Alright so we are starting a Rise of the Run Lords campaign. I've created a Monk who has the following (and since we've done but half a session I can probably move stats around a bit if I like for the game)
(20pt buy)
STR - 12
DEX - 16
CON - 14
INT - 9
WIS - 17
CHA - 7
Race - Teifling
Class - Monk (Flowing Monk)
Alignment - LN
Current Feats:
- Nightmare Fist
- Shadow Stalker (Trait)
- Weapon Finesse
Now the concept. Nassir is a monk based on Greed. He will take advantage of anything in order to get what he wants, and more of it. His overall plan is to own the world, and perhaps even become a god of Galorion while doing so (Thus why he respects Aroden).
In terms of combat I want him to basically use Redirection from Flowing Monk to trip foes, and SA immediately after on his turn. His weapon of choice is unarmed attacks and Sai, but he also employs a Kusarigama for more utility.
So thinking of how that flavor works (move in, SA, trip as Immediate upon getting attacked, flurry + sneak attack) what do you think is a good way to go from here (or even better starting options)?
I wanted sneak attack specifically and as much as i look the inquisitor i don't want to go that route.
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monk ki pool stacks with ninjaki pool.
Even if it is a must, then Vivisectionist Alchemist will net you more, and give you the Sneak Attack you want.
One is wisdom based, and the other is charisma based.
Monk is already MAD as heck, and that would make it more MAD.
Sneak Attack is really more of a "wheeee dice!" mechanic, that is hard to pull of, doesn't add as much as many think, and is unreliable.
He already has Nightmare Fist, and adding a reliable way of demoralizing enemies will up his damage.
Inquisitor with the Conversion Inquisition will do this. Throw in the Enforcer feat for a quick, reliable demoralize attempts.
Also, opens up Nightmare Weaver, and more Darkness spells to get his Nightmare Fist Damage.
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For those who really like Rogue/Ninja, the numbers are just irrelevant.
No matter how much evidence is provided, the ears will be closed with hands, and want someone to come in and tell them how awesome their class is.
They will fight tooth and nail too.
So, I only have one question:
Is Ninja/Rogue such a must, that it must be chosen, no matter what?
Blackbloodtroll. The Nightmare Fist was merely flavor and is easily thrown out if need be. I haven't taken advantage of the feat yet but it just ads a little bit to the character.
If numbers was what I was worried about then sure I'd probably go your way. Honestly, though I've played enough of the inquisitor and want to try something different. I know there will be enemies that are immune to trip and I'm prepared to deal with that. Which is why I'm in here asking whether or not I should dip Ninja with most my class levels in monk or the other way around, thus I can use Sneak Attack as a benefit against those I can trip and use other tools agains those I can't. In the end of the day what matters is the concept but I didn't want to entirely base my character off Nightmare Fist (although I wouldn't mind doing that).
In regards to you mention of inquistor from a constructive standpoint would you go for enough levels to get a few uses of Bane or dip Monk?
I'm fine with exploring the option, what would your recommendations be?
What I want is a stealthy character who likes to operate in the shadows, rid himself of enemies as quickly and cleanly as possible and eventually gain enough power and strength to dominate the world (since his vice is greed and control is what satiates that greed). How would you go about building a character (with levels in monk) that fulfills that? Actually, even without levels in monk I'd be curious.
The main reason I chose Monk and Rogue/Ninja is because outside of Barbarian they are the only two truly martial classes I have not played. I want to do something new to me.
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Well, Martial Artist has no alignment restriction, and can use his Monk level to qualify for feats with a Fighter level prerequisite when those feats are applied to unarmed strikes or weapons with the monk special quality.
Then there is the Heretic Inquisitor, who adds her Wisdom modifier on Bluff and Stealth checks. Combine with the Wisdom of the Flesh(Stealth) trait, and have x2 Wisdom to Stealth.
I like the idea of having a Heretical view of Irori, and seeing the mortal who achieved absolute physical and mental perfection and thus attained divinity of his own volition, as the path that must be followed, no matter the cost.
Not bad actually, perhaps I'll discuss this change with the GM but it works well.
