PFS#3-06 Song of the Sea Witch [Spoilers]


GM Discussion

Lantern Lodge 4/5

one of the encounters provides higher statblock damage in Tier 3-4 than it does for Tier 6-7:

Spoiler:
p13 - Frigid Burst Trap

Subtier 3-4: jets of freezing cold water (5d6 cold damage)

Subtier 6-7: jets of freezing cold water (3d6 cold damage)

i'm assuming one or both of these are incorrect - maybe they were supposed to be reversed?

Edit: sorry, on further reading, this may be correct:

Spoiler:
The subtier 3-4 version lasts only one round;

The subtier 6-7 version lasts three rounds!

Cheers,
Stephen (DarkWhite)

5/5

Stephen White wrote:

one of the encounters provides higher statblock damage in Tier 3-4 than it does for Tier 6-7:** spoiler omitted **i'm assuming one or both of these are incorrect - maybe they were supposed to be reversed?

Edit: sorry, on further reading, this may be correct:

** spoiler omitted **

Cheers,
Stephen (DarkWhite)

Yeah, that struck me as funny as well till I realized the overall difference. There's also the higher DC's for the 6-7 encounter in all aspects. I'm hoping to run this next weekend at our local store.

EDIT:
I did have one question myself though, I can't find where the BBEG is supposed to start the encounter.

Spoiler:
He's basically deaf (at least severely penalized on hearing)from the ongoing ritual, but he's supposed to react and be able to force his way through the door to get back to the pool room. I'm just not sure how this was intended to work out.

Lantern Lodge 4/5

Sniggevert wrote:
I'm hoping to run this next weekend at our local store.

I've just returned home after running it at my local store, we payed Tier 6-7. It was a good game, challenging, flavourful, interesting.

At the mention of Yargos having stumbled upon forbidden knowledge, players who had played the previous scenario groaned "oh no, not again", and agreed to the mission on the proviso that he wouldn't be allowed unsupervised access to dangerous knowledge again.

The players had a tough time with the first encounter, the opponent had resistenaces to many of the party's strengths, but also one player continually goaded their opponent, so I focused all my attacks on that one character. He fell to staggered, had back-up with a wand of cure behind him, fell to unconscious, was wanded up again - he was up and down like a yoyo, and each time he insulted his opponent more. So I was surprised when I hit him again, and he said "okay, my character's dead now". "Huh? I thought your character could take a beating?" "Nope, he's dead". "Are you sure?" I felt real bad, I never meant to kill him, just responding to his challenge, and the opponent was killed the next round anyway, if I'd have spread the attacks among more party members, his character would still be alive. He didn't really mind, though, he had the PA to pay for resurrect.

Sniggevert wrote:
I did have one question myself though, I can't find where the BBEG is supposed to start the encounter.

Spoiler:
It would be nice to have starting position marked on the map. Also note: the map is 10' to a square, not the usual 5' scale. I assumed the BBEG was studying the book when the party entered. The party try to shout over the cacophany, Diplomacy didn't seem to be working, so roll for initiative, the players close to attack, the creature grapples one character and I follow tactics as written trying to move toward the pool. However, you can only move at half speed while carrying a grappled creature, and require a grapple check (standard action) to do so, so movement was tedious, and can't really do other actions while doing so. The party were beating him up every round, and he was just dragging his grappled opponent a square or two closer to the pool each round. Obviously not a good tactic, might have worked had I moved him closer to the door, either at the start of combat, or during combat (the party would have followed to attack) before grappling. He ended up surrendering when brought low on hp. I'll probably run his tactics different next time I run this encounter.

Cheers,
Stephen (DarkWhite)

Paizo Employee 5/5 Canadian Maplecakes

Stephen, you're correct on the traps. They are working as intended ;)

I'm glad you're group had a good time with this module, it was a blast to write, and Mark gave me a really good premise to work with!

My apologies on the location of the BBEG. Here's how I handled it during my playtest run...

