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Here's something that I've always hated about D&D, and thus by proxy continue to hate about Pathfinder.
You know how in movies there's sometimes a guy who gets stabbed or shot and then lies there dying until the main character can get to him, and then he says something monumentally important to the plot and croaks?
You can't do that RAW in any version of D&D or in Pathfinder. In Basic and Advanced 1E you were either 100% alive or you were 100% dead. I think 2E introduced the -10 as an optional rule, and then 3E solidified it.
By 3.5/Pathfinder you are either 100% alive, disabled, dying or dead. But talking is a free action, so you do that all you want when you're disabled, and you can't do it at all when you're dying - because you're also unconscious.
Of course, you can totally handwave it and do it anyways, but sometimes that bites you in the behind.
Say you have an NPC general you want to die for the story after he gives command of his army to the players to fight the BBEG's army, your whole plan can be unraveled by one player with a cure light wounds handy. Not exactly hard to come by. This really sucks if his last words were, oh, let's say: "I am done for. You must lead my army into battle against the BBEG's forces now. Only you can do it. Gasp. Argh. I have faith in you. Grunt. Do not fail me! x.x"
And then the stupid cleric goes "Dear lord, please do not let this important plot point occur. Amen." and the general opens his eyes and says "Oh, I'm suddenly conscious and in no mortal danger! Huzzah! I'll take my army back now, thank you."
And yes, that is a true story (more or less) from a 2E campaign I ran.
But I just had an epiphany. Mortal wounds! I know how to model them! Just like diseases! Except you "catch" them by being reduced to disabled or dying by a critical hit.
Here's some examples of what I'm thinking:
Sucking Chest Wound
Type mortal wound; Save Fortitude DC 23
Onset immediate; Frequency 1/round
Effect 1d3 Con damage; Cure 2 saves
Gutshot
Type mortal wound; Save Fortitude DC 18
Onset immediate; Frequency 1/hour
Effect 1d2 Con damage; Cure 1 save
Head Trauma
Type debilitating injury; Save Fortitude DC 15
Onset immediate; Frequency 1/day
Effect 1d2 Int damage; Cure 4 saves
Thoughts?
You could expand this to trigger at higher play levels when the massive damage/trauma stuff crops up.
Since you're phrasing this as "reveal important plot point", I would limit it as such - and don't bother otherwise.
You don't need a rule for it. GM Fiat works just fine. It happens at a certain point in SCAP.
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You don't need a rule for it. GM Fiat works just fine. It happens at a certain point in SCAP.
SCAP?
The problem is, as I mentioned, that one cure light wounds spell and suddenly you're handwaving away a player ability, and in my experience that tends to piss them off. Which turns the whole important NPC dying into less of a moving and memorable plot point and more into an example (in the player's mind) of the DM railroading.
But make the general gutshot and the players may need more powerful magic than they've got to save him (lesser restoration is much harder for the average PC to pull out of his *backpocket* than a cure light, since cure light potions tend to be a dime a dozen).
Director of Narrative
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But make the general gutshot and the players may need more powerful magic than they've got to save him (lesser restoration is much harder for the average PC to pull out of his *backpocket* than a cure light, since cure light potions tend to be a dime a dozen).
Allow me to retort...
Casting Time 1 round
Components V, S
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
Encouraging word provides a +1 bonus per caster level to the subject’s next saving throw against a mortal wound.
:)
This is an excellent idea Gail.
Sending me back to the drawing board on a bunch of death/dying work I was doing a while ago...
But make the general gutshot and the players may need more powerful magic than they've got to save him...
Since this is mainly to advance plot points (as using the same logic on characters would be, um, unpopular possibly?), why not have that fatal wound inflicted by an 'Assassins Blade of Wounding' or some such special strike from an assassin or certain evil/unholy creatures? Much like certain evil beings or creatures, this wound cannot be healed by lesser magics or lower leveled priests and may even require limited wish, wish or Miracle to heal with magic before a set bleed out time?
The Jhereg series of books by Steven Brust had 'ressurection' magic in the world, but not if you were killed with one of the rare, soul sapping 'Morganti Blades', which made you forever dead (or if you had the time to really destroy the victims brain). I can only guess that assassin socities in most FRPG worlds would have developed such magic or weapons.
After all, if you assassinate or kill someone of import or power, the odds are pretty good that your going to be brought back from the dead in a high Fantasy world and assassins would then be pretty much 'stern warnings' without a means to make sure the target did not return.
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After all, if you assassinate or kill someone of import or power, the odds are pretty good that your going to be brought back from the dead in a high Fantasy world and assassins would then be pretty much 'stern warnings' without a means to make sure the target did not return.