Now in regards to the original. If I dropped Flowing Monk and stuck with standard Monk, I could use Stunning Fist to open up free Sneak Attacks. As you said, its an inconsistent method for dealing damage, but with Stunning Fist I can up that consistency (at least for a few more levels). Would that be a more viable option?
You make it sound as if tripping and stunning fist are pointless mechanics...
Any other opinions?
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Well, from Curse of the Crimson Throne, there is the Guided enchantment.
Slap that on an Amulet of Mighty Fists, and be one SAD PC.
ok Emn1ty, i am building an almost identical character right now and saw your thread and thought i'd pop in to steal some ideas but i can see that its more likely i'll be giving ideas instead. so heres what i am doing, although it might not fit your flavor exactly it is still something to think about.
instead of flowing monk, use master of many styles. you lose the use of flurry of blows, but gain the ability to use multiple style stances at once. my intention was to use 3 specific styles (panther, snake, and tiger since my flavor involved being a catfolk) so only 8 levels of monk are needed, although more can be used if you want. i was then using the rest of my levels for ninja to gain as much SA as possible. by NOT taking improved trip, i planned on tripping on the first attack made (which would be a retaliatory/pre-emptive attack given via AoO with panther style) followed by a couple extra attacks given from styles that now get SA to them.
if you arn't too worried about having alot of SA's then take monk to 15 for a 4th style stance and get lightning stance and just never use your full attack and instead move 2x your movement speed each round tripping and pummeling your enemies for a total number of attacks a round limited only by the number of baddies you have and AoO you can do (which pretty much becomes infinite by that time....
now that i've said my piece...if you steal my idea i will steal your soul!!!
ok Emn1ty, i am building an almost identical character right now and saw your thread and thought i'd pop in to steal some ideas but i can see that its more likely i'll be giving ideas instead. so heres what i am doing, although it might not fit your flavor exactly it is still something to think about.
instead of flowing monk, use master of many styles. you lose the use of flurry of blows, but gain the ability to use multiple style stances at once. my intention was to use 3 specific styles (panther, snake, and tiger since my flavor involved being a catfolk) so only 8 levels of monk are needed, although more can be used if you want. i was then using the rest of my levels for ninja to gain as much SA as possible. by NOT taking improved trip, i planned on tripping on the first attack made (which would be a retaliatory/pre-emptive attack given via AoO with panther style) followed by a couple extra attacks given from styles that now get SA to them.
if you arn't too worried about having alot of SA's then take monk to 15 for a 4th style stance and get lightning stance and just never use your full attack and instead move 2x your movement speed each round tripping and pummeling your enemies for a total number of attacks a round limited only by the number of baddies you have and AoO you can do (which pretty much becomes infinite by that time....
now that i've said my piece...if you steal my idea i will steal your soul!!!
STOP HANDING PEOPLE MY IDEAS AND CLAIMING THEM AS YOURS!!!!!
By the way for onlookers, Shimesen, The Bumbling Barbarian, and myself are in the same campaign group.
ok Emn1ty, i am building an almost identical character right now and saw your thread and thought i'd pop in to steal some ideas but i can see that its more likely i'll be giving ideas instead. so heres what i am doing, although it might not fit your flavor exactly it is still something to think about.
instead of flowing monk, use master of many styles. you lose the use of flurry of blows, but gain the ability to use multiple style stances at once. my intention was to use 3 specific styles (panther, snake, and tiger since my flavor involved being a catfolk) so only 8 levels of monk are needed, although more can be used if you want. i was then using the rest of my levels for ninja to gain as much SA as possible. by NOT taking improved trip, i planned on tripping on the first attack made (which would be a retaliatory/pre-emptive attack given via AoO with panther style) followed by a couple extra attacks given from styles that now get SA to them.
if you arn't too worried about having alot of SA's then take monk to 15 for a 4th style stance and get lightning stance and just never use your full attack and instead move 2x your movement speed each round tripping and pummeling your enemies for a total number of attacks a round limited only by the number of baddies you have and AoO you can do (which pretty much becomes infinite by that time....
now that i've said my piece...if you steal my idea i will steal your soul!!!
STOP HANDING PEOPLE MY IDEAS AND CLAIMING THEM AS YOURS!!!!!
