When you cast a touch spell, do you receive a free touch attack? What if you're too far from the target to do that free attack? Can you cast the spell, move next to your target and then hit it with a free attack? Or do you need to wait until your next round to approach the target and attack?
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When you cast a touch spell, do you receive a free touch attack? What if you're too far from the target to do that free attack? Can you cast the spell, move next to your target and then hit it with a free attack? Or do you need to wait until your next round to approach the target and attack?
actually you can make the free touch attack at any point after, and at anytime in the same round, even during movement.
you could cast a touch spell, move 10 feet, touch someone, then continue moving up to the rest of your movement.
When you cast a touch spell, do you receive a free touch attack?
On the round of spell casting only, yes.
To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action
What if you're too far from the target to do that free attack? Can you cast the spell, move next to your target and then hit it with a free attack?
Yes, and this is a good idea, because you're out of attack of opportunity range that way.
You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#touch-spells-in-combat
This information being recalled to me raises an interesting question for me:
What about Spell-like abilities with a range of touch?
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): Using a spell-like ability works like casting a spell in that it requires concentration and provokes attacks of opportunity. Spell-like abilities can be disrupted. If your concentration is broken, the attempt to use the ability fails, but the attempt counts as if you had used the ability. The casting time of a spell-like ability is 1 standard action, unless the ability description notes otherwise.
Using a Spell-Like Ability on the Defensive: You may attempt to use a spell-like ability on the defensive, just as with casting a spell. If the concentration check (DC 15 + double the spell's level) fails, you can't use the ability, but the attempt counts as if you had used the ability.
(also from http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#touch-spells-in-combat
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): Spell-like abilities, as the name implies, are magical abilities that are very much like spells. Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). Spell-like abilities can be dispelled and counterspelled as normal.
It would seem to me that the same rules for spells would cover Spell-Like Abilities. Are there any rules or clauses that I'm missing that contradict my interpretation?
It would seem to me that the same rules for spells would cover Spell-Like Abilities. Are there any rules or clauses that I'm missing that contradict my interpretation?
They would follow the same rules.
What about 'holding a charge'? Do you necessarily have to take the free attack the same round as the cast? Or if you wanted to hold it, would you have to spend a standard action the following round to discharge the touch spell?
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What about 'holding a charge'? Do you necessarily have to take the free attack the same round as the cast? Or if you wanted to hold it, would you have to spend a standard action the following round to discharge the touch spell?
You would have to make a melee attack in the following round, either as an attack action (standard), part of a full attack action (full round) or some similar combination.
What's the longest you could hold a charge of a touch spell like, say, Cure Light Wounds or Chill Touch? With the advent of the Magus, I find myself more interested in touch spell rules now, lol.
Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
You can hold a charge of a touch spell indefinitely.
Follow-up question: If I elect to Hold the Charge on a Touch spell, walk up to an enemy in a later round and, rather than attempt to punch my foe, I only try to touch him to discharge the spell, my attack should not provoke an attack of opportunity, right? (Whereas if I did try to punch him, and my unarmed attack would normally provoke attacks of opportunity, I would provoke attacks of opportunity as usual, per the description in Holding the Charge, right?)
Another question: Does Holding the Charge require any kind of concentration check? (I don't think it should, as it's not listed in things that one makes a concentration check for in the spellcasting section, nor does the language I quote above from the Combat section seem to suggest that Concentration is required...)
Another question: If under the effects of Spectral Hand, a caster that casts a Touch spell could either use the free action Touch attack to elect to deliver the Touch via Spectral Hand at medium range, deliver the Touch via standard touch attack, of Hold the Charge and deliver the Touch via Spectral Hand or standard touch on a subsequent turn.
Another question: While Holding the Charge, is the Touch spell constrained to a specific hand or other appendage, or will the act of walking (your feet touch the ground), bumping into someone next to you with your shoulder, or being bumped into in the shoulder by someone else be sufficient to discharge the spell? (I prefer the notion that the Touch effect be constrained to an appendage while the Charge is being Held at least...)
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Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.You can hold a charge of a touch spell indefinitely.
Follow-up question: If I elect to Hold the Charge on a Touch spell, walk up to an enemy in a later round and, rather than attempt to punch my foe, I only try to touch him to discharge the spell, my attack should not provoke an attack of opportunity, right?