BBEG Spoiler:
I assumed the BBEG would be located by the book during the final ceremony. I wanted to give GMs a bit of chance to move him around depending on how the players entered the room, so I didn't put him on the map.

When I ran the encounter during our playtest run through the module, the PCs were indeed able to diplomacy down the Sea Witch after quickly shutting the book. Luckily, the player controlling Ezren (we used Pre-Gens) ended their successful diplomacy with, "I'm glad we see eye to eye on this. Sadly, we're here on a mission of playtesting. Fireball."

It was one of the most hilarious gaming moments in recent history for my group. :)

5/5

Thanks for the responses guys. It's what I had assumed, but didn't know how it would play out.

Spoiler:
I think I'll wait for the grapple and have him work towards the water after diplomacy breaks down (playtest or not ;))but before grabbing someone. Players are bound to chase somewhat to melee him in an open room.

I does sound like you had a good group there Stephen, and when the players beg for attention you got to let them have it =p

Lantern Lodge 4/5

Thanks for the reply, Thursty.

Spoiler:
There were a few conflicting aspects to this encounter. 1) noise vs diplomacy; 2) movement/speed while grappling vs need to protect the book vs location/distance to travel. Not huge problems in and of themselves, but certainly conditions that can affect the outcome of the encounter. I think seeing how it played out once, gives me options/tactics to keep in the back of my mind for next time I run it.
Sniggevert wrote:
I does sound like you had a good group there Stephen, and when the players beg for attention you got to let them have it =p
myself wrote:
He didn't really mind, though, he had the PA to pay for resurrect.

Yeah, I do have a good group (shout out to the Blackburn guys!) but Deluge is a good friend who also GMs a good number of scenarios himself, and I know he's just waiting to return the favour ;-)

Dark Archive 3/5

Thursty wrote:

Stephen, you're correct on the traps. They are working as intended ;)

I'm glad you're group had a good time with this module, it was a blast to write, and Mark gave me a really good premise to work with!

My apologies on the location of the BBEG. Here's how I handled it during my playtest run...

** spoiler omitted **

Having just completed running this myself I had the same idea about the BBEG's movement issues, and this is how I ran it...

spoiler:
Since his tentacles have Grab as a special ability I just rotated single attacking the target with a tentacle. He hit's gets a free grapple check from that and then make a mave action to go his full 30'. The party had 2 rounds to stop him before he dove in the water (with the party mage).

Will admit the TWF Ranger & Sniper Rogue really had problems trying to save the wizard in the water. A good bluff check to play dead was the only thing that let the wizard live.

Overall I liked it, was a hoot to run and I saw real panic in my players eyes when that first challenge popped up with those bleed attacks.

Lantern Lodge 4/5

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Having just completed running this myself I had the same idea about the BBEG's movement issues, and this is how I ran it...

** spoiler omitted **

Hi Mathwei,

My concern with this encounter was:

Spoiler:
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document wrote:

Grapple

Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).

Move: You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed.

The thing is, to move half speed (eg, 15') while grappling someone, requires a grapple check as a standard action. The BBEG can't move his full 30' while grappling an opponent. This was quite limiting.

Cheers,

Stephen (DarkWhite)

Dark Archive 3/5

Stephen White wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Having just completed running this myself I had the same idea about the BBEG's movement issues, and this is how I ran it...

** spoiler omitted **

Hi Mathwei,

My concern with this encounter was:** spoiler omitted **Cheers,
Stephen (DarkWhite)

Understood but there's a bit of confusion that may help

Spoiler:
Remember this opponent has the Grab special ability, allowing him to make 2 separate grapple checks each round as free actions instead of standard.

Swing 1 tentacle and hit -> initiate free grapple check and succeed -> swing 2nd tentacle and hit -> perform second grapple check that round at +5 -> use the results of that grapple check to move target 15 feet.

Next round release 1 tentacle (free action) and hit him again and do another free grapple check (target is grappled so this is a maintain check) if you succeed move 15 ft -> release other tentacle and repeat.

As long as you keep hitting with those tentacles you can slap them 30 ft across the floor every round (that +9 to grapple checks really helps).