By the way for onlookers, Shimesen, The Bumbling Barbarian, and myself are in the same campaign group.
the only part that was your idea was using master of many styles to use more then one style. the rest was my idea anyway. well at least the parts i didnt mention, like using feral combat training and the vicious claws rogue talent and all that stuff....
In the end of the day I just went with inquisitor. I talked to my GM about it and at first he said, "If a character that wants to control the world he's in, to the point of being a control freak (greed) then Wizard fits that best".
But, I've always had a bad time casters (not a full caster I have ever made has gotten past 3 levels of play). So, in the end I went Inquisitor only because my GM hadn't seen one be played before.
Now, that being said I don't know what his opinions are on changing up my character again. My only fear is that despite being creative I'll work myself into a corner mechanically and while I can deal with that I know my GM won't make compensation to allow me to use what I've put into my character. I have always had a tendency to get too creative with my classes mostly because I like putting two things together that normally shouldn't be and making them work in some form.
The style of combat I mentioned above would have been fine probably for the first 5-10th level in the campaign, but after that if probably would have become moot when things immune to trip came into play, thus reducing me to just standard less than average flurries and semi-average rogueness stuff.
Currently my character is has taken a turn to the following:
Race: Teifling
Class: Inquisitor (Heretic)
Domain/Judgement: Either Inevitable/Travel Domain (Gives me Command 3+WIS/day) or Conversion Inquisition
Stats:
STR: 16
DEX: 15
CON: 12
INT: 9
WIS: 17
CHA: 8
Trait: Wisdom of the Flesh
Feats (can always be changed, too bad Inquisitors are only proficient with simple weapons).
1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Elven Curve Blade)
2: (CAD Fighter): Power Attack
3: Dodge
5: Mobility
7: Spring Attack
Armor: Breastplate
I'm going to be picking up battlefield control + command/enchantment spells for his theme. In terms of physical combat he'll be a 1-off hitter who moves in and out of combat with spring attack and possibly Vital Strike in the future with the help of fighter dips. Two levels of Fighter loses me a couple 6'th level spells and a final ability which I'm not too keen on so I'm fine with it. CAD also gives me Acrobatics, Escape Artist and Sleight of Hand as class skills which will be nice (at least acrobatics/escape artist).
Other options for a quick 1-3lvl dip:
- Two Handed Fighter (level 3 2x STR instead of 1.5x on two handed)
- Lore Warden (2 level dip for two extra skill points and three feats total, including free combat expertise)
- Ranger (2 level dip for Two Handed combat Style)
- Cleric Theologian gives me +2 to CL for my domain and a couple domain spells.
- Monk for MoMS
the only part that was your idea was using master of many styles to use more then one style. the rest was my idea anyway. well at least the parts i didnt mention, like using feral combat training and the vicious claws rogue talent and all that stuff....ok Emn1ty, i am building an almost identical character right now and saw your thread and thought i'd pop in to steal some ideas but i can see that its more likely i'll be giving ideas instead. so heres what i am doing, although it might not fit your flavor exactly it is still something to think about.
instead of flowing monk, use master of many styles. you lose the use of flurry of blows, but gain the ability to use multiple style stances at once. my intention was to use 3 specific styles (panther, snake, and tiger since my flavor involved being a catfolk) so only 8 levels of monk are needed, although more can be used if you want. i was then using the rest of my levels for ninja to gain as much SA as possible. by NOT taking improved trip, i planned on tripping on the first attack made (which would be a retaliatory/pre-emptive attack given via AoO with panther style) followed by a couple extra attacks given from styles that now get SA to them.
if you arn't too worried about having alot of SA's then take monk to 15 for a 4th style stance and get lightning stance and just never use your full attack and instead move 2x your movement speed each round tripping and pummeling your enemies for a total number of attacks a round limited only by the number of baddies you have and AoO you can do (which pretty much becomes infinite by that time....
now that i've said my piece...if you steal my idea i will steal your soul!!!
STOP HANDING PEOPLE MY IDEAS AND CLAIMING THEM AS YOURS!!!!!
By the way for onlookers, Shimesen, The Bumbling Barbarian, and myself are in the same campaign group.
Using lightning stance coupled with the many styles was wholly my idea.
I had actually forgotten about Lightning stance. Hm...