any Ideas on how the PFO characters look will be and how they will be made
personally I like how EVE online allows for the generated look of the characters as it allows for more personalisation of the avatar in look
Goblin Squad Member
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I would like to put forth a vote that we do not go for the WoW model, with cartoonish models.
I would also like to put forth a vote that models have a build similar to the Skyrim system in the facial features, and via sliders for the body-type. 'Heroic' (V shaped for the males, Hour-glass for the women), Normal (not fat or muscle or curves), Thin and Fat.
Well, we have been told to expect that PFO will be going with the artistry contained within the current Pathfinder rulebooks, so the style is pretty much a moot point.
I would point to Age of Conan as a game that had a boatload of character creation options and fine tuning controls, and would love to see PFO equal or better the amount of control found there. If I can potentially get lost within the "character creator minigame" for a good long while, the game will have me hooked before I even set foot out into the world.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I cannot believe I'm actually saying something positive about the game Perfect World, But I do believe it's character creation is worth looking at. Not the art style, but the depth of customization it had, deep control of just about everything in the way the character looked etc...
onishi you have got to be joking PWI is an oversimplified lineageII piece of * explitive deleted* !!!!
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Goblin Squad Member
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onishi you have got to be joking PWI is an oversimplified lineageII piece of * explitive deleted* !!!!
Everything in the gameplay of perfect world is oversimplified garbage I agree. The designing of your character on the other hand is 10x deeper then any other game I have ever seen. When I say deep I mean 5 sliders to control your eyes alone. (slider for angle, how far in your face they sit, height, etc...
Check this video for an example without needing to play the horrific game. (Note I am not saying anything positive about the cartoonish graphics style, and especially not the gamplay after your character is made, This is extremely limited to the depth and level of options in the character creation)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I prefer LOTRO's character-creation system, where you pick 1 of about 20 pregenerated eyes, noses, hairstyles, etc. Customizing every angle of the face is nice, and maybe I'm not enough of an RP'er to care, but I hate how many different slider bars I have to fiddle with in Oblivion or Skyrim before I get a character face I can tolerate. Of course, I'm going to be shoving that head into a helmet for the rest of the game, so maybe it doesn't matter that much after all...
That's another point: How much will it matter as to what your character's face looks like? Going back to Oblivion/Skyrim, I maintin that they put way too much time/effort into making all those sliderbars, since all characters look the same in a full suit of armor. Maybe armor won't be so important in PFO, or maybe they'll use one of Exalted's rules, where a sufficiently awesome hairstyle can protect as well as a helmet. (Seriously. It's in Exalted's core rulebook.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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It would be wonderfull if things like hair actually moved. I've seen it before yet even skyrim does horrible with it. Characters look ridiculous with a ponytail or such made out of starch.
I'd be thrilled if they'd just get away from hair that looked like starch, or hay. LOTRO is the worst offender of the majors, in my opinion.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I prefer LOTRO's character-creation system, where you pick 1 of about 20 pregenerated eyes, noses, hairstyles, etc. Customizing every angle of the face is nice, and maybe I'm not enough of an RP'er to care, but I hate how many different slider bars I have to fiddle with in Oblivion or Skyrim before I get a character face I can tolerate.
I'm totally different. I remember sitting for hours tweaking my character in SWG or Vanguard. I think the appeal to having all those sliders is that you can create a totally unique look, rather than being long-lost-twins to 1/10th of the player population.
The only think that I hope is a dress that shows the damage it has. and the dirt, blood and glory that the suit has gained.
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I want a sexy underwear for my male dwarf. POWER WORD BLIND and FINGHER OF DEATH at will. oh yeah...
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Let's not forget racial options. I want a dragonwrought kobald. Or a goblin(I love that comic). Of course even more wacked out(I have yet to play this at table sadly) an awakend tiger, can't wield weapons but can get barding and learn sorcerery or druid and ranger at least.
Of course maybe rare creatures can be made rare by only one in so many get the chance to make that type and if they pass it up it goes to the next guy.
