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I want a Brevoy AP.
Due to the amazing success of Kingmaker, to hundreds of Paizo-fans, the River Kingdoms is their "first home." Other fans feel that way about Varisia, but there's five APs out or announced that take place there. The River Kingdoms has only one.
And Brevoy looks awesome. George R R Martin's Game of Thrones series is clearly inspiration for this region, and the book series and TV show are hugely popular right now.
There's a hunger for urban campaigns. Curse of the Crimson Throne is possibly the highest rated AP on the boards, and people loved the idea (if not the execution) of Council of Theives. I think Brevoy would be a wonderful place to set the next urban campaign.
The Slavic/Russian flavor of Brevoy is a great place to unleash some incredible creativity, and really dig into a specific culture's creatures and mythos. I can see some really nice support articles coming out of such a location.
And besides, any and all support articles from the Brevoy AP would be used as good background and sidequests for the Kingmaker AP.
We care about Brevoy. We know about Orlovsky, and their machinations towards the throne. We wonder about the disappearance of House Rogavaria, and want to know what happened there. The setting is already known; the fan-base is built-in. We want to do this.
Just something to consider.
Isn't RotRL one of the highest rated APs of all time?
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Not really high on my wish list to be honest. I'd far rather see an AP that revolves around some of the areas that haven't seen much attention already. Numeria, Nirmathas, Thuvia, Rahadoum, Druma, Nidal, Isger, Galt, Mendev. All of these places have never really had any attention and they look really cool.
Whilst we haven't had a direct Brevoy AP, Kingmaker has a lot of Brevoy inspired stuff in it. That's enough for me.
What I definately don't want to see more of are any more Varisian based AP's. Out of the 11 AP's that we know about, 5 of them are based wholly or in part in Varisia. Hell, even Serpent's Skull had the ship start out in Magnimar.
Don't get me wrong, Varisia is cool but I want some AP's based in other parts of the world after Shattered Star.
Devs, please no more Varisia. I get it, it's your favorite place in Golarion, but come on, 5/11 APs?
I definitely would love to see an political and/or urban AP set in Brevoy !!!
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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While I love me some Brevoy from the pure setting flavor, I find it hard to imagine a successful AP set in the relatively settled and closed environment. APs are action-driven because frankly, that is what Pathfinder is best at. A courtly intrigue AP would not only discard that strength to a large degree, but put many groups into an uncomfortable spot.
It's great fun to read about intrigue, double-dealings and backstabbings, but for many players, RPGs are a power fantasy. Taking them for a ride, and having their love one's poisoned, names smeared and ultimately denied justice for the greater good is not going to go over well on most the tables I played at.
They have a trend of introducing new supplements to go along with the AP line while still allowing a good number of them to stand alone. There will of course still be stops in Varisia here and there, Shattered Star and Magnimar: City of Monuments, to help flesh out more of the area in detail. I personally do not think there is enough (financially) to warrant mining from the River Kingdoms after the treatment given in the Kingmaker AP and the rather meaty Guide to the River Kingdoms. I feel that Brevoy just does not deviate far from what has been, or is planned for, in the AP line. I think Nex/Mana Wastes/Geb is the prime untouched Inner Sea area just begging to be the next sandbox style AP when compared to most of the other untouched areas.
You have at a minimum:
- Two old enemy counties separated by a neutral buffer zone. It just so happens that the city-state of Alkenstar is a very fascinating location.
- The various factions fighting for control of Nex.
- The vast number of undead in Geb.
Perhaps even a second book of Inner Sea Magic, with an expanded necromancy section of course.
Council of Thieves
- Princes of Darkness, Book of the Damned Volume 1
- Cheliax, Empire of Devils
- Council of Thieves Map Folio
Kingmaker
- Guide to the River Kingdoms
- Kingmaker Poster Map Folio
Serpent's Skull
- Heart of the Jungle
- Sargava, The Lost Colony
- Serpent's Skull Poster Map Folio
Carrion Crown
- Rule of Fear
- Undead Revisited
- Carrion Crown Poster Map Folio
Jade Regent
- We Be Goblins!
