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So I am DMing the Sins of the Saviors leg of the campaign for our group. I'm prepping the Runeforge (the group just defeated the Old White, though with some difficulty...2 deaths averted only by hero points) and I couldn't help but look at Athroxis and realize how much she had lost out in the 3.5 ---> Pathfinder conversion over the years.
I've redone her, keeping her as a level 15 character, but bringing her into the Pathfinder fold and really focusing on strengthening her damage and survival capacity. After I did my best with it, I realized that it would probably be overkill to keep the demon around. As some sort of compensation I traded around some equipment and gave Athroxis a little more money to play with (without overwealthing the party...just tacked a few things on her bonded ring).
I'm really looking for all y'all's thoughts about the rebuild. I'm worried she's going to annihilate a few characters, but I also don't believe in softballing the bad guys once you get towards the mid-high levels. The group is also 5 to 6 people, all level 13, with a a HUGE point buy at character creation and everyone is well above recommended wealth per level.
Highlady Athroxis CR 15
Female human fighter 1/evoker [admixture focus] 5/eldritch knight 9
LE Medium humanoid (in form of Large Fire Giant)
Init +12; Senses Perception +22, Lowlight Vision
Defense
AC 34, touch 16, flat-footed 30 (6 mirror images) (melee hitters take 1d6+15 cold, half damage from fire, none with Reflex save); 38 AC with Combat Expertise
(+12 armor, +2 deflection, +3 Dex, +1 insight, +6 natural, +1 dodge, -1 size)
Resistance 20 Fire, Vulnerable to Cold
hp 190+24 temporary (15 HD; 10d10+5d6+110)
Fort +21 Ref +15 Will +16
CMD: 38 (42 w/combat expertise)
Offense
Spd 60 ft., fly 90 ft. (good)
Melee +3 flaming ranseur +31/+31/+26/+21 (1d10+18/19–20 plus 1d6 fire)
Combat Expertise: +27/+27/+22/+17 (1d10+18/19-20 plus 1d6 fire)
Armor Spikes +3: +29 (+24 w/combat expertise up) [1d8+12/19-20]
Ranged Touch: +21 Touch: +26
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft. (20 ft. with ranseur)
Spells Prepared (CL 13)
7th (3)– Giant Form I*, Quickened Still Mirror Image (1d4+4), Empowered Still Detonate (DC 21 Reflex, 15d8+2 fire damage)
6th (4)—Greater Heroism*, Quickened Still Vanish, Still Wall of Force (2)
5th (5)— Overland Flight*, Quickened Still Empowered Scorching Ray (4)
4th (6)—Empowered Still Scorching Ray (3), Greater False Life*, Greater Invisibility, Still Wind Wall
3rd (7)—Quickened Still Scorching Ray, Greater Magic Weapon (2)*, Haste*, Keen Edge (2)*, Vampiric Touch (6d6)
2nd (7)—Bull’s Strength*, Bear’s Endurance*, Cat’s Grace*, Mirror Image*, See Invisibility*, Owl’s Wisdom*, XXXX
1st (7)— Comprehend Languages*, Anticipate Peril*, Magic Missile (3), Shocking Grasp (2)
0—Detect magic, Flare (DC 17), Ray of Frost, Read Magic
Prohibited Schools abjuration and conjuration
Tactics
Before Combat: Athroxis starts each day by casting Greater Magic Weapon on her Ranseur and Armor Spikes, Overland Flight, and Greater False Life. Once she realizes the PCs are in the Halls of Wrath, she casts See Invisibility and Keen Edge (both armor spikes and ranseur), and Comprehend Languages. As soon as the fight in the previous room ends and Athroxis has watched the PCs, she begins buffing for their arrival. How many rounds they take determines how many buffs she casts. (She uses Arcane Armor Mastery to reduce her ASF to 5%. If she is unlucky and fails to cast one of the spells below, she uses her Arcane Bond ability to spontaneously cast it again.):
1: Giant Form 2: Greater Heroism 3: Mirror Image 4: Bear’s Endurance 5: Bull’s Strength 6: Cat’s Grace 7: Owl’s Wisdom 8: Anticipate Peril 9: If the PCs have not arrived yet, she once again watches them, waiting until they enter the teleporter to cast Haste.
These buffs are already included in her statistics. If the group delays long enough that she Athroxis thinks her buffs might end, she moves into the transporter and attacks them where they are, casting Greater Invisibility and Haste just before doing so. She is not a patient woman.
During Combat: In the form of a female fire giant, Athroxis tries to maintain ranged superiority and incinerate the PCs with Scorching Ray spells, all while screaming at them and taunting them in Thassilonian. In the first round of combat she activates her Flame Shield. In the event that PCs end up clustered near her, she uses an Empowered Still Detonate, trusting her resistances to take most of the sting out of it. If her mirror images run low, she uses her still quickened mirror image spell to reset them. If things get really desperate, she may try to use Quickened Still Vanish to escape PCs that can’t see invisible creatures and regain a favorable position. Wall of Force is used to try and separate the PCs into more easily handled groups, and Wind Wall is cast if there is a ranged threat in the group. If she gets the chance (and it strategically makes sense), Athroxis will use Vampiric Touch on a very wounded or even unconscious PC to finish them off in front of the rest of the group, as well as reset her Temp HP buffer.
Athroxis prefers to use Fire spells (cold is her second favorite), and always starts with these unless she already knows the PCs resist fire. If she notices that her Fire spells are not having as great of an effect as they should, she uses her Versatile Evocation power to switch the damage over to cold. She adjusts to further resistances if necessary.
