Right now I'm playing a cleric to help heal the party, but I'd like to focus more on melee and be in the front lines. Should I multi-class with a Paladin, and then grab some Holy Avenger?
Im playing a Damphir, level 3 Cleric. My focused domain is Fire. My stats are: 16 STR, 12 DEX, 10 CON, 8 INT, 14 WIS, 16 CHA. I have Extra Channeling and Selective Channeling for my feats. I'm using a Scimitar which will eventually have Keen, giving me a 15-20 critical. I also have Flame of The Dawnflower trait giving me a +2 dam to any critical hits with a Scimitar. I'm also using a shield and eventually I'll be wearing full plate.
Suggestions? Thanks!
I say stick with cleric. You will be much more versatile and powerful.
I second this. Multiclassing is a great way to dilute Class Abilities.
If done right Multiclassing can work quite well, but you need to be able to identify individual class strengths and how to effectively stack them. In my experience, it's not nearly as easy as you think it is.
eventually I'll be wearing full plate.Well, then you'd better multiclass, because clerics don't have heavy armor proficiency. ;)
He could also burn a Feat and get the proficiency that way.
Don't bother with Paladin, go Cleric/Holy Vindicator. If you want to do this. You don't lose much Cleric Wise in doing so but gain lots for combat. If you go 8 level of HV you lose 2 spell casting levels and don't lose anything else. You can even take trait to gain back the caster level for those two lost levels.
In exchange for those 2 spell casting levels you gain +2 BAB, some class skills, Heavy Armor Proficiency and list of class features for 8 levels of HV.
eventually I'll be wearing full plate.Well, then you'd better multiclass, because clerics don't have heavy armor proficiency. ;)
I also vote to take the feat.
If you want to mulitclass, I would suggest avoiding Paladin for the simple reason that your healing powers (Lay on Hands and Mercies) will not benefit you as a Dhampir, unless the race has been modified in your game.
Gimp my full caster class level or take a feat? Go with the feat.eventually I'll be wearing full plate.Well, then you'd better multiclass, because clerics don't have heavy armor proficiency. ;)
Hmm, one level of fighter that gives me +1 BAB, an extra feat, and heavy armor proficiency, or stick with a melee cleric that could use those feats better elsewhere...
Multiclass as a barbarian and pick up Rage Prophet.
Only works with the Oracle as you need the Mystery class feature.
I'm going to say the unpopular thing: it's your character, and the concept sounds fun and playable -- AS LONG AS you work out the possible issues with the dhampir race.
In 3.5 no less, I played a multiclass fighter/cleric (4 levels fighter, cleric rest of the way) and never regretted it. She was an effective meleer that kept her fellow meleers healed while hitting hard herself.
She did have Practiced Spellcaster, which kept her effective caster level high, which you can also do to an extent with the Magical Knack Trait (+2 to caster level not exceeding HD, rather than +4). I've run high level Pathfinder games, and in my personal experience, super duper high caster level is not the magical must-have that I hear others suggest. No, you don't want a 20th level character with a caster level of 2 most of the time (and even that might be used viably in some concepts), but if your Caster Level is a few levels lower than character level, you'll probably be fine. You might get access to a higher level spell a little later than others will--and indeed, that is something you do need to take into consideration.
But especially AS a melee cleric, most of the spells you'll be casting are buffs and heals, and you can get by just fine with those at less than max caster level. I totally disagree with Cheapy above me for that matter--I personally (and again based on my personal experience) think a dip to boost your BAB, get a feat, and get your heavy armor is a great idea for a war-priest concept, and a single level is a minimal ding to your caster level.
But ultimately, whether you think I've got a good idea or am completely utterly insane--play what you think is the most fun.
I'm all in favor for crazy ideas that work. My GM allowed me to play a Warforged Paladin once. If all you want is to be a more effective melee combatant, take a level or two of fighter, with maybe one of the archetypes that matches with the weapon choices you've already made. It all depends on the deity or philosophy your cleric follows at present.
I'm going to say the unpopular thing: it's your character, and the concept sounds fun and playable -- AS LONG AS you work out the possible issues with the dhampir race.
In 3.5 no less, I played a multiclass fighter/cleric (4 levels fighter, cleric rest of the way) and never regretted it. She was an effective meleer that kept her fellow meleers healed while hitting hard herself.
She did have Practiced Spellcaster, which kept her effective caster level high, which you can also do to an extent with the Magical Knack Trait (+2 to caster level not exceeding HD, rather than +4). I've run high level Pathfinder games, and in my personal experience, super duper high caster level is not the magical must-have that I hear others suggest. No, you don't want a 20th level character with a caster level of 2 most of the time (and even that might be used viably in some concepts), but if your Caster Level is a few levels lower than character level, you'll probably be fine. You might get access to a higher level spell a little later than others will--and indeed, that is something you do need to take into consideration.