The relevant line under grapple is:

Quote:
Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).

Grapple becomes nasty when you have the Grab ability and change it from standard actions to free actions.

Grand Lodge 5/5 *

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Stephen White wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Having just completed running this myself I had the same idea about the BBEG's movement issues, and this is how I ran it...

** spoiler omitted **

Hi Mathwei,

My concern with this encounter was:** spoiler omitted **Cheers,
Stephen (DarkWhite)

Understood but there's a bit of confusion that may help

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

I'm not sure that's how grab functions. On the other hand, I'm not sure that *isn't* how grab functions. Here's my problem;

Grab: 'If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.' (bolding mine)

Now, if it can only start a grapple with the free grab action, then it can't do as Mathwei suggests, as the second check is a maintain action.

Also, nothing in the wording of grab says you get to maintain the grapple as a free action.

Finally, if it could make 2 grapple checks in one round using grab, it still wouldn't get the +5 on the second check:

'If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds.' (bolding mine)

As always, fuzzy wording, I could be wrong, etc.

Dark Archive 3/5

Ninjaiguana wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Stephen White wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Having just completed running this myself I had the same idea about the BBEG's movement issues, and this is how I ran it...

** spoiler omitted **

Hi Mathwei,

My concern with this encounter was:** spoiler omitted **Cheers,
Stephen (DarkWhite)

Understood but there's a bit of confusion that may help

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Very fuzzy wording leaving it open to lots of interpretations. However I must say 2 things about your points,
First there is no Maintain action. There are only Grapple checks and as a result of a successful grapple check made after establishing a grapple you maintain that grapple, big difference.

Second I agree nothing says maintain for free or give the +5 that round but I addressed both of those. You don't get the +5 till the 2nd round and we didn't maintain the grapple we released it and applied a new one.

The twisted thing is with 2 tentacles and Grab we can have 2 different grapples going on at once, I just applied them to the same target. As long as one of the tentacles is still grabbing the target then we have a grapple on him and and all this rules apply. It's the extra tentacle attack we get to make each round that confuses the issue.

The Exchange 1/5

Stephen White wrote:

one of the encounters provides higher statblock damage in Tier 3-4 than it does for Tier 6-7:** spoiler omitted **i'm assuming one or both of these are incorrect - maybe they were supposed to be reversed?

Edit: sorry, on further reading, this may be correct:

** spoiler omitted **

Cheers,
Stephen (DarkWhite)

the key point to notice, is that the lower tier is a flat 1 rounds worth of dmg.

the higher tier dmg lasts 3 rounds:
Trigger location; Duration 3 rounds; Reset none
Effect jets of freezing water (3d6 cold damage, DC 20 Reflex
save for half damage); multiple targets (all targets in the
antechamber)

The Exchange 1/5

couple other things to note about grab/grapple.

A grappled creature takes a –2 penalty
on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except
those made to grapple or escape a grapple.

which means the second tentacle attack suffers -2, even if it is to attack the same PC that he has grappled.

also, while the cecaelia is grappled, he suffers -4 to his dex for having the grappled condition - not very appeasing for a monster surrounded by foes

however, the deadly part of this encounter comes after the second tentacle. which, if both the hit and the grapple check are successful, he can establish a pin in the first round. and now that PC is helpless:

Helpless: A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound,
sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely
at an opponent’s mercy.

which means next round, as a GM, i wouldnt try having this guy make a worthless attempt to get to the water, i would have him slay the PC.

As a full-round action, an enemy can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe.

-end of line-

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

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I've ran Song of the Sea Witch a handful of times, so here are my thoughts.

Spoiler:
Act 1 can be quite a challenge to the PCs, except for the fact that it cannot teleport, summon other devils, or leave the room that it starts in.

Smart or cautious PCs might figure this out during the fight, and bottleneck their quarry by the door. When this happens, I play up the fiend's inability to escape as them pounding against an invisible wall of force, cursing in Abyssal and miming terrible acts of torture or pain to the PCs.

