I’m curious how other DMs go about designing monsters, particularly in regards to CR.
So which comes first for you, the concept or the CR? Do you start with “I want a giant of this size, with this many hit dice...” and then tack a CR onto it after everything else is written? Or do you start with “I want a giant of this CR...” and then work out the other stats from there?
Do you follow all the rules for monster types; all undead have d12 hit dice, poor BAB, etc? How do you decide on the number of hit dice? How do you decide values for stats that aren’t tied to hit dice, such as natural AC?
I’m curious how other DMs go about designing monsters, particularly in regards to CR.
So which comes first for you, the concept or the CR? Do you start with “I want a giant of this size, with this many hit dice...” and then tack a CR onto it after everything else is written? Or do you start with “I want a giant of this CR...” and then work out the other stats from there?
Do you follow all the rules for monster types; all undead have d12 hit dice, poor BAB, etc? How do you decide on the number of hit dice? How do you decide values for stats that aren’t tied to hit dice, such as natural AC?
Sometimes I do CR first, other times not. For the most part I rebuild 3.5 monsters, and I do follow the "creature type" rules. It makes things easier to track. I also look at other monsters with the same CR to make sure I dont get carried away.
Hm, to what end do you rebuild monsters?
Hm, to what end do you rebuild monsters?
Sometimes the monster is not in Pathfinder, such as the mindflayer. Other times the CR may be off such as the arrow demon or Astral Stalker from MM 3.
I’m curious how other DMs go about designing monsters, particularly in regards to CR.
So which comes first for you, the concept or the CR? Do you start with “I want a giant of this size, with this many hit dice...” and then tack a CR onto it after everything else is written? Or do you start with “I want a giant of this CR...” and then work out the other stats from there?
Do you follow all the rules for monster types; all undead have d12 hit dice, poor BAB, etc? How do you decide on the number of hit dice? How do you decide values for stats that aren’t tied to hit dice, such as natural AC?
Generally, I start with a concept and the very last thing I do is figure out the CR. Once I have a concept, I have a fair idea of the power level although this can be adjusted through special abilities and hit dice.
I generally follow all the rules exactly. It get much harder to judge CR if the creature doesn't follow standard rules.
Number of HD depends on the power level of the creature. Big creatures deserve more HD than puny ones.
Natural AC depends on what it compares with. Constructs made of metal may have +10 Natural AC or more where a furry mammal may only have +1 Natural AC.
I am far more likely to under power my creature than overpower it. I figure a reasonable number of special abilities is 1 per HD (not including those that come from Type or Subtype).
In good monster design if the CR exceeds the HD, you probably are doing it wrong. If your creature has 3 or more bonus feats, it needs more HD.
If you are making a monster for a specific CR, then you should look at similar creatures to get a feel of what is appropriate.
Here is the CR estimator that I use:
Vorpal Tribble’s CR estimator
#1. Divide creature's average HP by 4.5 to 6.5.
4.5 for 5 HD or lower, 5 for 6-10 HD, 5.5 for 11-15 HD, 6 for 16-20 HD., 6.5 for 20-25 HD.
#2. Add 1 for each five points above 10 its AC is, subtracting 1 for every 5 below.
#3. Add 1 for each special attack (+2 to +5 or more if it has a decent number of spells in its spell-like abilities).
#4. Add 1 for each quality unless you deem it worthy of more. Add 1 for each resistance and 10 points of DR it has, and 2 for each immunity. Subtract 1 for each vulnerability.
#5. Add 1 for every two bonus feats it has.
#6. Divide total by 3. This should be its rough CR.