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In PFS, if I had a 7th level wizard, and I wanted to cast Stone Skin, would I need Granite and Diamond dust worth 250 GP for each casting of the spell? Would I need to not on character sheet: 1,250 gp in diamond dust and granite dust, to cast Stone Sking 5 times?
If I had a 9th level cleric, would I need a 5,000 gp diamond to cast raise dead? Would I need to have noted on my character sheet 5 x 5,000 gp dimonds (25,000gp) for raise dead spells?
Thanks
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In PFS, if I had a 7th level wizard, and I wanted to cast Stone Skin, would I need Granite and Diamond dust worth 250 GP for each casting of the spell? Would I need to not on character sheet: 1,250 gp in diamond dust and granite dust, to cast Stone Sking 5 times?
If I had a 9th level cleric, would I need a 5,000 gp diamond to cast raise dead? Would I need to have noted on my character sheet 5 x 5,000 gp dimonds (25,000gp) for raise dead spells?
Thanks
Personally I would accept a post facto 'Cast Raise Dead - 5000 gp' per instance on the Chronicle under Items Bought.
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In the case of Stone Skin, you absolutely would need diamond dust noted on your character sheet along with the quantity carried. When the spell is cast, those materials are used, if you are not carrying the materials, casting the spell is impossible.
In regards to raise dead though it's a little different. If you want to be able to raise-dead on the fly, then yes, just like Stone Skin you would need to have the material component listed on your sheet ahead of time. Raise Dead has a little longer shelf-life though and if you find yourself in the field without the diamond dust needed, if in a major metro area, you could return to the "magic shop" to get some, and then go back to adventuring.
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I actually happen to like materiel components for spells...diamond dust.....powdered silver....what ever.
I remember back in high school, our history teacher, ran the D&D club. This was back in 89, 90 around that time. We were playing 1st edition.
He did a brilliant job running adventures. Mr. Army ( the history teacher) would even take my silly questions about the Hieroglyphics- wether they looked Mayan or Egyptian and answer them. There came a moment where we had to cross a chasm. After some debate, i was playing the mage in that game, i decided to cast spider climb so i my character could climb up one wall, over the ceiling and down the wall on the other side while carrying a rope. Mr Army asked us what we were going to do. I informed him of our plan, and i told him that i cast spider climb on myself. Mr Army asked me if i had a small spider. I replied "yes i think its in my had...that's the materiel component for the spell right?" Mr Army said " yes but nothing happens" I replied " what? ok i try to cast the spell again"Mr Army commented " you have to eat the spider to make the spell work"
The look on all of our faces must have been priceless.....Ewww......" All right my character eats the spider, but he is holding his nose" .
We did get across the cavern, But i'll never forget that moment where my mage was looking at the spider in his hand.....and he realized he had to eat it.
I guess i like materiel components (and the somantic and verbal) because to me they make the spells feel more like spells then "super powers"
Thanks for your answers they were very helpufl
I actually happen to like materiel components for spells...diamond dust.....powdered silver....what ever.
I remember back in high school, our history teacher, ran the D&D club. This was back in 89, 90 around that time. We were playing 1st edition.
He did a brilliant job running adventures. Mr. Army ( the history teacher) would even take my silly questions about the Hieroglyphics- wether they looked Mayan or Egyptian and answer them. There came a moment where we had to cross a chasm. After some debate, i was playing the mage in that game, i decided to cast spider climb so i my character could climb up one wall, over the ceiling and down the wall on the other side while carrying a rope. Mr Army asked us what we were going to do. I informed him of our plan, and i told him that i cast spider climb on myself. Mr Army asked me if i had a small spider. I replied "yes i think its in my had...that's the materiel component for the spell right?" Mr Army said " yes but nothing happens" I replied " what? ok i try to cast the spell again"Mr Army commented " you have to eat the spider to make the spell work"
The look on all of our faces must have been priceless.....Ewww......" All right my character eats the spider, but he is holding his nose" .