In Act 3 I've played around with the how I order the PCs finding Ollysta and when the hell hounds or bearded devils attack. In a home game running of it, I had their conversation with her be cut short as the minions of Hell started ripping through portals into the market. In addition to whatever was appropriate for the tier, I had a larger devil smash through the back stalls, heading straight for Ollysta.

So the fight ended up being the PCs against what they would normally be fighting, in addition to Ollysta squaring off against a bone devil cinematically in the background. She dropped her foe just as the PCs dropped theirs, and then congratulated them on their courage. I actually had one PC swap factions mid game (paying the appropriate costs) because they found Ollysta so awe-inspiring.

While you wouldn't want to do this at a game day, it might be something to consider doing when you're playing with familiar faces, as it makes things way more exciting without actually changing anything mechanically (the illusion of danger is all that's required here).

Act 5 has never resulted in any of my groups talking their way through the fight. I have had a few people become blind mid fight (trying to get that faction mission), or grab the tome and flee. The latter almost always results in squid-man taking them on a brief underwater jaunt for their blatant thievery.

Overall, Song of the Sea Witch is a definite blast that is sure to make your players feel special by the end of it. "I stopped the armies of the Abyss from pouring into Absalom and taking the city."

Paizo Employee 5/5 Associate Publisher

Walter Sheppard wrote:

I've ran Song of the Sea Witch a handful of times, so here are my thoughts.

** spoiler omitted **...

Bless you for that :)

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

I try sometimes ;)

The Exchange 1/5

ok. so, i just ran this adventure yesterday, and i have to ask:

what is the point on some of these encounters?

take the thugs in the alley as an example - tier 6-7.

4 4th level rogues
AC 17, and 37hps, +7 to hit.

the average 6th lvl pc will have have an ac of roughly 22 by this time of their carrier. not counting after the first round of any defensive spell casting such as shield.

that means these guys will hit roughly 25% of the time. with one attack per round, averaging 7pts of dmg with potential sneak attack, that is a really, really long fight for them.

i get they are rogues, and they rely on sneak attack, but look at the layout? there really is no room for flanking, and if they try to feint, they get an attack every other round??

the fact that these guys are equip'd with standard slings for ranged is a joke. why wouldnt these guys be standing on the rough tops raining down attacks with masterwork bows or slings at the party? set up a block on the alley way to contain the pc's?

and toughness. as a feat? for a marginal combat orientated rogue? really?

a better encounter would be to have the rogues with improved steal - snatch the bag that had the book, or have them set up to parry/disarm/sunder weapons.

now look at the party structure:
you take one level 6 melee guy that charges up, roughly base +10 to hit, 75% of the time, he will hit, and does an average of 10pts of dmg.

or one ranged fighter, of course they will have rapid shot, so 3 arrows later, and you have one less rogue.

this fight isn't a resource drain, its just a waste of time. the party looks at you, like why are we doing this, you as the dm, look at the fight like why am i wasting this time?

its encounters like this that make people say they arent challenged with society modules.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

Dysfunction wrote:

ok. so, i just ran this adventure yesterday, and i have to ask:

what is the point on some of these encounters?

<snip>

its encounters like this that make people say they arent challenged with society modules.

Fair - that part is not terribly challenging. It is, however, a crucial plot point.

It gives out a faction mission (or two), clues the PCs into the whole "aquatic" element that's coming up (coral weapons), and gives them an interrogation puppet (if they want to). It also lets them know that other parties are very interested in what they're holding, and puts them on guard for the next fight.

Think of that fight like the scene in any action movie where the hero fights some goon that's no match for him - when Porter beats the crap out of the drug dealer at the start of Payback, when Castle grabs Mr. Saint's valet in The Punisher -- it's the underwhelming info guy(s)!

The Exchange 1/5

oh! i like the thought of that!

Paizo Employee 5/5 Associate Publisher

The middle fight was a bit of a 'push over' because the fight before can be BRUTAL (especially if it's the higher tier).

