So we're playing a one-off while waiting for our DM to get his new campaign up, and in the course of gameplay my Magus (lvl10) attacks and also channels shocking grasp through his sword. Unfortunately, he fumbles. Please note: we're using the crit and fumble decks as well. Question we had is thus:
**The attack fumbles. Going by the card, I hit and crit an adjacent ally. Roll to confirm (of course I confirmed...why wouldn't I? lol) So, does the spell crit as well? Or do we use the Spell Fumble result as well? (In which case the spell would hit the caster, per the card)
On the flip side, I'm a sucker for stacking criticals effects.
I would do a double up on effects, so the attack would be considered both a Melee weapon fumble, and a spell fumble.
Since it seems both effect resulted in the spell strike hitting multiple things, I would just result in you taking damage from the effect, and your buddy getting crit with your sword.
I wouldn't force the spell to crit cuz I feel enough sweet may hem has ensued.
With a Magus the weapon attack dictates how the spell hits. If you hit, then the spell hits. If you crit, then the spell crits. Using the crit and fumble deck you have one of two choices... and you just need to be consistent in how your group uses them.
If you crit you either use the sword crit card and apply it as best a possible to the spell as well... in cases where the damage is increased then the spell damage would be increased too. If the crit card does something like apply a slow effect then the spell still does damage but nothing extra. The same rules would apply to a fumble.
The other way to look at it is if you crit or fumble you use the effects for BOTH sword and spell from the same card when you pull it. This could have some odd combinations.
Personally I think you should use the weapon card either way and just tack the spell damage onto the card as best you can with DM judgment.
So we're playing a one-off while waiting for our DM to get his new campaign up, and in the course of gameplay my Magus (lvl10) attacks and also channels shocking grasp through his sword. Unfortunately, he fumbles. Please note: we're using the crit and fumble decks as well. Question we had is thus:**The attack fumbles. Going by the card, I hit and crit an adjacent ally. Roll to confirm (of course I confirmed...why wouldn't I? lol) So, does the spell crit as well? Or do we use the Spell Fumble result as well? (In which case the spell would hit the caster, per the card)
This would be my ruling:
Critical Hits: When using Spellstrike, since both the spell and the weapon critically hit on a successful hit, you draw separate cards for each effect and apply them.
Fumbles: Since you are making the attack roll with your weapon, you suffer the fumble with the weapon but not the spell. The spell is only cast if the weapon hits, and if the imbued attack misses, the spell is discharged harmlessly (prepared spell is lost) in addition to the effect of the critical fumble card.
So we're playing a one-off while waiting for our DM to get his new campaign up, and in the course of gameplay my Magus (lvl10) attacks and also channels shocking grasp through his sword. Unfortunately, he fumbles. Please note: we're using the crit and fumble decks as well. Question we had is thus:**The attack fumbles. Going by the card, I hit and crit an adjacent ally. Roll to confirm (of course I confirmed...why wouldn't I? lol) So, does the spell crit as well? Or do we use the Spell Fumble result as well? (In which case the spell would hit the caster, per the card)
This would be my ruling:
Critical Hits: When using Spellstrike, since both the spell and the weapon critically hit on a successful hit, you draw separate cards for each effect and apply them.
Fumbles: Since you are making the attack roll with your weapon, you suffer the fumble with the weapon but not the spell. The spell is only cast if the weapon hits, and if the imbued attack misses, the spell is discharged harmlessly (prepared spell is lost) in addition to the effect of the critical fumble card.
Thanks Golden (and thanks everyone for the replies) I should point out that the attack and spell are intrinsically linked. The hit for the spell uses the attack roll for the melee swing. The crit chance uses the weapon crit range as well. Separating them seems a little arbitrary. To wit: why should I enjoy the benefit of a phenomenally huge crit range (keen scimitar 15-20) and not suffer the fumble chance as well for both sources of damage.
