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I think I heard similar grumbling about the ranger version of Resist Energy, and I suspect there would be some raised eyebrows about summoner scrolls of Haste (among other spells from the summoner list).I'm trying to think if there are any other candidate spells that are particularly onerous to some players.
I'm not coming up with anything.
I bow to your superior spell list knowledge.
Hmm. Haste, Resist Energy, Lesser Restoration. Seriously I don't feel any of these three are game breaking heavy hitters requiring specific house rules, but again - if a house rule is necessary, then make it as least onerous as possible.
"The following spells may not be created as wands, scrolls or potions:
Haste
Lesser Restoration
Resist Energy"It could even be implemented as part of Additional Resources, so that new material that might be targeted for house rule could be called out.
Again. Not a fan of house rules, but that seems a whole lot less of a pain in the asterisk than the current situation.
This I can't quite understand.
Changing the pricing for a few consumable items is game breaking and onerous, but yanking the option out of even having such items is better?
There's a blanket pricing rule, so that it doesn't have to constantly change for corner cases. They keep putting out new books with spells and options (though it sounds like classes are done for a bit). Any time they add a new spell, it's possible to fall into the same category as the 3 above.
With the current rule, no adjusting of the house rule has to be done. If you want to do it narrowly, such as pulling out specific spells, then you possibly have to change the rule with each and every new book they put out with spells...and they put out new spells nearly every month in one line or the other.
I think this new proposed option would be a much bigger pain to keep up on than a simple blanket rule like there is now.
Opinions will vary, but I just don't understand the need for all the extra hassle.
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I have always been very supportive of there being standard pricing for consumables and have never supported cheaper wands of say lesser restoration from a Paladin. In my mind, a Paladin is very unlikely to take the crafting feats and spend his time making wands and such for everyone else's consumption - considering his other abilities lend themselves nicely towards other militant duties. In fact, I think the rarity of a Paladin making consumables is enough to warrant an increase in price to that of what it costs a cleric to make it, and thus have always used that as my own personal justification why you can't buy those items at the cheaper price.
In all honesty, the pricing for consumables is an issue that is inherent with the Pathfinder system and not so much with PFS. But I think further discussion on that point is better suited for a different section of these messageboards.
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But I understand that out of all the classes out there that they would be the most likely not to make items that would alleviate suffering more accessible to others. ;)
They would be the least likely to make these items. Paladins leave the making of these items to their more clerical brethren. The clerics have access to more spells and take more feats geared towards focusing on spellcasting. Paladins are more likely to go out there and lay the smack down on the evils of the world.
How many times in your experience of playing have you seen a Paladin take a crafting feat? What about the more spellcasting dedicated party members? Note, this is not asking what you would do if you had the choice, but what you've experienced so far in your games (looking at PCs and NPCs).
They would be the least likely to make these items. Paladins leave the making of these items to their more clerical brethren. The clerics have access to more spells and take more feats geared towards focusing on spellcasting. Paladins are more likely to go out there and lay the smack down on the evils of the world.How many times in your experience of playing have you seen a Paladin take a crafting feat? What about the more spellcasting dedicated party members? Note, this is not asking what you would do if you had the choice, but what you've experienced so far in your games (looking at PCs and NPCs).
This is all well and good, but note that paladin wands/potions/scrolls are perfectly accessible in PFS; it's just certain wands/potions/scrolls are unavailable for whatever reason.
But I understand that out of all the classes out there that they would be the most likely not to make items that would alleviate suffering more accessible to others. ;)They would be the least likely to make these items. Paladins leave the making of these items to their more clerical brethren. The clerics have access to more spells and take more feats geared towards focusing on spellcasting. Paladins are more likely to go out there and lay the smack down on the evils of the world.
How many times in your experience of playing have you seen a Paladin take a crafting feat? What about the more spellcasting dedicated party members? Note, this is not asking what you would do if you had the choice, but what you've experienced so far in your games (looking at PCs and NPCs).
I was thinking that as a Paladin got older, and possibly more and more road-weary, they might think that settling down as the local town hospitalier would be an honorable end of career. In fact, aren't the Hospitalier Order just that, paladins who have dedicated themselves to setting up hospitals and places to care for the sick and the travelers? For them the crafting of wands, potions and scrolls would be an honorable fulfillment of their vows when the body was no longer able to carry on adventuring.
I think what it really boils down to is that many different people have different interpretations of what a given class should represent. And this interpretation would probably be further coloured by the particular deity the paladin serves. There is no one right way to play a character. And there is no one right way to be an NPC. The presupposition that all of a given class behave in a given way seems to me to make a much more boring world than one in which all things are possible.
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This I can't quite understand.
Changing the pricing for a few consumable items is game breaking and onerous, but yanking the option out of even having such items is better?
There's a blanket pricing rule, so that it doesn't have to constantly change for corner cases. They keep putting out new books with spells and options (though it sounds like classes are done for a bit). Any time they add a new spell, it's possible to fall into the same category as the 3 above.
With the current rule, no adjusting of the house rule has to be done. If you want to do it narrowly, such as pulling out specific spells, then you possibly have to change the rule with each and every new book they put out with spells...and they put out new spells nearly every month in one line or the other.
I think this new proposed option would be a much bigger pain to keep up on than a simple blanket rule like there is now....
Lets start with: I generally dislike and distrust all house rules.
Given that, the idea of a set of convoluted rules governing all wands, potions and scrolls, put in place in order to keep what really amount to 2 or 3 spells that some people don't like from being used by people who do like them seems more onerous to me than simply disallowing those 2 or 3 spells.
There already exists a rules document that outlines what specific game elements are disallowed. It's called "Additional Resources". Adding 2-3 entries to that list does seem to me less onerous than an entire system where one must verify that they are using spell levels for classes of items that they are not members of in order to buy items which, contrary to Core Rules now work for them as if they were a member of that class.
So yes. It does seem less onerous to me. But if it were my preference, the house rule would not exist at all.