I'll also say that this was a learning experience for me as a writer, and I was not as involved in the PFS scene as I am now. I've grown a lot as a writer since this module, and I agree that there are a lot of things I would go back to if I could.

Spoiler:
One of the big reasons that the final fight is not as challenging as some people would expect, is because I thought the Cecaelia's ability gave it the option of taking an action while grabbing.

A bad mistake that made the finale encounter a relative pushover, and something I wish I could change.

All that being said, thanks for the nice comments. It's cool to see this old scenario get some further feedback! :)

Sovereign Court 4/5 *

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber

I ran this several times at Gencon and ALL the groups had a blast. Some came close to death, some had an easy time of it (one group even successfully diplomacy checked their way out of the final fight), but all had a great time with this adventure. It tends to run short which makes it a great choice for a convention scenario.

My groups really enjoyed even the cakewalk encounter with the thugs: a chance to feel like powerful characters against some lesser opponents, especially after the kicking they received from the bearded devils!

Grand Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I love that scenario. I've never had an adventuring party trigger the trap. They all seem to figure it out right away.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5

Hiya Guys. May I check a stat for this one? In my PDF I have 44 hit points for the King Crab Familiar on page 16. I can't square that with the Bestiary Stats on Page 50 which gives it only one HD. Is this in fact a Giant Crab or a Huge Crab or an Enlarged Crab or a typo?

I played this one a couple of months ago and really enjoyed it though we were well challenged by a long Bearded Devil fight. I'm running it on Friday for my home group and I hope to bring out more of the excellent back story somehow or other.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 *

Core Rulebook wrote:

Familiar Basics: Use the basic statistics for a creature of the familiar's kind, but with the following changes.

Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher.

Hit Points: The familiar has half the master's total hit points (not including temporary hit points), rounded down, regardless of its actual Hit Dice.

A witch's familiar functions as a wizard's, so Masaru counts as 5 hit dice with 44 hit points.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Really excellent scenario, despite the minor problems with tactics. Ran this today at 3-4 sub-tier, and had a blast.

The clerics Magic Circle Against Evil helped immensely against the devils from the book. It wasn't clearly spelled out if they were summoned or not, but I treated it as if they were.

The party missed the ambush in the alley and ended up deafened for the next two encounters as all but the sorcerer failed their Fort saves with bad rolls. They then proceeded to tear the rogues apart in one round and intimidate the lone survivor with a 27 on the check.

The only character to fail his faction mission was the Sczarni ninja, as the party didn't figure out the water puzzle without going over. The final battle started with a tense standoff as neither side could really hear each other and the tactics section did not state combat was immediate. An unseen servant to close the book helped kick things off however, and focused fire brought him down hard.

All in all, really good roleplay, nice set piece fights, lots of fun all around.

Silver Crusade 4/5

I like it a lot. I was a little disappointed in the my player was excluded from both my faction mission and RPing with my faction leader directly for the first time due to the deafness, but overall I still liked the premise and play of the scenario.

I found it interesting how Yargos was represented in this one, especially as when I played

Spoiler:
Silent Tide
with the same character, but was Andoran then rather than Silver Crusade, I was very tempted to actively try to recruite him away from the same faction I tried so hard to get him into the first time around, (but then realized it was another player's faction mission, :( ), and how much history repeated itself.

The Exchange 3/5

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Not to bring up old posts, but I had a question for you guys that have run it.

Did you do swim checks for the party to not be swept or crushed under the water during the puzzle before the final boss. Lookin' at the room we have about 80 to 100 feet area for the room with door 2 filling that room to 20 feet in 18 seconds. Its gonna be a blast of water that throws whatever character that opens it on his back and potentially drowns them. The more heavily armored party members can't even get on the stairs for safety unless with rope, but what is up there for them to even tie a rope too.

I am just wondering how the characters with 100+ pounds of equipment and a negative to swim are going to get up the 30 feet, especially in uneven water that is churning as the gates flood the room with water.