We did get across the cavern, But i'll never forget that moment where my mage was looking at the spider in his hand.....and he realized he had to eat it.
I guess i like materiel components (and the somantic and verbal) because to me they make the spells feel more like spells then "super powers"Thanks for your answers they were very helpufl
I always wonder about that 25gp/HD of onyx that's required for Animate Dead. Given that Onyx runs about $5-$10 per pound, and a gp is worth somewhere around $500, a 10HD zombie would seem to require a couple of tons of onyx.
Unless.
"Yeah, I need to buy an onyx gemstone worth about 250gp"
"Why yes, fine sir. For that amount, I can provide you with this 5000 pound solid block. We would be happy to polish it up for you in a few weeks time."
"Hmm. I really need something more portable... Can you just sell me that pea sized piece of onyx for 250gp?"
"Sir? That little pebble is only worth about a silver piece."
"Not if you sell it to me for 250gp!"
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I would rather not relive that moment...
You didn't live the first time. You can't relive it when you die and leave your dwarven fighter buddy by himself, under the Eye of Aroden, with greater shadows everywhere because you forgot a stupid 25 gp spell component. Great job Joe. Hopefully you won't forget the look on my face when you said in a wee little voice, "no."
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I always wonder about that 25gp/HD of onyx that's required for Animate Dead. Given that Onyx runs about $5-$10 per pound, and a gp is worth somewhere around $500, a 10HD zombie would seem to require a couple of tons of onyx.
An average onyx stone is worth 50gp. Larger more expensive stones will of course exist, but will likely just be a bit harder to find. So you shouldn't need a literal ton to fuel the spell.
So an average onyx stone will easily raise up to 2HD of undead. For an average undead it should work fine. Higher level undead raised as skeletons and zombies will require more expensive stones.
But regardless it is certainly doable without carrying huge amounts of weight.
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"Yeah, I need to buy an onyx gemstone worth about 250gp"
"Why yes, fine sir. For that amount, I can provide you with this 5000 pound solid block. We would be happy to polish it up for you in a few weeks time."
"Hmm. I really need something more portable... Can you just sell me that pea sized piece of onyx for 250gp?"
"Sir? That little pebble is only worth about a silver piece."
"Not if you sell it to me for 250gp!"
Ingenious.
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Ingenious."Yeah, I need to buy an onyx gemstone worth about 250gp"
"Why yes, fine sir. For that amount, I can provide you with this 5000 pound solid block. We would be happy to polish it up for you in a few weeks time."
"Hmm. I really need something more portable... Can you just sell me that pea sized piece of onyx for 250gp?"
"Sir? That little pebble is only worth about a silver piece."
"Not if you sell it to me for 250gp!"
Which is why I wished they would place a fixed weight for a 1 GP of the popular pricy spell components (Pathfinder 2.0 suggestion)
a gp is worth somewhere around $500Wow... I'll sell you my hiking backpack for $1000. ;)
Back in 3.x WotC posted/published something that mentioned 1 gp =~ $20. Which I've always thought fit quite well when suggesting prices.
(sorry for the minor threadjack)
Threadjack away...
The standard coin weighs about a third of an ounce (50 to the pound).
Today's closing gold price is approx $61/gram
1 pound = 453.6 grams
1 coin (per above) = 453.6/50 = 9.1 grams
9.1 grams per gp x $61/gram = $555 dollars per gp.
Adventuring gear is expensive.
Late in 3.5, Wotc did an online analysis that came up fairly close to this.
Stuff.All that only because the default currency in D&D/PF is the gold coin. If the default coin was silver, or more reasonably, copper, then there wouldn't be the huge discrepancy between real-world and game-world costs.
It really doesn't work for any of the metals, if you are trying to get internally consistent.
