After killing a CR 5 in one round of combat last night, the question was raised about whether or not I was calculating the damage for my level 6 inquisitor right. Here's what he was dealing with:
Composite Longbow (+3 Strength modifier)
Frost Arrows (1d6 frost damage)
Flames of the Faithful (Flaming Burst)
Weapon of Awe (+2 Damage)
Divine Favor (+2 Damage)
Judgement of Destruction (+3 Damage)
Bane (Class Ability) (2d6 Damage)
Point Blank Shot (+1 damage)
With all of these combined, my calculations had me doing:
1d8+11 bow damage, 1d6 frost, 1d6 fire, 2d6 Bane
And then take all of that, with rapid shot to do 2d8+8d6+22 damage.
Is this normal, or have I calculated something wrong?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I notice a lot of minutes/ level and some rounds/ level abilities in there so you aren't doing this anywhere near all day long and you can only pull it off if you KNOW you are going to encounter something nasty soon.
You should also double check damage bonus types. I'm not sure what the bonus type is on Weapon of Awe and Divine Favor but I don't think they all stack with each other.
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You used three spells and two class abilities, usually, you won't have that much time to activate all your assets. You also have a rather high strength for an archer of your level.
Also, shouldn't the damage be higher? Bane increases the enhancement bonus of the weapon after all.
What are those frost arrows? Similar to the flame arrow spell?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Just looking at the rounds/ level stuff and things that you can't really pre-cast.
Flames of the faithful (rounds per level) so usually burns a round of combat.
Bane: Swift Action - Can be done the round you start firing arrows.
Judgment: Swift action. Con't kick this on until one round after you turn on bane.
Just checked and as I suspected Weapon of Awe does not stack with your judgment (they are both sacred bonuses). Divine Favor does though. Though as Jadeite points out Bane adds another +2 to your damage so it's a push.
What the others have said, a lot of buff most of which is round/level, and with all that at that level the damage could be more (depends on the build).
Also try (nearly) one-shooting (yes with a bow) a lesser jubberwock with only one buff with a 16th level switch hitter ranger. Oh man that created one very akward situation to our table.
I had a BA archer inquisitor once. I bragged about him getting over 50 damage with a full attack. Then, one day, the fighter archer in the party did over 50 damage with a single attack roll. He stayed silently smug. The bastard. :P
Can the fire and the frost be applied simultaneously?
Yes. There is no rule stating that fire and cold damage cancel each other out.
One thing you can expect is for archery builds to do more damage.
Paladins are the biggest standout. You can get a lot of arrows into the air with Rapid Shot and Multishot, and with smite on every arrow the damage goes insane. However, archery is very effective with Fighters, Bards, Rangers and Barbarians as well (just core). Inquisitors make great archers too - but they are anything but alone.
The trade off of course is that although archery is the damage leader for any combat build, the archer isn't aiding in melee, flanking, using combat maneuvers, or protecting the squishy members of the party.
That doesn't mean archery isn't a fantastic idea, but just be aware as an archer you only have one job, to do lots of damage. It's not unfair if you are the best at that job.
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A 6th level fighter would get 4 shots (Many shot, +1 at -5). They also have weapon specialization and +1 to hit and damage naturally, +2 for weapon spec, and hit far more often. With no buffs they would hit more often and for more damage then your inquisitor above.
+6 BAB +1 WF +1 with bow (Ftr) +1 magic weapon +5 or so Dex +1 PBS = +15 -4 Deadly Aim / Rapid.
So +11 to hit, 4 shots (-5 4th) at d8+d6+8 = 4d8 + 4d6 + 32. That outdamages your character fully buffed, and the same to hit (you don't have deadly aim and get +2 for divine favor). And as many stated you need several prep rounds and can do that 1 combat/day (maybe 2).
Inquisitors are decent, but they aren't top damage dealers by any standards.
Y'all forgot one thing, point blank shot only helps with your attack roll NOT your damage roll.
Y'all forgot one thing, point blank shot only helps with your attack roll NOT your damage roll.
You are mistaken.
Y'all forgot one thing, point blank shot only helps with your attack roll NOT your damage roll.
Point-Blank Shot (Combat)
You are especially accurate when making ranged attacks against close targets.