I am wondering if I am over thinking or not reading it correctly and how you guys can this part. To me it seems this part is the deadliest encounter and runs the highest risk of having 6 drowned adventurers.

5/5

I've run this a half dozen times (4 last GenCon), and the trap was never really an issue. If you describe the room accurately, in general, the players are going to knock themselves out getting up on the stairs before anything happens.

If not, yeah, I'd make them do swim checks to stay afloat. I don't think it'd be that bad for any of the characters treading water, once it made it that high, and only make them tread in slightly disturbed waters (whatever is above calm) and they could take 10. The one opening the door however, should be your best swimmer, and he'd need to make it in choppy water I'd think.

I've had fliers, grappling hooks, insane climbers, and some other methods of getting to the top before they even opened the first gate every time I ran it.

Good luck!

Grand Lodge 4/5

I too had a group that focused on getting up on the ledge before they thought to mess with the puzzle. Mostly because they thought they could pick the lock. They were rather nonplussed when there was no lock to pick. :)

4/5 *

Huh, interesting. When I played and ran it, both times the group decided to try out the puzzle beforehand. Once more, it was hilarious because when I played it we had no means of reading the numbers, so we just did random stuff until it worked...took some damage, but eh.

The Exchange 3/5

Yiroep wrote:
Huh, interesting. When I played and ran it, both times the group decided to try out the puzzle beforehand. Once more, it was hilarious because when I played it we had no means of reading the numbers, so we just did random stuff until it worked...took some damage, but eh.

It really doesn't give much description or the option of infering that what is behind those doors is potentially thousands of pounds of water wating to churn out.

My concern is with Door 2, the group I'm running it for tonight probably won't be able to anticipate there being water, so one of the fighters or barbarians are just gonna stand in front of the wall and pull the chain. I did the math to figure the rate of flow for the water coming from door 2 and my math puts it at a flow rate of 122 Cubic feet per second. That sounds like it could sweep someone off their feet, especially if the group is unable to anticipate that water will be bursting through those doors.

I am thinkin then an appropriate Reflex save to not get knocked down, then Con or swim checks to surface or swim against the flow of this water in those first rounds its pouring in.

Also, I am wondering if this is changing the Scenario too much for PFS. None of this is even in the scenario or says anything about any of these checks or the adventurers somehow being able to walk underwater or swim and pull chains and what not.

4/5 *

I wouldn't worry about the force of the entering water ... if it were meant to be a hazard it would be called out. At worst, tell them it knocks them down, but let them stand up before the water rises too high.

Unless they pull multiple chains at once, it is unlikely the first one will put anyone in drowning danger, and when I've run this the group has figured things out (or at least come up with a reasonable theory) after the first one, so they are ready for the water when it happens again.

Once the water is above their heads, swim checks are in order, though I always play that it settles pretty quickly, and take 10 is sufficient for anyone who doesn't have a negative swim check. Plate armor folks will need some help, for sure.

The Exchange 3/5

Tony Lindman wrote:

I wouldn't worry about the force of the entering water ... if it were meant to be a hazard it would be called out. At worst, tell them it knocks them down, but let them stand up before the water rises too high.

Unless they pull multiple chains at once, it is unlikely the first one will put anyone in drowning danger, and when I've run this the group has figured things out (or at least come up with a reasonable theory) after the first one, so they are ready for the water when it happens again.

Once the water is above their heads, swim checks are in order, though I always play that it settles pretty quickly, and take 10 is sufficient for anyone who doesn't have a negative swim check. Plate armor folks will need some help, for sure.

I was under the impression that you couldn't take 10 with swimming because their is a consequence for failure, ie: drowning. Maybe I should check up on the rules about swim checks though. I am pretty sure the rules said that only characters with a swim speed can take 10.

You are right, I am probably trying to be too realistic here with the force of the water. I'll probably do something but nothing dramatic.

The Exchange 5/5

From the skill Swim. from the table listing swim DCs, the one for stormy water (DC20)

* You can't take 10 on a Swim check in stormy water, even if you aren't otherwise being threatened or distracted.

so, unless there was some other problem (threatened or distracted), or the swim DC was 20 (or higher?), the PCs can take 10 on this skill check.