And make npcs regard me according to my race would be awesome too.
" get outa my shop you filthy kobald!"
of course tiefling is a must. But not the 4.0 tiefling they just ruined every tiefling I ever made.
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I think a full-range would be most fitting. Not everyone is going to make an adventurer, and maybe the baker should be able to be a chubby, pasty guy/gal. Even some adventurers could be bulkier, and not all muscle...dwarven beer guts, etc. Just a thought, of course.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I did not even realize there were tieflings in PF. I will be happy with lots of variation in the core races...they can always add more later as they open new areas.
(I am not trying to discourage anyone's hope for more options, I am after-all for as many options as possible, I am just expressing my opinion that I would prefer more time spent getting the core working well and prettily before working on other "stuff". If they are able to do all of it and well, more power to them and yay for us.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Truthfully I have no idea about if tiefling are in pf but I have a bad habit of mixing 3.5 with pf probably because my gm allowes all the 3.5 add-on books.
Just checked...they are in the bestiary.
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awesome maybe can play one then. Have to get more of these books for myself.
I just hope they don't say that tieflings have these ridiculous tails that look like they shoud be stuck to a dragon. And smaller horns. Actually one of my tieflings outwardly had only red skin and eyes as indications of infernal parantage.
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Goblin Squad Member
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awesome maybe can play one then. Have to get more of these books for myself.
I just hope they don't say that tieflings have these ridiculous tails that look like they shoud be stuck to a dragon. And smaller horns. Actually one of my tieflings outwardly had only red skin and eyes as indications of infernal parantage.
Yeah in FR lore tieflings could usually pass for human if they wanted, I believe they only had 1-2 minor physical traits of their heritage, usually something along the lines of tiny horns, beast-like eyes, or a small tail (more along the line of a cats tail not like a 1' wide monstrosity). I'm away from my bestiary so I can't really double check, but it looks like PF has similar appearance traits to FR and less like 4th editions straight from hell appearance.
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why not begin maybe with only the core races?
as far i can see in this game RP is going to be crucial, and so is the setting of commerce, searching materials and rivality between villages.
we have already warves,humans, half elves, helves, half orcs, gnomes and halflings. We don't need other rarer races...
and i'm hoping for villages made only by one race and some antipathy between dwarves and elves, Dwarves and half orcs, dwarves and halflings and so on. Poor dwarves... :D
when the "population cap" of the game rises, maybe other races can be added, but for now is better implement racial variations as seen on the "advanced player guide"
Ehi, dwarves with +2 racial against spells and dwarves with SR 5+DV should be rivals, too.
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Goblin Squad Member
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why not begin maybe with only the core races?
as far i can see in this game RP is going to be crucial, and so is the setting of commerce, searching materials and rivality between villages.
we have already warves,humans, half elves, helves, half orcs, gnomes and halflings. We don't need other rarer races...
and i'm hoping for villages made only by one race and some antipathy between dwarves and elves, Dwarves and half orcs, dwarves and halflings and so on. Poor dwarves... :D
when the "population cap" of the game rises, maybe other races can be added, but for now is better implement racial variations as seen on the "advanced player guide"
Ehi, dwarves with +2 racial against spells and dwarves with SR 5+DV should be rivals, too.
This makes a lot of sense and may be best to start out with the basic rivals and see how the gameplay works...expand to more races and customization as feedback comes in and the game plays out.
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For the amount of work you're going to have to do and the time required, no it's not a good idea.
If a character concept one has involves a kobold or a goblin, and they have to wait 6 months or a year for taht option to become available, that's 6 months to a year of time they could have spent playing the character they wanted.
But no, now they will reroll, and reset the timer, and fall farther away from top of the pile.
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and so the 80% that use standard races cannot have racials variation for their pg because the 20% (round up) can play a goblin? .
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One request...the ability to play an non-comic standard female (overweight, flat-chested, no butt, whatever). I've been playing SW:ToR and I was annoyed to discover that while you can play an overweight (downright obese) male, you are utterly incapable of choosing anything but a (very) healthy height-weight proportionate female. Sure, the vast swarms of folks might not choose the option, but it should be there.