Gold Silver Copper
453.6 453.66 453.6 grams/lb
50 50 50 pieces/lb
9.072 9.0732 9.072 grams/piece
61 1.4 0.00886 dollars/gram
553.392 12.70248 0.08037792 dollars/piece
553.44 55.34 5.53 Gold based economy, dollars per piece
127.02 12.70 1.27 Silver based economy, dollars per piece
8.04 0.80 0.08 Copper based economy, dollars per piece
So, using these numbers, I ran the trade goods to see what things actually cost.
Cost Item Gold Std Sil Std Cop Std 2011 Source
1 cp One pound of wheat $5.53 $1.27 $0.08 $0.12 $7.42/bushel, 60 lbs/bushel
2 cp One pound of flour $11.07 $2.54 $0.16 $2.00 Online Seller
2 cp or one chicken $11.07 $2.54 $0.16 $7.00 Local grocery. Bought today
1 sp One pound of iron $55.34 $12.70 $0.80 $2.00 Online reports
5 sp One pound of tobacco $276.70 $63.51 $4.02 $25.00 Online seller
1 gp One pound of cinnamon $553.39 $127.02 $8.04 $7.00 Bulk food supplier
1 gp or one goat $553.39 $127.02 $8.04 $200.00 Varies depending on quality
2 gp One pound of ginger $1,106.78 $254.05 $16.08 $3.50 Bulk food supplier
2 gp or pepper $1,106.78 $254.05 $16.08 $18.00 Amazon
2 gp or one sheep $1,106.78 $254.05 $16.08 $170.00 USDA report
3 gp One pig $1,660.18 $381.07 $24.11 $100.00 USDA report
4 gp One square yard of linen $2,213.57 $508.10 $32.15 $20.00 Fabric store online
5 gp One pound of salt $2,766.96 $635.12 $40.19 $1.50 Local grocery. Bought today
10 gp One square yard of silk $5,533.92 $1,270.25 $80.38 $10.00 Fabric store online
10 gp or one cow $5,533.92 $1,270.25 $80.38 $1,200.00 USDA report
15 gp One pound of saffron $8,300.88 $1,905.37 $120.57 $4,800.00 Bulk food supplier
15 gp or cloves $8,300.88 $1,905.37 $120.57 $9.50 Bulk food supplier
15 gp or one ox $8,300.88 $1,905.37 $120.57 $2,500.00 Online seller
Anyone know how to format this better?
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Well one thing to take into consideration is how pure are the coins? While a single gold piece is a third of an ounce and 50 to a pound, How much of that 1/3 ounce gold coin is well.... gold?
I think that currency is probably locally controlled by local governments…. and you would probably have to change your coins into local currency as you travel from nation to city-state etc.
If you were a Chelaxian Merchant changing your gold into local Korvosan coins, you would probably get a 1 to 1 exchange minus a commission.
If that same Chelaxian Merchant were to take his Korvosan coins back to Cheliax, I doubt he would be able to get a 1 to 1 exchange rate for his Korvosan gold coins to the Chelaxian gold coins.
Perhaps merchants use scales to determine how valuable a coin is…..Maybe there is a standard coin other gold coins are weighted against. If cheliax has the largest and most powerful economy in the inner sea area, Perhaps coins are weighted against “chelaxian” weight.
Just some thoughts.
With the fluxuating price of gold, I would hazard a guess that, equating a gold piece to US dollars now, wont be the same value as it was 10 years ago, and it wont be the same value in a couple of years.
Now Horses are something that adventurers have had regardless of edition they are in.
How has the GP value of a horse changed from edition to edition?
How much does a horse cost in US dollars today? How much did a horse cost 150 years ago?
since the price of gold fluxuates, perhaps a horse might be a good benchmark between "real world" and "imagined world" prices.
Just some thoughts.
Well one thing to take into consideration is how pure are the coins? While a single gold piece is a third of an ounce and 50 to a pound, How much of that 1/3 ounce gold coin is well.... gold?
I think that currency is probably locally controlled by local governments…. and you would probably have to change your coins into local currency as you travel from nation to city-state etc.
If you were a Chelaxian Merchant changing your gold into local Korvosan coins, you would probably get a 1 to 1 exchange minus a commission.
