Let me start by saying that I searched and didn't find anything on point, though I'm sure this has come up before. Here's the question:
Suppose I want to take Feat X. Feat X has a prerequisite of Class Ability Y. My Character gains class ability Y at 5th level. At 5th level, every character gains a new Feat. Can my character acquire Feat X at the same time he acquires the prerequisite class ability? In other words, how strictly are we supposed to construe the "pre" in "PRErequisite"? Do I have to gain the class ability first, and then pick up the feat at a subsequent level? Or can I take the feat as soon as I pick up the crucial prerequisite?
What say you? (Hoping it is the latter).
Kelvar
... Can my character acquire Feat X at the same time he acquires the prerequisite class ability? ...
Yes
What say you? (Hoping it is the latter).
It is the latter.
Yes.
When adding new levels of an existing class or adding levels of a new class (see Multiclassing, below), make sure to take the following steps in order. First, select your new class level. You must be able to qualify for this level before any of the following adjustments are made. Second, apply any ability score increases due to gaining a level. Third, integrate all of the level's class abilities and then roll for additional hit points. Finally, add new skills and feats. For more information on when you gain new feats and ability score increases, see Table: Character Advancement and Level-Dependent Bonuses.
And for the follow up question's answer, if a feat requires 5 ranks in a skill, you can take it at 5th level if you have those ranks.
yes.
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It's been ruled before that if a class gives you a choice of bonus feats, the choice of those feats is made during the "allocate skills and feats" step of the leveling up process, not the "add new class abilities" step.
So suppose at level 7 you got to select a bonus feat from some specific list of feats, and you need to meet prerequisites. You can first allocate skill ranks and get your level 7 normal feat, before testing if you qualify for the bonus feat you'd like to select.
I don't see any ethical issues in taking a prestige class at the same level as you take your skill ranks so lang as those ranks are met, but your dm may not like it.
As for the they stuff, yes you can take eldrich heritage at the same level you gain an ability score increase technically, if you gain a feat somehow on that level
it's because the prestige class would be giving you the skill points needed to qualify it. Thus you can't take it and have it qualify for itself.
it's because the prestige class would be giving you the skill points needed to qualify it. Thus you can't take it and have it qualify for itself.
This :)
And because, let's say, you need 5 ranks of X skill. You cannot have a skill cap of 5 until you have selected the class you are adding to become level 5, meaning that you are still technically level 4 with a skill cap of 4.
Does this also apply to prerequisite feats for another feat. For example can I take Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Aldori Dueling Sword and Aldori Weapon Master (Prereq: Exotic prof) at the same time for a level 1 fighter?
Most definitely. You have to remember there is always a "timeline" to character progression. Your character is still learning one before the other, but gaining two feats at the same level-up definitely feels instantaneous on the paper.
It also helps to discuss the level up process with your DM, there are a couple variations out there. Some DMs opt for the instantaneous "ding" level ups similar to video games. The logic (generally) being that all your adventuring is the training and practice needed to hone your skills. Your abilities grow and evolve on the fly.
Others prefer the "classic" style, where leveling up is only done during a period of downtime, where PCs have time to work on their advancement, sometimes with the aid of guilds, sects, orders, trainers etc. Your abilities grow and evolve in a set period or timeframe.
Either way, your character doesn't just wake up one morning suddenly knowing how to dual weild. He's been slowly increasing his skill, fight after fight. Learning that new feat is merely a reflection of months of practice. Perhaps in his off time he's been practicing and mock dueling his friends with that new exotic weapon in hopes of using it in the future. Maybe he knows if he masters it he will also have a much easier time dual wielding the blades. The act of "leveling up" is merely him breaking that threshold of skill.
There is a lot of storytelling done by the players too. I know this is a rules forum, for clarification purposes, but it really feels like these details are often overlooked as being "fluff" in the RAW vs RAI debates.