- Lands of the Linnorm Kings
- Dragon Empires Primer
- Dragon Empires Gazetteer
- Jade Regent Poster Map Folio
Skull and Shackles
- Pirates of the Inner Sea
- Isles of the Shackles
- Skull and Shackles Poster Map Folio
Rise of the Rune Lords Anniversary Edition
- Magnimar: City of Monuments
Shattered Star
- Magnimar: City of Monuments ?
- Lost Lands (Includes info on Thassilon sites which gives some general connection.)
- Shattered Star Poster Map Folio
I want a Brevoy AP.
Just something to consider.
YES! Also, isn´t there a civil-war brewing ? I´d like to see a campaign with military action.
Yes a war campaign in Brevoy will be nice. Geb campaign would also be nice. Even a Brevoy Adventure would make me happy.
@Freund, ditto! You're comment on the Game of Thrones was exactly what I was thinking too. When I read about Silverhall, a crazy number of ideas rolled into my head.
@Red, exactly! With the Kingmaker AP, we see how mass battles can be run. The battles don't have to "fix" the story or change what is going on, but it would keep it interesting even if someone might have a home game going on in that part of the world.
I think that an AP in this area would play very well.
I'd like it and it would be an opportunity to flesh out the 'Swordlords' a bit more.
I would too.
I can say that as I read through the support materials for Kingmaker, I found that the more that I read about Brevoy the more I wanted to have it play into the game.
I LOVE the idea of political intrigue, and I really like the idea of a full scale civil war breaking out.
I would be quite happy with that.
I would also recommend that they go away from the large scale combat for this one and instead focus on what a small squad of soldiers/freedom fighters could do.
Sean Mahoney
I think I'd prefer to see more of some of the other big regions of the Inner Sea... most preferably on Avistan, though, I am not that big a fan of Garund. Taldor would be a fascinating place, seeing how it is the Byzantium equivalent to our world. Or how about Andoran? Hell, I'd love to have an AP centered on Absalom, that would be a urban AP I'd like to play. Alternatively one centered on Kaer Maga.
<sigh> So many possibilities.
I'd love to have an AP centered on Absalom, that would be a urban AP I'd like to play.
James and Sean have been quite explicit that Absalom is the "PFS playground" and won't likely get any module or AP support going forward. (Though there are some 3.5 modules set there, like Gallery of Evil and Hangman's Noose.)
To get back on the Brevoy topic: in the time since I made the OP, the MMO has been announced, which takes place in the River Kingdoms. I think that's the closest we're going to get for awhile.
<baseless thought>Once the MMO has been out and popular for a bit and interest is back together, I bet we'll see a Brevoy tie-in AP or somesuch as a way to grow the PnP market amongst the online players.</baseless thought>
I'd love to have an AP centered on Absalom, that would be a urban AP I'd like to play.James and Sean have been quite explicit that Absalom is the "PFS playground" and won't likely get any module or AP support going forward. (Though there are some 3.5 modules set there, like Gallery of Evil and Hangman's Noose.)
That's a damn shame and withholds one of their most interesting places of their world from people who are not members of PFS.
I had just today a player complainabout the lack of memorable recurring characters in Golarion and I think Absalom would be one of the places to find them.
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I'd love to have an AP centered on Absalom, that would be a urban AP I'd like to play.James and Sean have been quite explicit that Absalom is the "PFS playground" and won't likely get any module or AP support going forward. (Though there are some 3.5 modules set there, like Gallery of Evil and Hangman's Noose.)That's a damn shame and withholds one of their most interesting places of their world from people who are not members of PFS.
I had just today a player complainabout the lack of memorable recurring characters in Golarion and I think Absalom would be one of the places to find them.
I think your player is missing the point of Golarion. The NPC's aren't there to be memorable; they're there to support the party's adventures. I think one of Golarion's biggest strengths is that it doesn't have any Elminsters running around in it.