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One request...the ability to play an non-comic standard female (overweight, flat-chested, no butt, whatever). I've been playing SW:ToR and I was annoyed to discover that while you can play an overweight (downright obese) male, you are utterly incapable of choosing anything but a (very) healthy height-weight proportionate female. Sure, the vast swarms of folks might not choose the option, but it should be there.
Enthusiastically seconded! All too often, while the weight slider for males may determine how skinny or fat your character is, on females, it merely determines the size of her breasts. For that matter, I would love to see independent breast/hip/weight/muscle tone sliders. Not that I haven't made my share of cheesecake-y characters; it would just be awesome to also be able to make a female character that looked like every inch the physical threat her stats imply. Even curvy gals aren't all curvy in the same way. My friend bemoans the fact that she has yet to create her athletic, only-slightly-endowed, yet curvaceous-hipped character in a video game. And maybe your ranger/fighter looks like an amazon, but if your merchant or craftswoman has a little more to love, can't that be endearing, too?
By the same token, a wide range of body types for males would be highly favorable. The player looking for a non-beefcake/behemoth despairs when trying to determine a physical appearance in a number of video games. Where are the lithe, compact rogues and slender, delicate sorcerers? WoW has some particularly jarring examples of exaggerated masculinity.
People are so beautifully diverse in their shapes and sizes; why limit ourselves to just a few?
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Goblin Squad Member
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... now they will reroll, and reset the timer, and fall farther away from top of the pile.
This is a significant problem. SWTOR is trying to address it with Legacy levels. Others have tried similar solutions.
Another thread was discussing the problem of permanent death, and how in the tabletop, you really didn't start from scratch, you would actually just roll a new character of the appropriate level.
I would love to see the Time Investment idea expanded a little so that some of the investment was put into the Account instead of the Character. I think it would be really great for Accounts that have a significant investment to be able to create brand new characters that already had a significant skill set.
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and so the 80% that use standard races cannot have racials variation for their pg because the 20% (round up) can play a goblin? .
the goblins are likely to be in the game anyway as npcs it wouldnt take as much work to make them playable as would a race that is not seen anywhere else in game. and races like drow and tieflings dont need any programming work, you change the stats and a couple of superficial features and use the same framework as the humans/elves. in fact the goblin could be a mod of the halfing. the kobald might take a little bit more work but again is likely to be in game already.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have played EVE and Saga of Ryzom (EDIT: and Darkfall), both use skill trees instead of levels. EVE uses train by account age, Ryzom uses train by doing (although you actually have to succeed in your doing to gain experience, unlike Darkfall which allowed you to just "do" without "doing" to anything)...I did not start at launch in either game and I have never had a problem logging in and having fun...even though I might not be "the best"..or even comparatively "good".
I am looking for a place I enjoy being, whether I am the best or not will make no difference. If I enjoy being on Golarion, I will not mind rerolling a new race 6 months to a year down the road...especially since I can keep setting my main to learn new skills while I play my new character.
(EDIT: or even 2-4 years down the road...)
I'm a fan of customization, don't get me wrong, but I think the sliders should be left for the big details (if used at all) and the fine details should be multiple choice. You have to look at the reality of rendering and just how detailed the avatars are going to appear to the majority of people. Yes, a number of people would enjoy full customization of their toons, but I would argue they are not going to be a majority.
The majority are going to be okay with setting a look that fits their quick desires, and spending more time worrying about playing their character than making sure they are a unique snowflake.
Speaking of which, even if you only got to choose from 10 faces, 10 eye colors, 10 hair styles, 10 hair colors, 10 body types, and 10 skin tones, you would still be 1 in a million. That is, of course, only one race and only one gender of that race. So, with 14 million potential race/gender/face/eye/hair/body/skin combinations (not even counting classes), I'd be okay with rolling a character without sliders.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I love customization. I'm sure lots of people are already giving goblinworks loads of good ideas, so I'm just going to throw in my one unique request:
Please allow me to customize the collar and chain which my elven slave girl will be wearing. :D
One a more serious, less trollish note, I saw the comment often by female players that they appreciated DDO's character design system as it did not over-sexualize female avatars. I don't know, the males and females looked the same to me though...probably cause all my characters there are genderless warforged...
