Vicious weapon - am I reading too much into it?


Rules Questions


PRD wrote:

Vicious: When a vicious weapon strikes an opponent, it creates a flash of disruptive energy that resonates between the opponent and the wielder. This energy deals an extra 2d6 points of damage to the opponent and 1d6 points of damage to the wielder. Only melee weapons can be vicious.

Moderate necromancy; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, enervation; Price +1 bonus.

Hmm... since Enervation is needed for creation, the resonating damage might be negative energy... which would cause quite some... interesting effects if used by, or against, a member of the Undead...

Am I just over-interpreting things?


The damage is untyped, and thus has no additional effect on undead. The spell requirement for item creation is sometimes a bit odd as they look for something, anything, that would fit the item.


I'd say that's logical. But that's just me.


Yeah the damage is untyped, however if you could get a dm approval...

Hafling cleric of death with a Str of 5 and a +1 vicious dagger does 1d3-2 +2d6 negative, and takes a d6 negative once he gets the ability to heal from negative energy that'd be pretty fun. For a minute at least.


Diskordant wrote:
Hafling cleric of death with a Str of 5 and a +1 vicious dagger does 1d3-2 +2d6 negative, and takes a d6 negative once he gets the ability to heal from negative energy that'd be pretty fun. For a minute at least.

That's exactly why I believe the negative energy reading to be overpowered. Let's imagine that necromancer merrily stabbing his undead with the dagger.

Undead takes 1d3-2 piercing damage, regains 2d6 hp due to negative energy; Necromancer gains 1d6 from nagative on his own... Yee-ha! Infiite healing!


I think it used to be negative energy in 3.x. This may be one of those unintendedly almost broken things that got fixed in Pathfinder.
I may be wrong but I distinctly remember fighting something like a skeletal warrior that abused something viscious to abuse my poor bard. Afterward the DM pointed out that it could've been worse if the undead had just used it to heal it's minions. Making the fight drag on forever or some such.

The Exchange

Of course, leaving it 'untyped' energy leads to debates on how this energy interacts with DR. Maybe they should've labeled it 'force' energy, like magic missiles, and made that the spell requirement, eh?


Midnight_Angel wrote:
PRD wrote:

Vicious: When a vicious weapon strikes an opponent, it creates a flash of disruptive energy that resonates between the opponent and the wielder. This energy deals an extra 2d6 points of damage to the opponent and 1d6 points of damage to the wielder. Only melee weapons can be vicious.

Moderate necromancy; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, enervation; Price +1 bonus.

Hmm... since Enervation is needed for creation, the resonating damage might be negative energy... which would cause quite some... interesting effects if used by, or against, a member of the Undead...

Am I just over-interpreting things?

The main reason for the enervation is not based upon the damage type so much as based upon the enervation concept that the weapon is doing 1d6 damage do you when it creates this effect. The damage type is purely un-typed and has no negative energy component to it, even if the assumption is that the weapon creation process requires the conceptual effect of the enervation spell.


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Quote:
I think it used to be negative energy in 3.x. This may be one of those unintendedly almost broken things that got fixed in Pathfinder.

No, it didn't.

Liberty's Edge

Yes, you're reading too much into it. It does what it says it does, no more, no less.
-Kle.


Midnight_Angel wrote:
PRD wrote:

Vicious: When a vicious weapon strikes an opponent, it creates a flash of disruptive energy that resonates between the opponent and the wielder. This energy deals an extra 2d6 points of damage to the opponent and 1d6 points of damage to the wielder. Only melee weapons can be vicious.

Moderate necromancy; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, enervation; Price +1 bonus.

Hmm... since Enervation is needed for creation, the resonating damage might be negative energy... which would cause quite some... interesting effects if used by, or against, a member of the Undead...

Am I just over-interpreting things?

It does make sense to be Negative Energy and even if you could heal the undead I think it would be ok since you would still take 1d6 damage back.


Karse wrote:
It does make sense to be Negative Energy and even if you could heal the undead I think it would be ok since you would still take 1d6 damage back.

Ah, but if I am undead myself, or otherwise get healed by negative energy, I am suddenly healing myself as well...


Lincoln Hills wrote:
Of course, leaving it 'untyped' energy leads to debates on how this energy interacts with DR. Maybe they should've labeled it 'force' energy, like magic missiles, and made that the spell requirement, eh?

It is energy damage. Read the sentence about damage.


Cheapy wrote:
Lincoln Hills wrote:
Of course, leaving it 'untyped' energy leads to debates on how this energy interacts with DR. Maybe they should've labeled it 'force' energy, like magic missiles, and made that the spell requirement, eh?
It is energy damage. Read the sentence about damage.

Agree.. how does this not work with DR? It is energy damage, bypasses DR. There is no type so it can't be resisted against.

Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

You are trying to be overly clever. If it's not applying a specific type of energy damage just add it to the base weapons damage.

Liberty's Edge

Since the additional damage is untyped, I believe that it follows the usual rules for untyped additional damage such as Sneak Attack's dice, ie the type of the additional damage is the same as the type of the weapon's base damage.

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