But especially AS a melee cleric, most of the spells you'll be casting are buffs and heals, and you can get by just fine with those at less than max caster level. I totally disagree with Cheapy above me for that matter--I personally (and again based on my personal experience) think a dip to boost your BAB, get a feat, and get your heavy armor is a great idea for a war-priest concept, and a single level is a minimal ding to your caster level.
But ultimately, whether you think I've got a good idea or am completely utterly insane--play what you think is the most fun.
My point was as a melee cleric, one level of fighter is a *great* thing. You get Heavy Armor Proficiency, meaning you don't have to spend a feat. You get one more BAB, meaning you hit more often == more damage. This is basically Weapon Focus, but works with whatever weapons you have. You get a free feat above and beyond the Heavy Armor Prof. Hell, you get +2 Fort, which may as well be an extra feat.
So for the loss of one casting level, which doesn't really matter since you're mostly buffing yourself, you get the equivalent of four feats. Heavy Armor Proficiency, Weapon Focus, Great Fortitude, and a bonus feat of your choice. Also you get Martial Weapons.
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Man, everyone seems obsessed with gaining full spellcasting progression, even at the cost of playing a fun character.
Personally, I would grab a level of fighter instead of paladin. Paladin is nice, but many of their powers are made redundant by your cleric spells. If you're looking to get in the front lines, heavy armor proficiency and an extra feat may pay off in the long run.
If you do go with HV, you should probably take Versatile Casting, so you can channel negative energy to use in your channel smites.
One of their abilities sickens the enemy when you channel smite, and that's basically useless against Undead.
You get one more BAB, meaning you hit more often == more damage.
No, you don't. You get a fraction of an additional point of BAB.
Cleric vs Cleric with one level of Fighter, BAB by character level, every level where the one-dip has a higher BAB italicized:
2nd: +1 . . . +1
3rd: +2 . . . +2
4th: +3 . . . +3
5th: +3 . . . +4
6th: +4 . . . +4
7th: +5 . . . +5
8th: +6 . . . +6
9th: +6 . . . +7
10th: +7 . . . +7
11th: +8 . . . +8
12th: +9 . . . +9
13th: +9 . . . +10
14th: +10 . . . +10
15th: +11 . . . +11
16th: +12 . . . +12
17th: +12 . . . +13
18th: +13 . . . +13
19th: +14 . . . +14
20th: +15 . . . +15
In an entire 20-level career, that level of fighter got the cleric extra BAB on all of four levels.
In order to get a permanent +1 BAB advantage over a straight cleric, you need to take four levels of a full-BAB class.
Hell, you get +2 Fort, which may as well be an extra feat.
Again, not exactly. Cleric vs Cleric with one level of Fighter, Fort/Ref/Will saves by character level:
2nd: +3/+3 . . . +4/+2
3rd: +3/+3 . . . +5/+3
4th: +4/+4 . . . +5/+3
5th: +4/+4 . . . +6/+4
6th: +5/+5 . . . +6/+4
7th: +5/+5 . . . +7/+5
8th: +6/+6 . . . +7/+5
9th: +6/+6 . . . +8/+6
10th: +7/+7 . . . +8/+6
11th: +7/+7 . . . +9/+7
12th: +8/+8 . . . +9/+7
13th: +8/+8 . . . +10/+8
14th: +9/+9 . . . +10/+8
15th: +9/+9. . . +11/+9
16th: +10/+10 . . . +11/+9
17th: +10/+10 . . . +12/+10
18th: +11/+11 . . . +12/+10
19th: +11/+11 . . . +13/+11
20th: +12/+12 . . . +13/+11
So, it's a +2 to Fort half the time, +1 half the time . . . matched by a -1 to Will half the time. A good deal, but not a feat. And the deal gets substantially worse if you take a full four levels in order to make the BAB advantage permanent.
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If your going to make a melee cleric. The stats you have ok if you where doing a point buy you could have done much better. You will need every point of to hit you can get.
Multiclassing with a fighter is a bad idea. If your going to take levels of a melee class for heavy armor and martal weapons. With your stats. I recomend paladin 2 ( Divine Grace, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day). The bonus to saves with a 16 Cha, and the one smite evil a day to bypass DR is well worth the investment. The other thing to rember is you don't want to start multiclassing a cleric untill level 3 so you have the ability to use lesser restoration scrolls. And will if your in a paizo adventure at this level stock up on like 20 of them if you can.
If you where going scimitar and not going for two weapon fighting. I think you should have going Dervish Dance. Alowing you to change your dex and str. Giving you the same to hit and damage, but a higher initiative bonus. Why still useing the scimitar.
Thanks everyone!
I automatically get the Heavy Armor proficiency once I start the Holy Vindicator prestige.
If your going to make a melee cleric. The stats you have ok if you where doing a point buy you could have done much better. You will need every point of to hit you can get.