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would like to put forth a vote that we do not go for the WoW model, with cartoonish models.
I would also like to put forth a vote that models have a build similar to the Skyrim system in the facial features, and via sliders for the body-type. 'Heroic' (V shaped for the males, Hour-glass for the women), Normal (not fat or muscle or curves), Thin and Fat.
Isn't Pathfinder's art style kind of "cartoonish" though? I really like it and would be very sad if they went with something completely different for PFO.
As for customization I would love to see something like APB's system but I'll be perfectly happy with something in between APB's system and what SW:TOR has. And please, please, please let us customize our characters builds as much as possible, not being able to create the character you envisioned because of the game not allowing a sufficiently fat/slim/bulky/whatever body for you character is quite a big let down. Especially if you intend to RP. That being said I have faith that GW will try their very best to make sure that everyone can be happy with how their characters looks.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'll be a sad panda if Wayne Reynolds illustrations aren't at least inspiration for the character art style.
As to customization, they really blew open the options in champions online, with wide variety of shapes/gear, etc. The down side to that, i don't recall the ability to ever change that look, which is obviously sub-par.
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What concerns me is that pathfinder's art, while frankly awesome, is a little anime for my tastes. I REALLY hope this doesn't look like an anime RPG.
WoW has a very cartoony look, but the world looks beautiful in places and characters look pretty cool within that cartooniness.
Skyrim is beautiful beyond words, and looks much more realistic.
What these two games have in common is a western-centric aesthetic. While pathfinder does have quintessentially Eastern options sprinkled here and there (I'm looking at you, monk) it really is another take on the whole alternate medieval Europe idea. An anime/eastern looking game wouldn't make a shred of sense to me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd expect customization to come later, or at a price. The blogs make a strong point of emphasizing just how small their budget is. That doesn't mean no customization, but to make it commercially viable I'd expect to see it on a microtransaction level.
And free for monthly subscriptions (:
The only thing I see monthly subscriptions paying extra for is PvE modules.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't have a ton of experience with MMOs that have microtransaction systems, but those I do know work the other way around: PvE modules free for subscribers and outfit customization costing extra.
Makes sense economically since from what I've seen players tend to go a little nuts over customization, and more so because crafters and gatherers and builders won't be dungeon crawling much, but all players are going to be interested in customization.
Which would you pick if you were looking at your own bottom line?
I'm a big fan of keeping form and function as separate as possible. I don't like the idea of "classes" anyway, so I don't necessarily want people to look at my character and be able to determine my class by my physiology or attire. I can see how there is some importance in the fantasy genre to recognizing how a character is armed or armored, but I'd prefer to have as much control over my character's appearance as possible.
While I might be forced to be visibly wearing platemail if I have Full Plate equipped, I want to be able to go through the appearance editor and pick the styles, colors, and accoutrements of my platemail suit, preferably from options I've unlocked during play. Same goes for what my shield, or helmet, or boots, or tabard, or weapons look like.
Also, for uses of disguise spells, or armor that is magicked to look like clothing, I'd like to be able to even bypass the need to look like I'm wearing Full Plate. It would be even better if doing so were to cause NPCs to underestimate me, or be able to use such spell to avoid being recognized as someone who shouldn't be where I am, and not get automatically accosted.
The reverse is also true, as I might wish to play a wizard who's magical protection appears in the form of enchanted armor, or who wears illusionary armor to appear more robust (and like I'm not worth the risk to potential muggers) than I actually am.
I don't necessarily need a dozen different sliders to customize the tiniest details of facial structure... who's gonna look that close anyway? As long as I have a solid variety of variation (DDO and CoH are great, SWG was good aside from the inability to grow thicker facial hair than a 5 o'clock shadow).