Salutations, one and all! Brand new to Pathfinder here, never played 3.5, and itching to unleash a new character unto the world...
Question in short form:
Is there any way a Wizard can achieve an extra 1 or 2 BAB, to fulfill the minimal requirements of becoming an Arcane Archer? A trait? Any particular magic item that can grant such a bonus?
Question in full:
...For hours, then days, then Weeks of hours and days, I've been planning in my spare time which sort of character I'd like to birth into the realm. The Answer is an Arcane Archer. With some levels in Wizard, and Loremaster, to be specific.
I had it all planned out; Beginning as a Half-elf, I could take five levels in Wizard, immediately fulfilling the requirements to become a Loremaster at levels 6 through 10. Thanks to a secret, and a few More feats, I could then take Arcane Archer, all the way to 20.
Doing so, according to others, would be Challenging. It'd allow me to be the Knowledge and Utility guru I've always dreamed of, and eventually grant that insanely awesome ability to cast spells from nearly a half mile away (or outright land an arrow right between the eyes of any foe from so far, regardless of a Relatively low BAB by that level)...
Save for one problem:
At no point, would taking classes with only Slow BAB progression do I achieve +6 BAB by level 10.
So, before I Reach that point, I'd love to know if there are any suggestion out there as to how to make it all possible.
I'm Not against sitting down with the GM, and finding a compromise... But it'd be Ever-so-appreciated if something could be done within the boundaries of Pathfinder's mundane rules and variants.
Any advice or criticism appreciated!
The only loophole I see is the GM allowing the untyped "+1 bonus to attack rolls" secret to be considered part of your BAB.
The type of bonus isn't specified, so it could be argued that it's an inherent bonus. You might say the loremaster discovered some ancient tome that acted like a wish spell, but instead of raising a stat, it added 1 to his base attack, giving him a +6 at 10th.
Other than that, I got nothin'.
Quickest/easiest way is going to be to just bite the bullet and grab a level of Fighter, Ranger, or even Paladin or Barbarian. This plays well into your choice of half-elf for race anyway (you can't pick PRCs as favored classes, only Core/Base/Alternate classes.)
Bah! Bullets taste awful!
...But, aye. That seems to be the single most popular suggestion, that I Bitterly oppose. I would take two levels in Student of War, but that too has a BAB requirement I would never meet until 10!
I was honestly hoping for a Trait. Something similar to Magical Knack-- Only, for BAB instead of Caster Level... But I'm not even sure if it's Possible to have such a Bonus to BAB.
Right now, my Plan A is as follows:
- Suggest that, since Loremaster and Wizard follow the same Slow rate in BAB progression, that my character's BAB would Actually be 5, by level 10 ( Same as the Wizard ). This leaves me only 1 BAB in deficit...
- Suggest that the Loremaster's secret "Weapon trick" is about equivalent to an additional 1 in BAB, for the purpose of fulfilling the requirements of becoming an Arcane Archer.
Neither of the above statements are technically correct. However, I'm hoping they're enough to convince a GM to allow some rule stretching.
Edit: Apologies, "Benicio Del Espada", posted at the same time as you. ^_^ Thank you for your input
Poor BAB is the weakness of the full caster. If you want to stay a full caster, you don't get +6 BAB (which gives iterative attacks) until level 12...that's life.
If you want BAB faster, you pay for it with reduced casting ability by taking a class that has full BAB instead of full casting.
RAW(Rules As Written), none of this works. BAB is a function of levels in a class and nothing else, and the penalty by multiclassing (even into two classes on the same track) is at least partially by design.The Arcane Archer is a martial/caster hybrid class anyway, so it makes sense it requires you to get your nose out of a book and take some time to practice archery. If you don't want to do that, then it makes sense that your entry is delayed and you can't get as much out of it as those who follow the right training regimen.
Hehe... Yep yep. ^_^
I'm well aware the suggestions Do not work. Ergo the question for an alternate method.
...So, what if it was a really good book? Or rather, What if it were a magic item? Can any particular item in the game grant an increase to Base Attack Bonus?
If so, and if there were a way to make it a Continuous effect, that could be another suggestion: So long as I hold this item, I'm considered an Arcane Archer. Maybe I could convince a GM to Accept this for the next two levels, at which point the BAB granted from the Arcane Archer prestige class Actually helps me fill out its own requirements... ( And losing the item would result in permanent negative levels, or something, as compensation... )
... Again, just an idea. ^_^
But aye, the search continues; Is there a way to increase one's BAB by 2 , while still abiding the Rules As Written.
Play a Magus? 3/4 bab & most of the good Sorc/Wiz spells...
The Magus class Does not appeal to me. Perhaps a future character of mine will be Magus-based, once I have enough experience to effectively wield Words of Power. For now, however, the question concerns my original desired path, of Wizard-5 + Loremaster-5.
No. There is also no spell, no feat, and no skill check that can do this. It's solely a function of class levels.The best I can tell you is to go Wiz6/LrM2/Rgr2. That gets you a total of +6 BAB and four skill points over your "Optimum" build, along with a bonus archery feat. Yes, you lose two caster levels, but it's the most "pure" caster I can come up with that still lets you take 10 levels of Arcane Archer while still having lots of skill points.