I think your player is missing the point of Golarion. The NPC's aren't there to be memorable; they're there to support the party's adventures. I think one of Golarion's biggest strengths is that it doesn't have any Elminsters running around in it.
That was explicitly one of the things he complained about. No memorable NPC's, no metaplot, no advancement of the world. And I can't really say that I disagree. The world feels too static. Not much moves forward, no big wars between nations ( besides Molthune/Nirmathas, which seems to be going on eternally ), no archmages plotting against each other.
I know some people like the idea of the PC's being the only ones who do anything of note, but at least for me that makes the world less immersive. If there are such powerful forces of evil running around, there need to be some equally powerful heroes pushing back. And it cannot all fall on the PC's shoulders, who conveniently advance in a way where they don't get stepped on by some of the more mightier things running around.
I like Golarions setting a lot, but it really feels like it could need a few kicks to make it feel more alive. Giving players a few memorable and powerful good NPC's to look up to would help. IMO, of course.
And, yeah, for me the strength of the Forgotten Realms was that it had Elminster, the Seven Sisters and more of those guys running around. I wish Golarion would be more like that.
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I think your player is missing the point of Golarion. The NPC's aren't there to be memorable; they're there to support the party's adventures. I think one of Golarion's biggest strengths is that it doesn't have any Elminsters running around in it.That was explicitly one of the things he complained about. No memorable NPC's, no metaplot, no advancement of the world. And I can't really say that I disagree. The world feels too static. Not much moves forward, no big wars between nations ( besides Molthune/Nirmathas, which seems to be going on eternally ), no archmages plotting against each other.
I know some people like the idea of the PC's being the only ones who do anything of note, but at least for me that makes the world less immersive. If there are such powerful forces of evil running around, there need to be some equally powerful heroes pushing back. And it cannot all fall on the PC's shoulders, who conveniently advance in a way where they don't get stepped on by some of the more mightier things running around.
I like Golarions setting a lot, but it really feels like it could need a few kicks to make it feel more alive. Giving players a few memorable and powerful good NPC's to look up to would help. IMO, of course.
And, yeah, for me the strength of the Forgotten Realms was that it had Elminster, the Seven Sisters and more of those guys running around. I wish Golarion would be more like that.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. This is just a playstyle difference between us, and I don't think either one of has an objectively better position than the other.
Personally, I don't like either the old Forgotten Realms or the changes they made for 4e. I don't like the Harpers and Elminster and all of the high-level good guys running around because it makes the threats seem so much less dangerous. There's no real reason to strive against villains like Halaster or Manshoon or the Red Wizards, since all of those level 30+ NPC heroes probably won't let their evil plans go too far anyway. It bothers me quite a bit that the strongest forces for good are stronger than the strongest forces for evil without any help from the PC's. The ongoing metaplot, at least to me, seems to force the PC's out of the limelight, since the plot will always advance a certain way regardless of what they do. You can certainly make changes at the lower level and in local areas, but the players can never star in a plot that covers all of Faerun because there are more qualified heroes out there who are motivated to stop evil.
Also, the fact that every major player in the world is above level 20 puts me off as well (at least in the 3rd edition version, which is the version with which I am most familiar). The PC's are practically guaranteed they'll never be powerful enough to fight the actual major villains, since the game is designed for levels 1-20 and it's a pain to work beyond those bounds. This is another area where I prefer Golarion's style. According to Magic of the Inner Sea, Razmir is only a 19th level Wizard. One of the most powerful evil mages in the world and certainly the most vicious tyrant in the northeastern Avistan isn't epic level. A well-built 15th or 16th level party can challenge him, and they don't even have to break the framework of the game to do so. It makes the major portions of the setting so much more accessible to individual campaigns when every major NPC and his dog isn't a CR 20+ opponent.