Correct. You are considered to be armed. You also, by the way, threaten an area and can make an attack of opportunity using the spell charge.
Another question: Does Holding the Charge require any kind of concentration check? (I don't think it should, as it's not listed in things that one makes a concentration check for in the spellcasting section, nor does the language I quote above from the Combat section seem to suggest that Concentration is required...)
No, it doesn't require any check, unless the GM wants to call for some sort of DEX or WIS check in a circumstance where you're in danger of touching something with the charged hand.
So does being able to hold a touch spell indefinitely mean that a Magus can essentially 'charge' a Shocking Grasp before the battle, then discharge it in his first full attack, then using Spell Combat to cast it again and get off two Shocking Grasps in a round?
You'd just have to be careful not to forget about the touch spell charge and give your party members any congratulatory high fives ;)
So does being able to hold a touch spell indefinitely mean that a Magus can essentially 'charge' a Shocking Grasp before the battle, then discharge it in his first full attack, then using Spell Combat to cast it again and get off two Shocking Grasps in a round?
You'd just have to be careful not to forget about the touch spell charge and give your party members any congratulatory high fives ;)
By the rules, you can hold a charge until you touch something with the hand holding the charge, so be very careful about anything you do until then. Also, the act of casting another spell (even if it is the same spell) discharges the held charge automatically. Using spell combat would only work (in my opinion) if the held charge were used as part of a melee attack, and then the second spell would be used as a touch attack.
Thanks a lot for the answers!
I have a similar question
Since you count as being armed with a held touch spell and must make a melee touch attack to use it can you use it to perform a combat maneuver like sunder (ex could you sunder someone with a shocking grasp or corrosive touch spell?)
No reason you couldn't TRY, but the way elemental damage works with objects means you're pretty unlikely to succeed unless its something like rusting grasp.
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I have a similar question
Since you count as being armed with a held touch spell and must make a melee touch attack to use it can you use it to perform a combat maneuver like sunder (ex could you sunder someone with a shocking grasp or corrosive touch spell?)
You might have a problem by a strict reading of the RAW, since Sunder must be performed as part of the Attack action, not the Cast a Spell action. If you cast in one round, then attacked to sunder in the next round, that would work.
Because of the nature of touches spells, would you be able to use the held charge of a spell to deal damage while attemping a combat maneuver that wouldn't normally deal damage, like an unarmed Trip or Grapple? Or could a Magus using the Spellstrike method of delivering touch spells discharge it on a Sunder attempt? Though I think monks (or anyone with Improved Unarmed Strike) can attempt unarmed Sunders.
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Because of the nature of touches spells, would you be able to use the held charge of a spell to deal damage while attemping a combat maneuver that wouldn't normally deal damage, like an unarmed Trip or Grapple?
That doesn't seem right. I think you would have to concentrate on one action or the other. If you chose the trip/grapple and allowed your charged hand to go where it would, your magical touch would go somewhere, all right, but not necessarily onto the opponent - you might touch the ground or surroundings, yourself, your gear, an adjacent ally, etc., but for simplicity, sanity and your own good, it should effectively discharge without affecting anyone.
Or could a Magus using the Spellstrike method of delivering touch spells discharge it on a Sunder attempt? Though I think monks (or anyone with Improved Unarmed Strike) can attempt unarmed Sunders.
I don't see any restriction on what weapon you use to sunder, only what type of action. Spellstrike is part of casting a spell, so technically not an attack action.
High-level monks can attempt unarmed sunders because their unarmed damage is both lethal and large enough that it might actually succeed.
Because of the nature of touches spells, would you be able to use the held charge of a spell to deal damage while attemping a combat maneuver that wouldn't normally deal damage, like an unarmed Trip or Grapple? Or could a Magus using the Spellstrike method of delivering touch spells discharge it on a Sunder attempt? Though I think monks (or anyone with Improved Unarmed Strike) can attempt unarmed Sunders.
This is really a GM call, but it seems reasonable to me. For the sunder I would say not but for the trip or grapple I would say yes.
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As a magus, if you miss with a touch spell cast through your weapon on the first round, can you hold the charge and deliver it through your weapon the next round?
For Example:
Round 1: Cast Shocking Grasp, use sword to make attack in place of touch, miss.