If that same Chelaxian Merchant were to take his Korvosan coins back to Cheliax, I doubt he would be able to get a 1 to 1 exchange rate for his Korvosan gold coins to the Chelaxian gold coins.
Perhaps merchants use scales to determine how valuable a coin is…..Maybe there is a standard coin other gold coins are weighted against. If cheliax has the largest and most powerful economy in the inner sea area, Perhaps coins are weighted against “chelaxian” weight.
Just some thoughts.
With the fluxuating price of gold, I would hazard a guess that, equating a gold piece to US dollars now, wont be the same value as it was 10 years ago, and it wont be the same value in a couple of years.
Now Horses are something that adventurers have had regardless of edition they are in.
How has the GP value of a horse changed from edition to edition?How much does a horse cost in US dollars today? How much did a horse cost 150 years ago?
since the price of gold fluxuates, perhaps a horse might be a good benchmark between "real world" and "imagined world" prices.
Just some thoughts.
Okay, so I actually thought about this, and built this whole spreadsheet thinking about it.
But I run across two issues.
1) Guess what gold alloyed with silver and copper is called in the real world. Really. Guess. Electrum. I was somewhat in awe for a moment. But anyway. PFS doesn't deal in Electrum, so it kind of defenestrated that idea for me.
2) I'm thinking the Church of Abadar would have words with anyone passing off less than .99 gold as gold coins. People would enter into issues of how to trust the coin they were handed and how to assay it to determine if it was .55 (Phonecian electrum) or .46 (Phokian). And whether the cut was standardized across the different nations.
I really can't see trading merchants going to conversion stations to trade in one nations coins for another. Likely, if they were traveling from nation to nation, they would arrange to be paid in currency of a set nation, or likely trade amongst themselves, cutting any government out of the picture. Again, the church of Abadar might have words for any government promoting such inequity.
But yeah. In reality, it's entirely possible. But the rules don't even mention gold pieces being anything less than real gold.
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People would enter into issues of how to trust the coin they were handed and how to assay it to determine if it was .55 (Phonecian electrum) or .46 (Phokian). And whether the cut was standardized across the different nations.
This happened in the real world, when all currency was specie (before paper money). Governments would mix greater or lesser amounts of copper, silver, or lead into their "gold" coins depending the state of the treasury and how much demand there was on said treasury. Mostly it didn't matter, as most people didn't travel that much, but for merchants the provenance of a coin would make a difference in the price they charged for their goods.
But yeah. In reality, it's entirely possible. But the rules don't even mention gold pieces being anything less than real gold.
All coins being the same value makes it easier to play the game. We're not playing a medieval economy simulation, we're playing a heroic fantasy game.
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Remember, a lot of things affect the price of gold, not the least of which is the supply (not to mention markets, the Absalom stock exchange, Taldor's rising debt crisis, upcoming elections in Andoran, rogue pit fiends in Cheliax). A lot of the assumptions about the value of gold are based off the real world. Maybe in Golarion a 1/3 ounce of gold is so common that it isn't worth much more than 3.3 ounces of silver.
Applying real world value to a gold piece by using OUR price of gold isn't applicable. It's much more logical to look at cost of living, etc. Which I have seen quoted as roughly $20=1gp.
A lot of the assumptions about the value of gold are based off the real world. Maybe in Golarion a 1/3 ounce of gold is so common that it isn't worth much more than 3.3 ounces of silver.
This is actually a very good point.
A very large part of the value of gold is the fact that it's damn useful for a lot of things. And in the 21st century, one of the big things that gold is used for is electronics.
Back in the 19th century, there was a good long time when gold was worth approximately 15 times the value of silver. Which would bring Golarion a lot more in line with the 10:1 ratio for currencies.
So, really, given the fantasy setting, and the fact that we're talking about an entirely different world where gold might not have intrinsic value, or may be much more common or more easily mined than in our world, assumptions about the comparative value of gold there and here are somewhat fraught with assumptions.