Benefit: You get a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at ranges of up to 30 feet.
Anyway, back to the original point. Yes, you do that much damage, but you should have required 2 or 3 rounds to get all these buffs out (considering their short duration and the fact most require a swift action to activate). So... unless you knew this fight was going to go down you shouldn't have been able to use everything in 1 round.
As was stated, weapon of awe doesn't stack with a judgement sacred bonus.
You should do a lot of damage if you have time to power up. But you can't judgment and bane in the same round. Only one swift action a round.
I do this damage routinely with my inquisitor. My lvl 12 melee inquisitor averages 60 points of damage a hit in melee and I don't have everyhing stacked.
I have plotted it out where he will average something like 90 points of damage a hit when I have him maxed out and fully buffed. Inquisitors are damage bosses. Just takes them longer to power up.
I believe you have discovered the art of novaing. If I figured this correctly, you spent 3 of your 9 non-orizon spells (assuming a wisdom between 14 and 19) for the day, one of your two daily judgements, at least one of your 5 rounds of bane, and about 330 gp in magic arrows (+1 frost arrows it looks like?).
You also have to either spend the first round of combat prepping for this using your swift on judgement in order to not waste a round of bane, or activate bane before the fight starts (and since you only get 5 rounds/30 seconds of bane per day, spending those seconds out of combat goes fast).
So you can pull this off for maybe 2 combats a day, after which your damage plummets to 1d8+4 per arrow. Depending on how much loot you get, the price of those arrows might add up pretty darn quickly too.
tl;dr: You spent all your resources to do massive damage, that's something the game copes with.
Hi Everyone, sorry to take so long to get back and reply.
First of all, the situation in question involved us having prior warning, so I had time to cast all of the minutes/level spells. I then used invisibility to get into position, cast my round/level spells, then unleash the damage.
I've done some talking with my DM, taken a look at a couple other builds, and considering the resources I expended it seems pretty reasonable. Thanks for all your input!
Also, looking at the rules now I don't know quite how we got to it, but the arrow is simply a Frost enchantment without the +1 prerequisite.
Archers got a massive bump in PF
It continually surprises me in PF just how massive damage output can be from bow, and sword, and fist
Poor baddies dont stand a chance
the archer-bard in our KM campaign dishes out obscene damage, doubley so in that you can F.R.A while mounted with a bow
Also, looking at the rules now I don't know quite how we got to it, but the arrow is simply a Frost enchantment without the +1 prerequisite.
It might have been loot from an enemy if you're running an adventure path. It seems they often have weird magic items. If you bought them from a shop or created them, then you do need a +1 first, for a total of +2 cost.
First of all, the situation in question involved us having prior warning, so I had time to cast all of the minutes/level spells. I then used invisibility to get into position, cast my round/level spells, then unleash the damage.
And for a nova build, that is the perfect setup for really going to town. Absurd damage numbers are perfectly reasonable in this situation.
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First of all, the situation in question involved us having prior warning, so I had time to cast all of the minutes/level spells. I then used invisibility to get into position, cast my round/level spells, then unleash the damage.And for a nova build, that is the perfect setup for really going to town. Absurd damage numbers are perfectly reasonable in this situation.
Nova build? Splain pleaz.
Nova build? Splain pleaz.First of all, the situation in question involved us having prior warning, so I had time to cast all of the minutes/level spells. I then used invisibility to get into position, cast my round/level spells, then unleash the damage.And for a nova build, that is the perfect setup for really going to town. Absurd damage numbers are perfectly reasonable in this situation.
Nova builds tend to explode in power in the right situations, but they can't sustain that level of damage. Clerics, Inquisitors, and similar classes are common for nova builds. These classes have a lot of short duration personal buffs that all stack. If you know a fight is coming, and you have a couple of rounds to cast all your buffs, you will easily outdamage everyone else in the group. The downside to these builds is that if you are surprised or you run out of spells, you will have subpar damage. Also, at 2-3 buff spells per fight, you tend to burn through your spells really fast.
Nova build? Splain pleaz.First of all, the situation in question involved us having prior warning, so I had time to cast all of the minutes/level spells. I then used invisibility to get into position, cast my round/level spells, then unleash the damage.And for a nova build, that is the perfect setup for really going to town. Absurd damage numbers are perfectly reasonable in this situation.