Well, that's the direct answer I was looking for, I guess.
If none exist, then it would probably be left to nothing less than Divine intervention, Outside of the rules as written. I doubt even a Wish would suffice.
Anyhoot... I thank you for the advice. I think, if forced to change around my classes, I'd prefer a Wiz5/LrM10, and then only 5 levels in Arcane Archer to finish. It's less climactic, but it'll follow the rules, it'll grant me features that I cherish from the Loremaster class, and it'll still allow me to make 2000 foot ranged spells (AC 5 to target a particular section on the ground? )
Again, thanks for the advice, All that contributed.
EDIT: Also, I could take the aforementioned Magical Knack trait, allowing me to effectively become a CL-20 spellcaster by 20, even though my BAB would only be +12/+7/+2
I would also point out that its not possible to cast a spell beyond what you can perceive (or perhaps its aim a spell, either way its functionally the same) and that without a custom magic item you won't ever be perceiving 1,000 feet, much less 2,000.
...Aww! I don't suppose a little Scrying would help?
That was half the concept that inspired me to attempt an Arcane Archer: Friends telling stories of Phase Arrow use, and casting spells on fortifications further away than any Siege weapon could reach...
I never actually looked into the specifics on perception, or the rolls needed to actually See such things. Care to share?
Bane,
Good luck on your build. I'm also looking to qualify for arcane archer and it looks like I'll qualify after 6 wizard / 3 fighter. I took the fighter for the extra feats it provided, and bab. I'm 6 wizard and 2 fighter now. It's fun and I chose transmutation as a favored school (haste, gravety bow, magic weapon, flame arrow,fly, etc.). I'm also bummed about the bab requirement, but I'm already an "arcane archer" as I use transmutation buffs and combat feats to dish out pointy death. I'm looking into the magical knack for the caster level bonus next level.
-KZ
How are you getting 7 ranks in knowledge skills without first being level 7 anything?
RequirementsTo qualify to become a loremaster, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Knowledge (any two) 7 ranks in each.
Feats: Any three metamagic or item creation feats, plus Skill Focus (Knowledge [any individual Knowledge skill]).
Spells: Able to cast seven different divination spells, one of which must be 3rd level or higher.
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Salutations, one and all! Brand new to Pathfinder here, never played 3.5, and itching to unleash a new character unto the world...
Question in short form:
Is there any way a Wizard can achieve an extra 1 or 2 BAB, to fulfill the minimal requirements of becoming an Arcane Archer? A trait? Any particular magic item that can grant such a bonus?
Question in full:
...For hours, then days, then Weeks of hours and days, I've been planning in my spare time which sort of character I'd like to birth into the realm. The Answer is an Arcane Archer. With some levels in Wizard, and Loremaster, to be specific.
I had it all planned out; Beginning as a Half-elf, I could take five levels in Wizard, immediately fulfilling the requirements to become a Loremaster at levels 6 through 10. Thanks to a secret, and a few More feats, I could then take Arcane Archer, all the way to 20.
Doing so, according to others, would be Challenging. It'd allow me to be the Knowledge and Utility guru I've always dreamed of, and eventually grant that insanely awesome ability to cast spells from nearly a half mile away (or outright land an arrow right between the eyes of any foe from so far, regardless of a Relatively low BAB by that level)...
Save for one problem:
At no point, would taking classes with only Slow BAB progression do I achieve +6 BAB by level 10.
So, before I Reach that point, I'd love to know if there are any suggestion out there as to how to make it all possible.
I'm Not against sitting down with the GM, and finding a compromise... But it'd be Ever-so-appreciated if something could be done within the boundaries of Pathfinder's mundane rules and variants.
Any advice or criticism appreciated!
fighter 1/wizard 5( or which ever arcane you choose)/eldrich knight 3/loremaster 4/ arcane archer 4/ back to eldrich knight until 20
basically the same thing you are doing but a little better over all. that would be my suggestion
It's not possible to be a Wizard / Loremaster at 10 such that you can be an arcane archer.
Plus, you need to be level 8 to get into Loremaster.
And it requires 4 feats.
Check out the Bard archetypes. They don't need to be musically inclined at all. And they are really, really good at knowledge thanks to Bardic Knowledge and Lore Master (the ability). The Archivist archetype will do the knowledge monkey build that you so desire.
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I wouldn't go ranger. Fighter 2 will get you twice as many bonus feats and as many skill points as wizard.
Ranger can net you trapfinding though. And since you are a skill monkey build it seems complimentary.
Ranger(trapper) 2, Wizard 6, Loremaster 2, Arcane Archer 10.
OR
Fighter 2, Wizard 6, Loremaster 2, Arcane Archer 10.
Seem to be the closest to what the OP wants out his build.