The Exchange 3/5

nosig wrote:

From the skill Swim. from the table listing swim DCs, the one for stormy water (DC20)

* You can't take 10 on a Swim check in stormy water, even if you aren't otherwise being threatened or distracted.

so, unless there was some other problem (threatened or distracted), or the swim DC was 20 (or higher?), the PCs can take 10 on this skill check.

I ended up finding it later that night in prep for the scenario. It ended up being a non issue because my party opened the first passage way and then realized water was behind and tied ropes to the rest of the chains and retreated to the stair-ledge.

Sczarni 1/5

Dysfunction wrote:
As a full-round action, an enemy can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe.

Sea Witch:
Except that Na-Kraka gets the Grappled condition and cannot use his spear because it is a two handed weapon.

Also, the upper tier Sea Witch did not have either Improved Grapple or Grab. Was that intentional?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

@Dorian:
I think so. His tentacles have a 10ft natural reach, so many opponents would not get the AoO for Grappling they normally do unless they are close. I think it was designed that way so that he would kill people so easily.

4/5

Codanous wrote:

Not to bring up old posts, but I had a question for you guys that have run it.

Did you do swim checks for the party to not be swept or crushed under the water during the puzzle before the final boss. Lookin' at the room we have about 80 to 100 feet area for the room with door 2 filling that room to 20 feet in 18 seconds. Its gonna be a blast of water that throws whatever character that opens it on his back and potentially drowns them. The more heavily armored party members can't even get on the stairs for safety unless with rope, but what is up there for them to even tie a rope too.

I am just wondering how the characters with 100+ pounds of equipment and a negative to swim are going to get up the 30 feet, especially in uneven water that is churning as the gates flood the room with water.

I am wondering if I am over thinking or not reading it correctly and how you guys can this part. To me it seems this part is the deadliest encounter and runs the highest risk of having 6 drowned adventurers.

My party actually climbed up to the stairs when the water was around 5 feet, then had the mage with Fly go around and pull the other chains. Granted, he had to try several times to make that DC7 strength check, but it was a nice tactic.

5/5 **** Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht

I've GMed this once before, and I'm thinking of running it again, but I have some issues:
The final encounter says that the boss is too busy reading to notice the PCs, and he'll try to drown anyone who disturbs him. Problem is, combat will probably trigger when a PC closes the book, and the exit is 5 squares away. In my first run, someone closed the book, combat triggered, boss grappled it, then realised the exit was blocked off by four more people, and getting to it is impossible in one round. If I run this RAW (which is encouraged), this'll be a let-down: one enemy with crappy tactics (and maybe his familiar) versus four or five optimised players. This combat will last one round. I'm supposed to run this RAW, but the Society guide says I'm allowed to make changes if it results in a better experience.
I was thinking of switching class levels from Witch to Druid for some better spells, some change in tactics (just actively engaging the players, rather than trying to drown them when there are three players in the way), and a more combat-oriented animal companion. Crab animal companion is still somewhat meh, but at least better than the familiar version. Maybe a crocodile or a walrus. I've run the numbers, and I'm sure my players can take it, and it'll lead to a much more interesting encounter.

Silver Crusade 2/5

Quentin Coldwater wrote:

I've GMed this once before, and I'm thinking of running it again, but I have some issues:

The final encounter says that the boss is too busy reading to notice the PCs, and he'll try to drown anyone who disturbs him. Problem is, combat will probably trigger when a PC closes the book, and the exit is 5 squares away. In my first run, someone closed the book, combat triggered, boss grappled it, then realised the exit was blocked off by four more people, and getting to it is impossible in one round. If I run this RAW (which is encouraged), this'll be a let-down: one enemy with crappy tactics (and maybe his familiar) versus four or five optimised players. This combat will last one round. I'm supposed to run this RAW, but the Society guide says I'm allowed to make changes if it results in a better experience.
I was thinking of switching class levels from Witch to Druid for some better spells, some change in tactics (just actively engaging the players, rather than trying to drown them when there are three players in the way), and a more combat-oriented animal companion. Crab animal companion is still somewhat meh, but at least better than the familiar version. Maybe a crocodile or a walrus. I've run the numbers, and I'm sure my players can take it, and it'll lead to a much more interesting encounter.