To 'nova', you expend a significant quantity of your resources in exchange for peak performance. Read 'significant' as 'enough that you can't do this again that day'. Namely, you unleash everything or nearly everything on one encounter, inflating your prowess beyond the pale, blasting through that one encounter but leaving yourself severely weakened for the remainder of the day as you've used up the majority of your spells, limited use/day abilities, expendable magic, etc.
Nova build? Splain pleaz.First of all, the situation in question involved us having prior warning, so I had time to cast all of the minutes/level spells. I then used invisibility to get into position, cast my round/level spells, then unleash the damage.And for a nova build, that is the perfect setup for really going to town. Absurd damage numbers are perfectly reasonable in this situation.
A nova build is one where you have a lot of power, but you burn through it very quickly, leaving you weaker than other builds afterwards. It's great for short encounters or short adventuring days, not so good for long ones.
For example, I have three 1/day abilities which add to my damage, and can cast a spell that lasts 3 rounds twice a day. If my base attack does an average of 10 damage, and each of those four things adds 10 more damage, I can activate all of them and say "I can do 50 damage!" But next round, when I have nothing left to activate, I only do 20 damage. And when the spell wears off, I'm back down to 10 until I cast it the second time.
Compare this to a non-nova build, where the base damage is 20. In a 3 round fight, the nova does 50+20+20 damage (90). The non-nova does 20*3 (60). In the second fight of the day, also 3 rounds, the nova now does (20+20+20) compared to (20+20+20), so they both do 60. On the third fight, the nova only does (10+10+10 = 30) compared to the 60. Over the 9 rounds of combat, they each do 180 damage, but the nova does most of it in the first combat. If the third one is the BBEG, that's not good. Also, if combat lasts 5 rounds instead of 3 (long enough for the spell to wear off), that'd make the first fight 110 vs 100, the second 80 vs 100, and the third 50 vs 100. If there's a fourth fight, the advantage swings even more towards the constant damage.
This isn't to say that nova builds are bad. They can do an amazing amount of damage, and often that's all that's needed. They can also spread out their powers to average the same as the constant guy, rather than dropping them all at once, and thus get a nice boost when needed. But to compare the damage from a round or two of a nova build to other builds which don't front-load isn't a useful comparison.
Side note, I believe the term nova came from Battletech. In that game, you had to pick which weapons you were going to use each round. Most of the time, you were trying to manage your heat levels by not using all of your weapons. You could use all your weapons in a single round to do a large amount of damage, but that would generally cause your mech to overheat, and force you into shutdown. In that game this was referred to as an "Alpha Strike" or "Going Nova". The Nova part was a reference to your heat levels, and because overheating could also cook off your ammo stores and cause your mech to literally explode.
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Side note, I believe the term nova came from Battletech. In that game, you had to pick which weapons you were going to use each round. Most of the time, you were trying to manage your heat levels by not using all of your weapons. You could use all your weapons in a single round to do a large amount of damage, but that would generally cause your mech to overheat, and force you into shutdown. In that game this was referred to as an "Alpha Strike" or "Going Nova". The Nova part was a reference to your heat levels, and because overheating could also cook off your ammo stores and cause your mech to literally explode.
That brings back memories... also in battletech, there's the clan Nova/Black Hawk mech, a medium mech that mounts 12 ER medium lasers. Sure, you can fire all at once, doing lots of damage, but you shut down because of the heat. :-)
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I had a BA archer inquisitor once. I bragged about him getting over 50 damage with a full attack. Then, one day, the fighter archer in the party did over 50 damage with a single attack roll.Never diss a guy with the Vital Strike chain. :-D
He stayed silently smug. The bastard. :P
Enjoy the extra elemental dice from your upgraded bows while you can in the mid-levels, because as soon as everything you face has DR5/(elements), those enhancements are 83.3% nerfed (eventually facing elemental DR is one reason I don't bother getting it for bows).
I had a BA archer inquisitor once. I bragged about him getting over 50 damage with a full attack. Then, one day, the fighter archer in the party did over 50 damage with a single attack roll.Never diss a guy with the Vital Strike chain. :-DHe stayed silently smug. The bastard. :PEnjoy the extra elemental dice from your upgraded bows while you can in the mid-levels, because as soon as everything you face has DR5/(elements), those enhancements are 83.3% nerfed (eventually facing elemental DR is one reason I don't bother getting it for bows).