My suggestion would be instead of dipping 2 levels in classes that aren't keeping up your spellcasting, stay in the ones that are. Let me explain:
Your plan was to go 1-5 as a Wizard, which nets you a +2 BAB. If you took one more level of wizard prior to going into Loremaster (or even came back to wizard), you would get to +3 BAB. So taking one more level of Wizard is the same BAB as taking a level of fighter.
It is exactly the same thing for Loremaster, you are stopping just before getting another BAB. If you go through to level 6 then you get your BAB needs met.
So... you could do Wizard 5/Loremaster 6/Wizard 6/Arcane Archer 8
It doesn't get you Arcane Archer at level 10, but it does keep your spell casting intact.
Sean Mahoney
Doing so, according to others, would be Challenging. It'd allow me to be the Knowledge and Utility guru I've always dreamed of, and eventually grant that insanely awesome ability to cast spells from nearly a half mile away (or outright land an arrow right between the eyes of any foe from so far, regardless of a Relatively low BAB by that level)...
Any advice or criticism appreciated!
So in the end you only want to be a level 6 Archer, thats when you get
Imbue Arrow (Sp)
At 2nd level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell's area is centered where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow's range rather than the spell's range. A spell cast in this way uses its standard casting time and the arcane archer can fire the arrow as part of the casting. The arrow must be fired during the round that the casting is completed or the spell is wasted. If the arrow misses, the spell is wasted.
If you don´t want to give up any more spellcasting than you have too a true strike follwed by the imbued spell should allow you to hit a square on the ground a mile away (AC 5 IIRC).
So why don´t you enjoy loremaster a little bit longer?
And it has been pointed out already but you need 7 ranks to get into the class, and 4 feats, unless you want to stay a little longer, you gain little. Level 10 Wizard gives you another bonus feat, the bonus in knowledge skills from loremaster would be nice, but you are already pretty damn clever.
Some wizard schools give some nice powers at level 8.
Oh an btw you can only shoot area spells, you cant add something like magic missile, disintegrate or flesh to stone.
Typo i meant level 2 arcane archer, that what I get for posting so late.
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Any advice or criticism appreciated!
Seriously, I'd avoid any of the 3.5 holdover prestige classes. All of them.
If you want a skilled caster-bowman, consider a WIS-advancing monk3[zen-archer]/clericX. GMW your arrows (which are d10 when flurry-fired while wearing Monk's Robes) and mow stuff down.
20pt half-elf or human
STR:12
DEX:12
CON:12
INT:14
WIS+17 (all bumps)
CHA:12
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<shrug>
If you want to be a "Knowledge and Utility guru", play a high-INT bard. ...not that straight wizard is worse than awesome in role role either.
By the time Arcane Archer is any good, a full wizard would rather DimDoor (while Invisible) and plant a Delayed Blast Fireball.
What's more fun: shooting an arrow, or making mushroom-clouds?
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<shrug>
If you want to be a "Knowledge and Utility guru", play a high-INT bard. ...not that straight wizard is worse than awesome in role role either.
By the time Arcane Archer is any good, a full wizard would rather DimDoor (while Invisible) and plant a Delayed Blast Fireball.
What's more fun: shooting an arrow, or making mushroom-clouds?
shooting the arrow, archers are the most popular role in the fantasy genre.
So the goal is a knowledge guy who can cast spells and use a bow effectively.
wizard/loremaster into arcane archer is a long road. And when you get into AA finally, your BAB will be so low that you can forget about hitting anything with a bow in the first place. At 13th lvl, your BAB will be a good 6 behind a full BAB guy, and 3 behind a medium BAB guy. By that point you have 7th lvl spells, so why even pick up a bow? And unless you use certain races or take certain traits, you need to pick up weapon proficiency with the bow anyways.
Note also that you will be feat starved. You will need 3 additional feats to get into loremaster plus 3 more feats to get into AA. (plus weapon proficiency if you don't get that some other way). Thats before you can even think about things like arcane strike or deadly aim, without which you will be a pitiful archer, as a low str archer needs both to do any significant damage.
Easiest fix is to take a level or two of fighter or ranger. Fighter for feats or ranger for skill points, although the feats will be more precious than the sps. Or one level of fighter then jump into EK to get the BAB up.
Bard would probably be the easiest way to accomplish what you want. No need to go into loremaster, as you already get the class level bonus to knowledge skills, as well as having other knowledge boosting abilities. Plus you can save those feats. No need for fighter levels as you can have the BAB be lvl 8. Theres several bard archetypes that will work well with the knowledge/spellcaster/archer concept...arcane duelist, archivist, archeologist, magician all bring something to the table. Or even just the straight up bard.
Magus works too, but you've already ruled that out.
Personally, I'd forego trying to squeeze AA and loremaster into the same build. Both have hefty feat requirements and go off into different directions. I think Bard would accomplish what you want the best. But if you want the higher level wizard spells then fighter 1/wizard 6/EK 1/AA x; this build also lets you take additional EK levels which will maintain spellcasting and BAB. However none of those classes offer additional sps or boosts to knowledge skills. If you want those boosts then its back to bard, which lets you excel at knowledge skills without even trying.