Multiclassing with a fighter is a bad idea. If your going to take levels of a melee class for heavy armor and martal weapons. With your stats. I recomend paladin 2 ( Divine Grace, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day). The bonus to saves with a 16 Cha, and the one smite evil a day to bypass DR is well worth the investment. The other thing to rember is you don't want to start multiclassing a cleric untill level 3 so you have the ability to use lesser restoration scrolls. And will if your in a paizo adventure at this level stock up on like 20 of them if you can.
If you where going scimitar and not going for two weapon fighting. I think you should have going Dervish Dance. Alowing you to change your dex and str. Giving you the same to hit and damage, but a higher initiative bonus. Why still useing the scimitar.
We're playing Rise of the Rune Lords, and we're going to be starting book 2 this week. The point buy is 20, so what would you suggest as far as attribute dispersion?
Dervish Dance wont work since I would like to use a shield and take advantage of Vindicator's Shield from the prestige.
If you want to mulitclass, I would suggest avoiding Paladin for the simple reason that your healing powers (Lay on Hands and Mercies) will not benefit you as a Dhampir, unless the race has been modified in your game.
You're right, so I need to use Cause Wound spells to heal myself. Channel Energy and any Lay On Hands are for the party.
If you do go with HV, you should probably take Versatile Casting, so you can channel negative energy to use in your channel smites.
One of their abilities sickens the enemy when you channel smite, and that's basically useless against Undead.
I don't believe I can choose Versatile Channeling since Sarenrae is a Good Aligned deity.
There has been great debate over this topic in my group and we came to this consensus.
If your purpose as cleric is to be the parties primary healer and/or undead bane then do not multiclass as the cleric's class abilities are watered down way too much.
If by some chance your are not the primary healer and the campaign your in is lacking in undead then multiclass but don't completely neglect the cleric class by alternating levels.
Just an opinion of course all characters and players are different and what works for one won't work for everybody.
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You started with: 16 STR, 12 DEX, 10 CON, 8 INT, 14 WIS, 16 CHA
This is a good if your going HV with heavy armor and shield. The advantage here is BAB and damage.
Personly: 10Str 18Dex 10Con 8Int 14Wis 16Cha
Take two levels of paladin, and two levels of monk. Put all level incresses in to Dex. And go Dervish Dance. With the dex incress puts your ac the same as using the shield. Along with given you a higher to hit and damage with the scimitar and a initiative bonus. The advantage here is Divine Grace, Evasion, AC(Yes this will have a higher AC vs HV).
There has been great debate over this topic in my group and we came to this consensus.
If your purpose as cleric is to be the parties primary healer and/or undead bane then do not multiclass as the cleric's class abilities are watered down way too much.
If by some chance your are not the primary healer and the campaign your in is lacking in undead then multiclass but don't completely neglect the cleric class by alternating levels.
Just an opinion of course all characters and players are different and what works for one won't work for everybody.
The party understands that I'd like to be in the front lines and Channel heal when needed. We also have a witch that heals as well as a quite a few healing potions so I feel that we're covered.
My perspective is that I would like to play something enjoyable; so combat based with buffs to enhance my attacks, plus also the ability to heal the party when needed.
You started with: 16 STR, 12 DEX, 10 CON, 8 INT, 14 WIS, 16 CHA
This is a good if your going HV with heavy armor and shield. The advantage here is BAB and damage.Personly: 10Str 18Dex 10Con 8Int 14Wis 16Cha
Take two levels of paladin, and two levels of monk. Put all level incresses in to Dex. And go Dervish Dance. With the dex incress puts your ac the same as using the shield. Along with given you a higher to hit and damage with the scimitar and a initiative bonus. The advantage here is Divine Grace, Evasion, AC(Yes this will have a higher AC vs HV).
Out of curiosity, how would you level this build up until 12, 6 of Monk and 6 of Paladin?
The party understands that I'd like to be in the front lines and Channel heal when needed. We also have a witch that heals as well as a quite a few healing potions so I feel that we're covered.
Don't forget to pick up Selective Channeling if you're going to depend on Channeling for healing, otherwise you wind up healing the enemy from the front lines.
The party understands that I'd like to be in the front lines and Channel heal when needed. We also have a witch that heals as well as a quite a few healing potions so I feel that we're covered.Don't forget to pick up Selective Channeling if you're going to depend on Channeling for healing, otherwise you wind up healing the enemy from the front lines.
Got that and extra channeling, thanks.
First off you have CON of 8 and no way should be any where close to melee... see if can move your stats around.
Second what is you party make up, and there roles. Cause I think you need to fill you first role first.
HEALER.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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First off you have CON of 8 and no way should be any where close to melee... see if can move your stats around.
Second what is you party make up, and there roles. Cause I think you need to fill you first role first.
HEALER.
If I'm reading it right, I think the 8 is actually his INT, with a 10 CON. But that's still a little shaky for melee, I agree.
Though unlike in 4E, clerics are not necessarily healers as their primary roles. They are far more flexible than that.