So my group is playing this AP and we're closing up The City of Seven Spears. We've got a ranger, sorcerer, life oracle, alchemist, cleric and a rogue/barbarian. We've had plenty of easier encounters.
Then we have the big boss battles. Nintendo hard stuff. Times when at least one or more of our melee fighters go into the negatives. After the encounter is done, we dig at the encounter with the GM and really believe that it's way off.
We're sitting right about where we should be based on what the AP says, most of the way through the city and midway to 10th level. Yet we come against something like the biggest bad in the Residential district and 2 outright deaths. 1 gone in a round and a second hit, the other completely one-shotted with around 20 points of damage to spare.
Having seen this pattern through out the whole module, we can't help but thinking that something went off the rails when it was being written. Does anyone else feel or think like this or are we just that far gone?
My group has not had the same experience AT ALL. Granted, the boss at the end of adventure 1 has some ridiculous save DCs, but else they had no problem with the fights. Granted, they have a really cheesy grapple-barbarian and the AP relies on a lot of "single boss" fights, so our experience might be outside the ordinary.
When you say the residential district that make me wonder, since there are no monsters there which I would consider hard. Could you give some details (with a spoiler tag, if necessary)?
When you say the residential district that make me wonder, since there are no monsters there which I would consider hard. Could you give some details (with a spoiler tag, if necessary)?
I maybe be remember the wrong district name. But that was the biggest encounter we thought was off.
There was also the
When you say the residential district that make me wonder, since there are no monsters there which I would consider hard. Could you give some details (with a spoiler tag, if necessary)?** spoiler omitted **
I maybe be remember the wrong district name. But that was the biggest encounter we thought was off.
There was also the ** spoiler omitted ** in the military district that we ran into almost immediately. Part of that may have been the wrong place to start exploring the city, but it was right there when we came down into the area.
I did run one thing wrong on the aforementioned monster, however it would have meant the entire party would have been grappled instead. (pretty sure I would have TPK'd if I ran it right).
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I have yet to run this module so I can only comment on what I have read. But it occured to me that it is not supposed to be "move into district, clear everything, move to next district, repeat". There are definitely creatures that are most to overly challenging but I think they are in there to force the PCs to retreat and come back later better prepared. This way the districts remain dangerous in some way even after the group has run through it. Maybe you just went with a too straight-forward "kick in the door" approach?
Edit: Just realized that you are a group of 6. Did your GM change anything about the encounters to accomodate that?
Looking at those monsters it's important to note that they are the biggest badasses in the book, so if you were still around 7-8 I get how that would be an issue. It's also important to note that you can retreat and rest a lot in this adventure, so each individual encounter should be easier than in a dungeon. Also, one spell takes care of the grab-aspect first monster:
My take is that you should be aware of both monsters before your meet them, since it's pretty easy to do recon in this adventure. And knowing what they are, it should be easy to make a plan which lets your group take the suckers down. Or wait until you have some more levels under your belt.
Looking at those monsters it's important to note that they are the biggest badasses in the book, so if you were still around 7-8 I get how that would be an issue. It's also important to note that you can retreat and rest a lot in this adventure, so each individual encounter should be easier than in a dungeon. Also, one spell takes care of the grab-aspect first monster:
** spoiler omitted **
My take is that you should be aware of both monsters before your meet them, since it's pretty easy to do recon in this adventure. And knowing what they are, it should be easy to make a plan which lets your group take the suckers down. Or wait until you have some more levels under your belt.
Unless of course you destroy the thing keeping the one at bay. Also the party is very melee focused, or used to be, so the party was all pretty close to the big one. I did notice that this is the only time that they have put this high of a CR in the the 3rd book of the AP.
I did notice that this is the only time that they have put this high of a CR in the the 3rd book of the AP.
I totally agree that it's a difficult fight, and I think they should have put in more foreshadowing for such a difficult monster. But it's doable, and remember that it is unable to attack a party with fly and ranged attacks. But with a melee only party with low CMDs... Good luck.
My take is that you should be aware of both monsters before your meet them, since it's pretty easy to do recon in this adventure. And knowing what they are, it should be easy to make a plan which lets your group take the suckers down. Or wait until you have some more levels under your belt.
At the point and way we encountered this creature, we had no way to do any recon on it. None of us had every encountered it before. In or Out of character.
The baddie here had most of us in mortal danger by the end of the first round, 2 dead by the second round. Our cleric did Blessing of Fervor in the first round and started to move in the second, which my then had 2 dead. So by 3rd round, the cleric spell mentioned, wouldn't have helped us. At that point, it became triage.
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I did notice that this is the only time that they have put this high of a CR in the the 3rd book of the AP.I totally agree that it's a difficult fight, and I think they should have put in more foreshadowing for such a difficult monster. But it's doable, and remember that it is unable to attack a party with fly and ranged attacks. But with a melee only party with low CMDs... Good luck.
A big part of the reason we did that was because stumbling into the lair of a monster that's too powerful for you is part of the sandbox tradition. "City of Seven Spears" IS a sandbox adventure. And parts of it, like the aforementioned monster, can be "put off" to be tackled later in the adventure.
That said... I think that two sandboxy Adventure Paths back to back (Kingmaker and Serpent's Skull) might have been an error in judgement. Which is why Carrion Crown is so much NOT a sandbox.
A big part of the reason we did that was because stumbling into the lair of a monster that's too powerful for you is part of the sandbox tradition. "City of Seven Spears" IS a sandbox adventure. And parts of it, like the aforementioned monster, can be "put off" to be tackled later in the adventure.
I don't think it was the sandbox part that's getting us, I think that some of the monsters that are too powerful to stumble into, then run/save for later, are powerful for later.
That's what we seem to be experiencing more often than not with these baddies. The AP module ends with the party at about 10th level. We were at 9th when we stumbled across this one. We even found out our GM ran it softer than it could be run (he wasn't trying to run it soft either).
If it had been run as hard as it could, we aren't sure that the one level we were off by would've been enough to help stave off the killings.
If that's the case then maybe there were some bad rolls involved? I am still confused that a party of 6 that has divine, arcane, ranged and melee covered has so much trouble getting out of an encounter.
But your point about being one level short of the module's cap is probably lessened by the fact that the next module also takes place in the same place. I don't want to spoil anything for you but there will be plenty of opportunities to come back to anything in CoSS all the way through Vaults of Madness.
If that's the case then maybe there were some bad rolls involved? I am still confused that a party of 6 that has divine, arcane, ranged and melee covered has so much trouble getting out of an encounter.
Most everyone hit (average to above average damage too), including the big bad here. So it did everything possible each time, which was just crushing us.