FAQ entry on running scenarios as written.

FAQ wrote:

Can I make modifications to a scenario I am GMing for Pathfinder Society Organized Play?

The scenarios are to be GMed as written.

Guide to Organized Play, v6, p. 33:

As a Pathfinder Society GM, you have the right and
responsibility to make whatever judgements, within the
rules, that you feel are necessary at your table to ensure
everyone has a fair and fun experience. This does not
mean you can contradict rules or restrictions outlined in
this document, a published Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
source, errata document, or official FAQ on paizo.com.
What it does mean is that only you can judge what is right
for your table during cases not covered in these sources.
Scenarios are meant to be run as written, with no addition
or subtraction to number of monsters (unless indicated
in the scenario), or changes to armor, feats, items, skills,
spells, stats, traits, or weapons
. However, if the actions
of the PCs before or during an encounter invalidate the
provided tactics or starting locations, the GM should
consider whether changing these would provide a more
enjoyable play experience.

Changing the class of a creature in an encounter is right out. PFS experienced a lot of this kind of modification years ago, and it has been -repeatedly- emphasized that the GM is to 'run as written'.

Silver Crusade 4/5

I found the later encounters in this scenario very disappointing, especially the final one. You're right, the final encounter is not well written and by the time the baddie can act, it's really too late for him to do much of anything. Plus, he's easily overwhelmed, especially if you have a table of 6 players.

Sovereign Court 4/5

What DesolateHarmony said. A thousand times that.

5/5 **** Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht

Okay, fair enough. I'll run it as-is. Thanks for the ruling!

2/5

Running this right now over PbP, so sorry for the necro, but since the adventure lives on I don't see any reason why these threads need be retired...

Mostly, regarding Na-Kraka's stats in subtier 6-7, his CMB is +12 (+18 grapple). The grab special ability (which is missing from his melee attacks and special abilities portion of the stat block) gives a +4 when grappling, which would mean his CMB should be +12 (+16 grapple). Is he missing the improved grapple feat?

I haven't seen any errata on this or an offical answer to Dorian5523 (I'm not convinced that Beckett has the right of it, especially when one considers the +18 grapple).

Also, the tactics state he "attempts to grapple" the first opponent he sees, but he would be far better served (in most situations) doing this by attempting a full-attack with his tentacles and using his grab ability (especially if he doesn't have improved grapple). You could interpret the tactics as "attempts to grapple (by hitting with a tentacle and using grab)" without breaking the PFS universe or the rules of the english language, but it is a bit of a stretch. Is this what was intended rather than Na-Kraka flat out using a grapple maneuver?

All in all, a reasonably fun scenario but with encounters (especially in the higher tier) that run at a CR 1-2 below what is stated due to tactics or situational modifiers.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Minneapolis

I've read through the scenario a few times and looked through the various comments here.

I think this is the very first time where I have seen an optional encounter that added to the story of the scenario. It was one of the more memorable battles when I played through it. Given all the comments, I'm going to try and make sure there is room for the optional encounter.

A few things I'm wondering:

1. Other than questioning the thugs, any one have good ideas of how the PCs might get some of the background about Na Kraka? I played through this at high tier and didn't get nearly enough of the background information.

2. Has anyone found a good way to utilize the crab familiar Masaru? Seems such a waste to have a familiar and only use it for the +2 bonus to grapple. When I played through it, I don't even remember there being a crab.

Suggestions welcome!

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

ok one funny moment from running this as reported game 150...

I tried the suggestion on the party fighter, but she failed the perception check *sigh*

The suggestion was "Go stand in a corner."

If it had worked... it would have been hilarious (check

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