against crackshot laser marksmen.
Technology does not exist as a separate entity, it both shapes and is shaped by the cultures that practice it.
I think the OP is speaking of the default assumption. The Pathfinder core rules seems to be written with Dark Ages to renaissance tech in mind. Everyone I know trims down the available classes for what would fit in their campaigns, but that is because they are working outside the base assumption of the rules. I realize this is not stated but the tech level of core is implied.
But Gunslinger is the only class that does not fit in the Dark Ages to Renaissance assumption. If I want to play a Dark Ages Style campaign, I can use all classes Except the gunslinger. I can even make a case for Alchemist. The fact that the gunslinger relies on tech from a narrow period within that scope can be problematic.
Generally if you were going to run Dark ages you would have to trim the available equiptment. If you wanted to make only plausible classes than you would have to eliminate Gunslinger because its class abilities rely on one piece of equiptment that would not be available to the Dark Age mileu. This is the only class where one would have to do that. All others use medieval tech and magic.
I've heard of alchemists reflavored as voodoo priests or savage shamans, using exploding animal skulls as bombs, etc. Pre-literate wizards would have to make extensive use of the Spell Mastery feat or use some other mnemonic recording device, like quipu strings or pictograms or a trance or something.
Samurai and Paladins can be re-sleeved into Stone Age societies. They might use flint-tipped spears or shark tooth-lined battle clubs, but they could still be honorable and just warriors. Their social level might be more highly "evolved" than their material science level.
SUper genius games has ultimate options:grit and gunslingers. It has options for using the class with different weapons. Bows, slings, swords. There are different rules for using grit as panache with piercing weapons. Retains the cool, ditches the gun.
Let me second Grit & Gunslingers, found here and currently sitting with three 5/5 reviews. The book lets you use the gunslinger with a braod range of weapons, giving access to the grit/deed core mechanic without requiring firearms. (And even if you want firearms of the 3 musketeers/pirates of the Caribbean style, the book provides the fusilier class which works much better than the core gunslinger).
How about atl-atl hurlers?
How about atl-atl hurlers?
I was thinking of these. They're pretty powerful, since they effectively double or triple the length of your throwing arm....
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SUper genius games has ultimate options:grit and gunslingers. It has options for using the class with different weapons. Bows, slings, swords. There are different rules for using grit as panache with piercing weapons. Retains the cool, ditches the gun.Let me second Grit & Gunslingers, found here and currently sitting with three 5/5 reviews. The book lets you use the gunslinger with a braod range of weapons, giving access to the grit/deed core mechanic without requiring firearms. (And even if you want firearms of the 3 musketeers/pirates of the Caribbean style, the book provides the fusilier class which works much better than the core gunslinger).
I'll have to check it out. As it is, trying to make something out of Pirates of the Caribbean is nigh impossible due to the MAD. I want to make a gunslinger that can fill in as a secondary fighting class, but they are so poor at it due to the uniqueness of the gunslinger design. I can't go Weapon Finesse and rapier because Piranha Strike applies only to light weapons, which a rapier is not (it bugs the hell out of me that this is the case).
I'm not sure how anybody can say the gunslinger doesn't fit Renaissance since muskets and cannons were around during that time and used extensively, especially for oversea conquests of America and Africa (not sure about Asia).
Just make guns magical and get it over with.
Just as a point I don't think anyone was suggesting that Firearms are not renaissance. It is the other periods which are in question, basically anything before the high period.
You can also use the pellet bow (aka stone bow). These were crossbows that fired stone pellets.
Question, why do people try to pigeon-hole a fantasy game to a specific historic period? I see nothing wrong with either the Gunslinger or the Alchemist in the Golarian setting, particularly after reading through the Carrion Crown adventure path. The cities are very Rennaissance (and late Rennaissance period at that), I mean one of them involves a bleach manufacturing operation, and chemical work of that scale wasn't practiced until much later historically than the advent of firearms in our world.
On a side note, cannon were in use in sieges in Europe as early as the 13th century, in China as of the 12th, a period firmly in the dark ages, and the bow still reigned supreme until well into the 17th century.
Oops, sorry for the double post, overly sensitive mouse. :-)
Electric batteries have been found in ancient Persian archaeological digs, Ancient Greece had crude steam engines, and the Romans had napalm. Heck, Persian Alchemists even get a turn in 300. Just do what you want with technology.
But if you still feel the need to keep the tech out of it, I'd suggest using gunpowder rockets (fireworks really). Instead of a gun, the character carries a quiver full of "fire arrows" that he shoots out of a tube.