Round 2: Attack normally with sword attacking AC. Hit, and discharge shocking grasp plus sword damage.
OR
Round 2: Attack with hand for touch AC, hit and discharge shocking grasp.
I guess I want to make sure I'm doing this correctly, as it says a magus can make a spellstrike when *casting* a spell, but it doesn't mention anything regarding holding the charge.
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As a magus, if you miss with a touch spell cast through your weapon on the first round, can you hold the charge and deliver it through your weapon the next round?
For Example:
Round 1: Cast Shocking Grasp, use sword to make attack in place of touch, miss.
Round 2: Attack normally with sword attacking AC. Hit, and discharge shocking grasp plus sword damage.
OR
Round 2: Attack with hand for touch AC, hit and discharge shocking grasp.
I guess I want to make sure I'm doing this correctly, as it says a magus can make a spellstrike when *casting* a spell, but it doesn't mention anything regarding holding the charge.
It should work exactly as if the weapon attack replaces the touch attack he would make normally, edit: or to put it another way, as if he holds the charge on his wielded weapon rather than his hand. In round 2, he can make an attack with the weapon he used for Spellstrike to deliver the spell. He can't choose to deliver it with his hand or any other means (such as a familiar). It's interesting to speculate whether he can then make a touch attack with his weapon. On second thought, he probably can.
An enemy trying to disarm or sunder his weapon touches the weapon and receives the spell charge. If it's disarmed or sundered by a ranged shot or spell, the charge dissipates.
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you could cast a touch spell, move 10 feet, touch someone, then continue moving up to the rest of your movement.I can't seem to find this stated in the rulebook. Are you sure that it's right?
I found "You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target."
It's not right. The passage you quote defines how touch spells and movement interact. You definitely can not do what Name Violation suggests.
So here's the question I come up with after all of this.
Does a caster who is reaching INTO a threatened square provoke an attack of opportunity when casting a heal spell on a companion?
Why should he? He is casting (which would provoke) in an unthreatened square... and the actual act of delivering a touch spell does not provoke. It wouldn't even provoke if said caster were standing in a threatened square while delivering the touch.
Yes it is right.
You are delivering the touch spell as a free action. What you quoted is giving examples much like is done throughout the rules.
You can perform a free action at anytime during a move on your turn.
Provided you deliver the touch during your move in the same turn you cast that spell, yes. In later rounds, no dice (delivering is a free action only during the turn you cast).
Appreciate the response, but I did specifically ask for documentation and not just opinion. There are several rules in the published rules regarding similar situations, but none that directly refer to this act.
The rules contain clearly which actions provoke an Attack of Opportunity. Delivering a touch is not among them.
Plus, to provoke an AoO you actually need to be in a threatened square (since your attacker wannabe cannot actually attack you otherwise). Which you aren't.
Appreciate the response, but I did specifically ask for documentation and not just opinion. There are several rules in the published rules regarding similar situations, but none that directly refer to this act.
From the Core Rule Book section on Combat, under "Provoking An Attack of Opportunity" seen here, with bolded emphasis mine:
Provoking an Attack of Opportunity: Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing certain actions within a threatened square.
Moving: Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot step and the withdraw action.
Performing a Distracting Act: Some actions, when performed in a threatened square, provoke attacks of opportunity as you divert your attention from the battle. Table: Actions in Combat notes many of the actions that provoke attacks of opportunity.
The action of touching is not being performed in a threatened square. In Pathfinder, reaching through air into the next square is abstracted away, and your character is still in the unthreatened square, not provoking.
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Guys.. just to be sure.. a spell-like touch of evil (evil domain) charge can be held for as long as necessary right?
So, the cleric could cast it, and be considered armed while trying to touch a PC. When he finally hits (lets say it took 3 attempts at 1 attempt per round) only one charge would be expended (he can do that 6 time per day)
That is my understanding. I would appreciate if someone could confirm.
Thanks!
a spell-like touch of evil (evil domain) charge can be held for as long as necessary right?
Spell-Like Abilities: "A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell."
If Touch of Evil (Sp) is considered to be like a spell with Range: Touch then it should work that way.
Since it doesn't specify a range, it's not 100%, so check with your GM first, but it's really the only way to make those abilities not kind of suck since otherwise you're always provoking in melee range.