The Red Mantis have abilities that allow them to sense if someone they killed is raised from the dead. I would imagine their success rate discourages people from bothering to do it, as the contract is considered incomplete if they are raised.
That, and quieting needles.
Rather than have someone possibly recover on their own from a sucking chest wound, how about this?:
Say you have an NPC general you want to die for the story after he gives command of his army to the players to fight the BBEG's army, your whole plan can be unraveled by one player with a cure light wounds handy. Not exactly hard to come by. This really sucks if his last words were, oh, let's say: "I am done for. You must lead my army into battle against the BBEG's forces now. Only you can do it. Gasp. Argh. I have faith in you. Grunt. Do not fail me! x.x"
And then the stupid cleric goes "Dear lord, please do not let this important plot point occur. Amen."
And then the DM says, "Alas, even before you start casting, you realize the general is dead."
Rather than have someone possibly recover on their own from a sucking chest wound, how about this?:
Say you have an NPC general you want to die for the story after he gives command of his army to the players to fight the BBEG's army, your whole plan can be unraveled by one player with a cure light wounds handy. Not exactly hard to come by. This really sucks if his last words were, oh, let's say: "I am done for. You must lead my army into battle against the BBEG's forces now. Only you can do it. Gasp. Argh. I have faith in you. Grunt. Do not fail me! x.x"
And then the stupid cleric goes "Dear lord, please do not let this important plot point occur. Amen."
And then the DM says, "Alas, even before you start casting, you realize the general is dead."
While poetic, I think that this can still come off as GM Fiat handwaving away PC abilities, which the OP wanted to avoid. <shrug>
Now me, I prefer to just sit my players down at the start of an adventure or campaign and say "Now folks, please remember that the rules of the game are an abstraction that well-describe the majority of in-game events. That said, there will be times that in-game events necessarily diverge from any possible good description under the rules. These events will be rare, and will almost never happen to PCs (because where's the fun in that?) but may still happen from time to time in the interests of the story we're all telling together. Or in short, I may use "Cutscenes" to move the story along at plot-critical points." Then, if any of my players have objections, I invite them to talk about it with me later, and I try to work something out.
Once, this policy resulted in a player deciding not to participate, and once it involved me making a substantial alteration to my intended plot progression, but in general my players seem willing to accept a certain degree of GM Fiat if they know that it's in the offing. (Then again, my players say that I'm a particularly good storytelling GM, which probably does influence their willingness to let me drive the plot witha free hand at times. YMMV.)
That used to happen to me all the time, my plot point or hook would be destroyed by one players spell or action. i think part of being a good dm is "rolling with the proverbial punches" or journals work real well they just happen to write the last will and testament in a journal in there pocket. you cant heal a journal! but in general I like all the suggestions mentioned.
That used to happen to me all the time,
isn't your doctor tired of you?
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That used to happen to me all the time,isn't your doctor tired of you?
heyooo! badabum badabum
Now me, I prefer to just sit my players down at the start of an adventure or campaign and say "Now folks, please remember that the rules of the game are an abstraction that well-describe the majority of in-game events. That said, there will be times that in-game events necessarily diverge from any possible good description under the rules. These events will be rare, and will almost never happen to PCs (because where's the fun in that?) but may still happen from time to time in the interests of the story we're all telling together. Or in short, I may use "Cutscenes" to move the story along at plot-critical points."
Ah! Someone who gets that RPGing is not just about the game but about the STORY as well. If more players trusted their ref to be fair and more ref's held story important like you do I bet EVERYONE would have a better time Role-Playing.
Some of the best games I have been in have been run like TV or movies series.
Mortal wounds might be a bit complicated. You could just give everyone, PC & NPC alike a dying utterance. Simpler, gives the PCs a chance to have cool last words if they die so it isn't just a GM plot point thing.
Dying Utterance: Immediately before death any character dying from failing stabilization roll(s) may, before dying, take a full round action to speak last words. These words may not be used as a part of spell, activation of a magic item, or any other reason besides communication. These words must be said in a normal volume and so may often be missed in the heat of battle (GM's discretion if possible, and what DC if any is needed to hear them). A Dying Utterance may not be interpreted by anything except the direct intervention of a deity, virtually guaranteeing death.
You don't need a rule for it. GM Fiat works just fine. It happens at a certain point in SCAP.SCAP?
The problem is, as I mentioned, that one cure light wounds spell and suddenly you're handwaving away a player ability, and in my experience that tends to piss them off. Which turns the whole important NPC dying into less of a moving and memorable plot point and more into an example (in the player's mind) of the DM railroading.
But make the general gutshot and the players may need more powerful magic than they've got to save him (lesser restoration is much harder for the average PC to pull out of his *backpocket* than a cure light, since cure light potions tend to be a dime a dozen).
How would the player know it was HP damage? :)