This page might be useful.
Neutral Good deities
I think the bigger problem is that the amount of Good beings in general (not just Neutral Good) is pathetically small compared to all the evil ones (there are the demon lords, the archdevils, the malebranche, the horsemen...the list goes on). Also, I can't help but feel slightly bothered about there being not one, but TWO (maybe even more if I recall right) gods who have "rape" in their portfolios. That's just wrong, especially given that one of those beings is Lawful Evil...
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I think the bigger problem is that the amount of Good beings in general (not just Neutral Good) is pathetically small compared to all the evil ones (there are the demon lords, the archdevils, the malebranche, the horsemen...the list goes on). Also, I can't help but feel slightly bothered about there being not one, but TWO (maybe even more if I recall right) gods who have "rape" in their portfolios. That's just wrong, especially given that one of those beings is Lawful Evil...
What's wrong with rape*?
* as a divine portfolio
Aside from the obvious...
...why would a devil care about rapists? I can understand it in the case of that one succubus demon lord (and with that one ogre deity), but a devil? They're more conniving than that, and I'm sure they'd rather charm a woman than just take her by force. It sounds more diabolical and fitting for a devil-worshipper. Also, why are you trying to derail the thread? The discussion was supposed to be about Good-aligned beings, and I would rather speak about them than about rapist Fiends and their disgusting worshippers.
I'm actually finding these clashings to be amusing by this part.
Anyway, I'm still having trouble deciding whether my Ninja should worship Sivanah or Shelyn instead of Norgorber. All the fitting domains and portfolios seem to belong to evil beings, and there aren't really any good deities to worship for someone who's a generally nice person with friends and acquaintances, but has no problem slitting throats if that's what's needed to kill evil beings (or being constantly in disguise like a real-life ninja and not some silly fiction ninja wearing an all-black suit or orange clothing).
That aside, I wouldn't mind seeing some angelic forces similar to the nascent demon lords or infernal dukes to give some more roleplaying options for the good guys.
I'm actually finding these clashings to be amusing by this part.
Anyway, I'm still having trouble deciding whether my Ninja should worship Sivanah or Shelyn instead of Norgorber. All the fitting domains and portfolios seem to belong to evil beings, and there aren't really any good deities to worship for someone who's a generally nice person with friends and acquaintances, but has no problem slitting throats if that's what's needed to kill evil beings (or being constantly in disguise like a real-life ninja and not some silly fiction ninja wearing an all-black suit or orange clothing).
It depends on your character's level of faith, I suppose. Your character is not a Cleric or Paladin so there's nothing stopping him/her from worshipping whatever god he/she chooses; being at once cut-throat and devoted to Shelyn's ideals could indeed be the source of an interesting internal conflict. Sivanah would be quite appropriate for a Ninja, in any case.
That aside, I wouldn't mind seeing some angelic forces similar to the nascent demon lords or infernal dukes to give some more roleplaying options for the good guys.
Empyreal Lords?
Empyreal Lords are the angelic equivalent of Demon lords.
I just realized that there are no angelic equivalents to the Nascent Demon Lords or to the Infernal Dukes. There are Demon Lords, Horsemen, Archfiends and Empyreal Lords, but as you can see, the bad guys have the good guys outnumbered pretty badly.
Sarenrae was at one time an Empyreal Lord. Which is why she is so angelic in appearance. The Empyreal Lord could be vastly more powerful then the avarge demon lord. However, I feel that evil is easier and the good guys are suppose to be outnumbered.
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I just realized that there are no angelic equivalents to the Nascent Demon Lords or to the Infernal Dukes. There are Demon Lords, Horsemen, Archfiends and Empyreal Lords, but as you can see, the bad guys have the good guys outnumbered pretty badly.
I would like to see some morally neutral elemental lords and animal lords, like from the Elric novels. The Elemental Lords being evil seems like an embarassment of riches, after the Demon Lords, Archdevils and Daemon Horsemen.
Similarly, a few good aligned members of the Eldest would have been a neat touch. There being two *lawful* members of the eldest fae was odd enough (since I think of fey as being about as chaotic as it gets), but all of them being neutral or evil seemed also weighted in a strange direction, since the First World, to me, feels like the planar opposite to the Plane of Shadow, a place where everything is brighter and louder and more energetic and alive, in contrast to the Plane of Shadow, where everything is dim and muted and suppressed. I expected more evil and law in the Plane of Shadow (but not exclusively!) and more good and chaos in the First World (but, again, not exclusively!).
In any event, more Empyreal Lords, and some specific higher Angels, Archons and Azata, could open up new possibilities (both mechanical and RP) for players of good characters, who, in theory, the game is supposed to encourage.
In any event, more Empyreal Lords, and some specific higher Angels, Archons and Azata, could open up new possibilities (both mechanical and RP) for players of good characters, who, in theory, the game is supposed to encourage.
I am gonna agree with this. If powerful demon lords can have clerics and grant spells. Then Empyreal Lords should be able to as well. They even have domains, favored wepons and " portfolios" I say they are ment to be used as such.
Slightly unrelated, but I feel the Empyreal Lords as a group or those under them oversee paladins without a pardon god. To me it just fits and makes sense.
I just realized that there are no angelic equivalents to the Nascent Demon Lords or to the Infernal Dukes. There are Demon Lords, Horsemen, Archfiends and Empyreal Lords, but as you can see, the bad guys have the good guys outnumbered pretty badly.
I think the Empyreal lords are supposed to be a bit stronger and work together better.
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The Empyreal Lords definitely work well together. Demons and devils may hate each other, but archons, agathions, azatas, and angels gladly work together against evil, despite their differences.
I agree that there need to be nicer Eldest, and non-evil Elemental Lords would be good, too. Ultimately, I think the big problem is that most players and DMs (and designers) don't want patrons, allies, helpers, etc. They want adversaries. Check my "Let's use celestials" thread. I had one idea for an agathion adventure-making patron, but nearly every other idea was how to turn celestials into opponents.
We've got enough opponents. We can do plenty with opponents. Making new opponents is easy.
Let's start seeing awesome, interesting, FUN allies.
Probably the biggest problem is that the easiest way to demonstrate power is to demonstrate combat prowess. This suggests the "DMPC killsteals from PCs" idea, which is no fun. We need more ways to be awesome that don't require combat prowess. That's the design challenge, and it's a good and worthy one.
I see references to gods and lesser gods and such in this thread. Where is the complete pantheon(s)? Certainly not in the CRB. Are these references from 3rd party publishers or official Paizo stuff?
It's setting specific for the official Paizo setting of Golarion.
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I see references to gods and lesser gods and such in this thread. Where is the complete pantheon(s)? Certainly not in the CRB. Are these references from 3rd party publishers or official Paizo stuff?
As far as I remember, Golarion doesn't specifically label any gods as 'greater' or 'lesser' (or intermediate or demi, for that matter, and certainly not to their faces!), but the 'big 20' in the core rulebook are generally 'greater' than the rest, granting their clerics five domains.
All of the demon lords, archdevils, empyreal lords, daemon horsemen, elemental lords and eldest (which can be found in various places, such as the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting, or the newer Inner Sea World Guide, as well as on the Wiki) grant only four domains each, and could be considered 'lesser' or 'demi' gods.
Random other gods are available in the Inner Sea World Guide (such as Achaekek and Groetus and Milani), or Gods & Magic (elven and dwarven racial gods, etc.), and grant anywhere from two to five domains, although usually closer to four or five.
