So, inspired by some of the recent comments on 5e threads on RPG.net (from which this is cross-posted), and my own previous attempts at reforming the D&D class and race rules, I think I've finally found what I would consider the perfect solution.
For those of you fortunate enough to have been spared my previous threads, here's the gist of my class/multiclass rules:
- Characters can advance in any number of classes concurrently, per the Gestalt rules, but use progressively slower XP charts for each class after the first.
- Characters may add a class at any point after reaching level 2 by starting over from 0th level with 0 XP, but may not stop progressing in any class unless they forfeit the class features of that class.
- NPC classes and Prestige Classes function like base classes (PrCs are adjusted to 20 levels) but only count as 1/2 of a class for XP purposes, with a limited number of exceptions that count as full classes. Characters must advance in at least one full class.
- Characters receive both of the standard +1 HP/skill Favored Class bonuses for advancing in at least one racially favored class and the alternate Favored Class bonuses, from Advanced Player's Guide for every racially Favored Class they advance in.
The last point is the best solution I've been able to come up with, short of old D&D style racial classes, to make your choice of race relevant for a character's entire career. Regrettably, I've had to reject the race-as-class idea for being too restrictive-- being prohibitively expensive both for non-human PCs playing against their racial stereotypes and for PCs wanting to advance in classes whose abilities overlap too much with their racial class. Thinking about those threads, I've come up with the following, in addition to the rules above:
- Each non-human race (excluding half-humans) has a Basic Racial Class, which is mandatory and counts as a half-class, and an optional Paragon Racial Class that counts as a full class and replaces the Basic Racial Class. Some racial features will become class features or class options for these classes, while others will remain attached to the race itself.
- Humans receive +1 HP and +1 skill point as a racial feature, but do not receive a Racial Favored Class bonus. Human Paragon is an optional half-class that allows Humans to receive the Human Racial Favored Class bonuses from the classes they are advancing in. (This means that Human Paragons will almost always be multiclassed. This is intentional.)
- Humans may take Racial Heritage feats that allow them to choose and advance in one Racial Basic Class (from a list) and receive that race's Racial Favored Class benefits for the classes they are advancing in. This may optionally be allowed for some non-human hybrids.
Any thoughts?
Personally, I don't think a character's race should EVER be relevant for their entire career. A sufficiently powerful wizards should always be equals, regardless of their race. It allows you to play compare and contrast between characters better; the power hungry, reckless human versus the practiced, studied elf for example.
My biggest problem with the Advanced Player's Guide is that it brings back the idea that a character's race should influence their class's power in some ways. Personally, I think that a character's race should matter at all levels, but never because it has a direct impact on their class. The best idea I've seen is the addition of racial powers at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th levels. Those are the levels on which characters do not get benefits aside from class benefits (i.e. feats every odd level and ability increases every 4).
See, that idea right there breaks my teeth. I don't understand how a person's career can have more of an influence on their abilities and their aptitudes than their species. And characters should be rewarded for choosing careers that their species is naturally inclined to develop.
And characters should be rewarded for choosing careers that their species is naturally inclined to develop.
Meanwhile, I believe characters should not be punished for choosing careers that their species is not naturally inclined to develop.
And giving some a reward and others nothing is effectively the same as punishing some and giving others nothing.
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Who said racial progression had to punish certain choices?
I've been toying with the idea of racial paragon levels, and using them as a means to allow players to play advanced/high powered races. I always liked the idea of racial levels, even for standard races, but they always fell flat to me... why should I stop being a wizard so I can become more gnomish? The racial levels never gave as much as they were worth.
What I've been thinking of writing is something similar to the bloodlines in Unearthed Arcana, except costing feats, not whole levels. Spend a feat and you unlock the first series of racial abilities at certain levels. Spend a second and you get more. Spend a third and you get even more. Et cetera.
Note that I'm working with a power level assumption somewhat different to standard Pathfinder, so scaling feats like this work perfectly fine for me. :)
I've had to fight against the 'race > class' problem so hard that I built it into my campaign setting. The lesson is taught over and over throughout the world's history: Relying on superiority of race is ultimately a terrible hubris that leads to the downfall of even the greatest individuals and even nations. It is an age of heroes who can overcome the differences of race, gender, age and even death itself (undead PCs available). The universe might even be active in seeking to punish those that try to elevate some inherent aspect of their being above others who lack it, instead of using hard-earned skill.
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I just don't understand why it has to be about race being more important than a class. Can't it just be that you want your character to be more elfy, or more gnomish, or more celestial, or whatever, just for the sake of the character? A tiefling developing powers to become a half-fiend, for example.
To me, it isn't about race being more important than class, or even as important. I just want your choice of race to be as relevant at 5th level, or 15th, as it was at 1st. I want to make the various humanoid races more distinct.
I'm really looking forward to Advanced Race Guide. I'm hoping that the additional information and rules for the core races and different monster races will give me more material to work from.
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To me, it isn't about race being more important than class, or even as important. I just want your choice of race to be as relevant at 5th level, or 15th, as it was at 1st. I want to make the various humanoid races more distinct.
I'm really looking forward to Advanced Race Guide. I'm hoping that the additional information and rules for the core races and different monster races will give me more material to work from.
The more your Race impacts your character's mechanics, the more Race matters as a choice, and the more pigeon-holed certain classes will feel.
As an example, let's say, for the sake of argument, one of things Elves get later on is a scaling bonus to Spell Penetration rolls. That will ensure almost everyone that knows the rules and cares about mechanics will play Elven Wizards and Witches (and hell, maybe even Sorcerers), unless another race gets an equally good (or better) feature.
Look, the stat bumps are already bad--you almost never see Halfling two-handed fighters or Barbarians; you're not going to see Dwarven Sorcerers.
If it were up to me, racial choice would be 100% pure aesthetics, and would not alter stats in any way whatsoever. I want Race to matter less, and I am frankly baffled by the idea that someone would want it to matter even more.
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I think racial progressions could work if it existed as traits and rogue talents. This way you could choose from a pool of characteristics that might work or change them around to fit your campaign. As long as you avoid any predjudices you might have (i.e. Halflings are useless comic relief) or make them class specific youshould be fine. For instance Humans and Halflings who spend most of there time up all night or in dark dungeons might develope Low-Light Vision. It would be useful to any class you play.
As for stat bumps, one thing I've thought of doing was making a 1st level only Feat that negated a Stat penalty so you might find a Dwarf Sorcerer or Halfling Barbarian more of an option.
Don't want to derail the thread but i couldn't find the 5E stuff on rpg.net could you link it maybe.
Racial feats, racial options...a person's culture is definitive of who they are. In a fantasy world, race can determine outlook, predisposition, though not final nature--you get into the nature versus nurture argument, where personalities end up being a combination of both (and so the argument never really settles, because column A wants it to only be column A, and column B...).
The twins, for example, who were both prone to nightmares and sleepwalking, despite one having a supportive home and the other not. And yet, were different in other areas because of how they were raised.
Include some racial benefits at the beginning, and then the rest as options. It's a bow to a little of column A, and a little of column B. It's a bow to the hardliners, while keeping with the flavor and flexibility others want in a game.