However, I still object to the changes WotC made to Forgotten Realms in 4th Edition. Although they mostly resolved my complaints of too many gods (another subject for another time) and too many powerful NPC's, it was unfair of them to change the world that drastically. While old FR isn't my cup of tea, I recognize that people like you enjoy it quite a bit, and there's nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of settings that I do like, such as Eberron and Golarion, out there as it is without having to butcher existing ones into a form I enjoy. Let Forgotten Realms be Forgotten Realms, and let Golarion be Golarion. I don't want a ton of Elminsters in Golarion any more than I want them removed from FR. It contradicts each setting's greatest strength and appeal and accomplishes nothing but half-satisfying fans of the opposite setting.
Derail aside, I would be in favor of a Brevoy RP. It could be a great political intrigue campaign, something I'm not sure Paizo has done yet.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. This is just a playstyle difference between us, and I don't think either one of has an objectively better position than the other.
Luckily for you, the developers are on your side. For now. :p
Personally, I don't like either the old Forgotten Realms or the changes they made for 4e. I don't like the Harpers and Elminster and all of the high-level good guys running around because it makes the threats seem so much less dangerous. There's no real reason to strive against villains like Halaster or Manshoon or the Red Wizards, since all of those level 30+ NPC heroes probably won't let their evil plans go too far anyway. It bothers me quite a bit that the strongest forces for good are stronger than the strongest forces for evil without any help from the PC's. The ongoing metaplot, at least to me, seems to force the PC's out of the limelight, since the plot will always advance a certain way regardless of what they do. You can certainly make changes at the lower level and in local areas, but the players can never star in a plot that covers all of Faerun because there are more qualified heroes out there who are motivated to stop evil.
I guess we may be looking at this from different perspectives on campaigns, too. I am looking at this from the perspective of the AP's, you seem to be doing so from the perspective of homebrewn campaigns.
AP's so far never move the world in a way where the PC's can do anything beyond affecting local outcomes or maybe save their region from the threat of an emerging disaster. The "canon" outcomes of the AP's are always positive, because there is close to no metaplot happening in the world and the world has to remain as static as possible for the next AP in line. This "staticness" is what irked my player ( and me ).
If you do homebrewn campaigns, you have much more freedom to visit all over Golarion and affect things on a much larger scale. I can understand how it would be irksome for you then to think that larger-than-life heroes are doing more than your group to change the destiny of Golarion.
I agree with you that "big heroes" like Elminster and cohorts shouldn't be more powerful than the BEG's.
Also, the fact that every major player in the world is above level 20 puts me off as well (at least in the 3rd edition version, which is the version with which I am most familiar). The PC's are practically guaranteed they'll never be powerful enough to fight the actual major villains, since the game is designed for levels 1-20 and it's a pain to work beyond those bounds. This is another area where I prefer Golarion's style. According to Magic of the Inner Sea, Razmir is only a 19th level Wizard. One of the most powerful evil mages in the world and certainly the most vicious tyrant in the northeastern Avistan isn't epic level. A well-built 15th or 16th level party can challenge him, and they don't even have to break the framework of the game to do so. It makes the major portions of the setting so much more accessible to individual campaigns when every major NPC and his dog isn't a CR 20+ opponent.
Oh, there are absolutely enough BEG's running around on Golarion. But there's a distinct lack of good NPC's of high level, who also have memorable personalities and can be encountered in a recurring role. I agree that they don't need to be above level 20, but they should exist.
However, I still object to the changes WotC made to Forgotten Realms in 4th Edition. Although they mostly resolved my complaints of too many gods (another subject for another time) and too many powerful NPC's, it was unfair of them to change the world that drastically. While old FR isn't my cup of tea, I recognize that people like you enjoy it quite a bit, and there's nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of settings that I do like, such as Eberron and Golarion, out there as it is without having to butcher existing ones into a form I enjoy. Let Forgotten Realms be Forgotten Realms, and let Golarion be Golarion. I don't want a ton of Elminsters in Golarion any more than I want them removed from FR. It contradicts each setting's greatest strength and appeal and accomplishes nothing but half-satisfying fans of the opposite setting.
As I said, I don't need someone of Elminsters overpoweredness, but more memorable NPC's which are either more powerful than the PC's or at least stay at their level would be nice. I think the only NPC so far from Paizo AP's which I won't easily forget is Laori Vaus.