I also have a vested interest in keeping the spell fumble and the melee fumble separate. Being that I was also using Intensified Spell, that was a base 10d6, plus the melee d6, plus the additional crit damage d6 and a potential 10d6 additional from a spell crit. I would've one-shot the fighter if we used only the melee fumble result. As it is, our DM ruled that the melee result stood, but the spell just fizzled. It felt a little off to me, kinda like he fudged in our favor a little (not that I'm unappreciative). I have no problem taking 10d6 from a self-inflicted spell fumble, while also swiping with a melee crit (the shock jolted me into the other guy).
Chief Technical Officer
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So we're playing a one-off while waiting for our DM to get his new campaign up, and in the course of gameplay my Magus (lvl10) attacks and also channels shocking grasp through his sword. Unfortunately, he fumbles. Please note: we're using the crit and fumble decks as well. Question we had is thus:
**The attack fumbles. Going by the card, I hit and crit an adjacent ally. Roll to confirm (of course I confirmed...why wouldn't I? lol) So, does the spell crit as well? Or do we use the Spell Fumble result as well? (In which case the spell would hit the caster, per the card)
The Magus's Spellstrike ability says:
This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
So the spell effect is intended to crit whenever the weapon crits, with its own distinct effect. So I'd say your failure-provoked crit would have a weapon crit effect and a spell crit effect.
So we're playing a one-off while waiting for our DM to get his new campaign up, and in the course of gameplay my Magus (lvl10) attacks and also channels shocking grasp through his sword. Unfortunately, he fumbles. Please note: we're using the crit and fumble decks as well. Question we had is thus:
**The attack fumbles. Going by the card, I hit and crit an adjacent ally. Roll to confirm (of course I confirmed...why wouldn't I? lol) So, does the spell crit as well? Or do we use the Spell Fumble result as well? (In which case the spell would hit the caster, per the card)
The Magus's Spellstrike ability says:
This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.So the spell effect is intended to crit whenever the weapon crits, with its own distinct effect. So I'd say your failure-provoked crit would have a weapon crit effect and a spell crit effect.
All well and good. Do I use the melee fumble from the card (hit adjacent ally) for the melee AND spell? Or do I use the melee fumble for the weapon and the spell fumble for the spell (melee: hit adjacent ally/ spell: hit self with spell)
All well and good. Do I use the melee fumble from the card (hit adjacent ally) for the melee AND spell? Or do I use the melee fumble for the weapon and the spell fumble for the spell (melee: hit adjacent ally/ spell: hit self with spell)
If it were up to me (& soon enough it will be, mwah-ha-haa), I would rule it that when you crit or fumble, you draw a single card, & both results (weapon & spell) are then applied; in this particular instance, the weapon fumble was that you hit & crit an ally, so a separate crit card would be drawn for the weapon crit, while the spell fumble was that the spell discharged into you (with no crit), so the spell effect would end at that point. This is kind of an unusual occurrence IMO, as usually a fumble won't trigger a crit, so in this case the weapon & spell effects diverged momentarily; normally if you crit or fumble with the weapon you do likewise with the spell, so both effects would apply from a given card. Granted, this can potentially result in some unusual combinations, but no more so inherently than drawing a separate card for each half of the attack; I'm still not sure how this will all tie together with the introduction of the called shot rules in Ultimate Combat, however.
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Chief Technical Officer
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All well and good. Do I use the melee fumble from the card (hit adjacent ally) for the melee AND spell? Or do I use the melee fumble for the weapon and the spell fumble for the spell (melee: hit adjacent ally/ spell: hit self with spell)So we're playing a one-off while waiting for our DM to get his new campaign up, and in the course of gameplay my Magus (lvl10) attacks and also channels shocking grasp through his sword. Unfortunately, he fumbles. Please note: we're using the crit and fumble decks as well. Question we had is thus:
**The attack fumbles. Going by the card, I hit and crit an adjacent ally. Roll to confirm (of course I confirmed...why wouldn't I? lol) So, does the spell crit as well? Or do we use the Spell Fumble result as well? (In which case the spell would hit the caster, per the card)
The Magus's Spellstrike ability says:
This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.So the spell effect is intended to crit whenever the weapon crits, with its own distinct effect. So I'd say your failure-provoked crit would have a weapon crit effect and a spell crit effect.
I'd do the latter, myself.