Enter the enlarged wildshaped druid in the form of an Ankylosaurus
with improved natural attack(Tail) and the entire vital strike chain.Base damage 3d6
improved natural attack makes it 4d6
Enlarge makes it 6d6
With Vital strike and improved vital strike 18d6 + X damage with a single attack.
That brings back memories... also in battletech, there's the clan Nova/Black Hawk mech, a medium mech that mounts 12 ER medium lasers. Sure, you can fire all at once, doing lots of damage, but you shut down because of the heat. :-)
I always liked that mech. I had fun making new weapons loadouts for it. My friends preferred Madcats though.
You can't enlarge a wildshaped druid, polymorph effect doesn't get added to a polymorph effect.
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I always liked that mech. I had fun making new weapons loadouts for it. My friends preferred Madcats though.That brings back memories... also in battletech, there's the clan Nova/Black Hawk mech, a medium mech that mounts 12 ER medium lasers. Sure, you can fire all at once, doing lots of damage, but you shut down because of the heat. :-)
Oh you done derailed the thread now:
Clan stolen Warhammer with Starcom weapons, replace all the laser weapons with Guass Cannon/Machine guns. Replace jumpjets with additional heatsinks. Sit halfway in the water and 'death blossom'...
I always liked that mech. I had fun making new weapons loadouts for it. My friends preferred Madcats though.That brings back memories... also in battletech, there's the clan Nova/Black Hawk mech, a medium mech that mounts 12 ER medium lasers. Sure, you can fire all at once, doing lots of damage, but you shut down because of the heat. :-)
Oh you done derailed the thread now:
Clan stolen Warhammer with Starcom weapons, replace all the laser weapons with Guass Cannon/Machine guns. Replace jumpjets with additional heatsinks. Sit halfway in the water and 'death blossom'...
Rebuilt later-model Crusader with Clan tech. Reliable damage out to 21 hexes, once the Artemis IV kicked in. Had enough extra tons to put a large pulse laser in the center torso. Solid, lots of fun.
For the Black Hawk, I think my favorite was the ECM model I built, full of electronic goodies. Not the greatest in combat, but between Beagles, Artemis, and a bunch of missiles, pretty good as a medium scout.
I was never fond of Warhammers, those were my friends' favorites. I did better with medium mechs for the most part, and I had a friend who liked light and medium mechs. He always had MASC system issues though; locked up 3 in a row in one fight. Me, I just got blasted a lot by people with unholy luck, so I enjoyed designing more than playing.
Enjoy the extra elemental dice from your upgraded bows while you can in the mid-levels, because as soon as everything you face has DR5/(elements), those enhancements are 83.3% nerfed (eventually facing elemental DR is one reason I don't bother getting it for bows).
Resistance =/= Damage Reduction
While identical in function, they are entirely separate mechanics.
Side note, I believe the term nova came from Battletech. In that game, you had to pick which weapons you were going to use each round. Most of the time, you were trying to manage your heat levels by not using all of your weapons. You could use all your weapons in a single round to do a large amount of damage, but that would generally cause your mech to overheat, and force you into shutdown. In that game this was referred to as an "Alpha Strike" or "Going Nova". The Nova part was a reference to your heat levels, and because overheating could also cook off your ammo stores and cause your mech to literally explode.
I think it actually came from the Marvel Super Heroes RPG, which came out the same year as battletech (1984). One of the heroes, Human Torch, had a Nova power (it was called Nova Flame), which one basically a one shot, everybody dies, you pass out ability.
At least, that was where our group got it from.
You can't enlarge a wildshaped druid, polymorph effect doesn't get added to a polymorph effect.
Enlarge Person is transmutation IIRC.
You can't enlarge a wildshaped druid, polymorph effect doesn't get added to a polymorph effect.Enlarge Person is transmutation IIRC.
You are right about enlarge person, it's not of polymorph subschool, i was wrong about that.
But still you can't have two effects that alter your size.
You could cast strong jaw for a 2-size increase.
Sorry for the derail.