If a Greater Dispel Magic is used on her she gets EXTREMELY angry and begins to scream about how much it cost her just to get one of the other wizards from a different faction to cast that into her Bonded Ring, continuing on into a tirade against people who use Abjuration magic, making references to how many people she killed and the damage she personally caused when the factions temporarily banded together to take down the fools in the Abjurant Halls of Envy. Anyone who targets her with Abjuration magic instantly becomes the object of her wrath.
Morale Athroxis fights to the death. Upon taking a hit that would drop her below 0 hp, a Contingency spell activates and sets off a Detonation (DC 21 Reflex, 10d8+2 acid damage). If the resulting damage to herself takes Athroxis’ current HP total to below her negative Constitution score, her body is disintegrated (though her gear remains). She does not wish to allow anyone who defeats her to have access to her corpse.
Statistics
Str 26, Dex 16, Con 22, Int 24, Wis 14, Cha 7
Base Atk +12
Feats: Scribe Scroll, Weapon Focus [Ranseur], Improved Initiative, Combat Expertise, Quicken Spell, Combat Reflexes, Greater Weapon Focus [Ranseur], Weapon Specialization [Ranseur], Empower Spell, Toughness, Eschew Materials, Arcane Armor Training, Arcane Armor Mastery, Still Spell, Spell Perfection [Scorching Ray]
Skills: Knowledge: Arcane +30, Knowledge: Planes +30, Spellcraft +30, Sense Motive +25, Perception +22, Fly +26, Knowledge: Nobility +30, Appraise +30
Languages: Draconic, Infernal, Thassilonian, Giant
SQ mark of wrath, arcane bond: ring
Combat Gear: Wand of clairvoyance/clairaudience (14 charges); Other Gear +4 mithral full plate(tinted red), Masterwork Armor Spikes in the shape of tongues of flame coming off her armor(tinted orange and yellow), +1 flaming ranseur, amulet of natural armor +2, headband of intellect +4 (Knw: Nobility and Appraise), Bonded Item: ring of counterspells (greater dispel magic) and protection +2, scarf of resistance +2 (takes cloak slot), spellbook, ivory statuette of herself worth 1500 gp, 150 gp worth of Detonate components
Special Abilities
Mark of Wrath (Su) Highlady Athroxis wears the mark of her rulership on her flesh—a faintly glowing tattoo-like rune on her forehead that moves through the generations from one ruler to the next. The mark of wrath provides her with a +1 insight bonus to AC and on attack and damage rolls. Once per day as a swift action, she can call upon the mark to protect her with a fire shield (CL 15th). If she is slain in combat, the mark of wrath transfers to the brow of her defeater. It can only be transferred again on that character’s death at the hands of another, but can be removed with a successful break enchantment against CL 20th. Once removed in this manner, it vanishes forever.
Intense Spells (Su) Athroxis adds +2 damage to any evocation spell that deals damage, but only once per spell.
Versatile Evocation (Su) When Athroxis casts an Evocation spell that does acid, fire, cold, or electricity damage she may change the damage dealt to any other one of the four energy types. Athroxis may use this ability 10 times per day.
Feat planning, just to make sure it all works and makes sense:
1: Weapon Focus, Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes
2: Scribe Scroll
3: Eschew Materials
5: Toughness
6: Still Spell
7: Empower Spell, Arcane Armor Training
9: Weapon Specialization
11: Arcane Armor Mastery, Combat Expertise
13: Quicken Spell
15: Greater Weapon Focus, Spell Perfection
Thanks ahead of time!
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I havent read that far in the module yet to know (or ever had a character near level 13) whether a group of 6 level 13s ought to be able to handle that, let alone more.
In all honesty, I think theyll probably be able to handle her quite nicely. Action economy is far in their favor in a 6v1 fight.
If you really arent sure though, maybe have the demon wait to join the fight if it looks like she is going to go down easy. Maybe its hanging from the ceiling while invisible waiting for an opportune moment to strike. If they are having a tough time with her, then it doesnt exist.
I havent read that far in the module yet to know (or ever had a character near level 13) whether a group of 6 level 13s ought to be able to handle that, let alone more.
In all honesty, I think theyll probably be able to handle her quite nicely. Action economy is far in their favor in a 6v1 fight.
If you really arent sure though, maybe have the demon wait to join the fight if it looks like she is going to go down easy. Maybe its hanging from the ceiling while invisible waiting for an opportune moment to strike. If they are having a tough time with her, then it doesnt exist.
That's a great idea. I'll absolutely do that. Thanks.
Thanks for sharing your conversion! I was about to convert her as a magus, but your choice makes sense too, I like it.
As for the challenge, I think godsDMit put it quite appropriately. Six characters should be able to deal with her just fine.
I toyed with the idea of a Magus as well, but I felt like it was straying too far from the whole "each wing is a dedicated Specialist wizard" idea that the dungeon was supposed to have. I actually didn't even allow myself to take abjuration or conjuration spells with Athroxis (even though it hurt my soul to not give her Shield and Magic Circle vs. Good and Stoneskin) just to stay with the original intent of the mod.
In fact, if you wanted to beef her up you could add those (technically they would cost two slots each as opposed schools, but it's not like 3.5 where she CANNOT cast them at all).
My real concern is that she can lay down quite a bit of damage in a round, and if played intelligently could present huge problems. Using Walls of Force (I gave her two castings) to divide the party scares me a little. Depending on how they spread out it could easily be a TPK, one PC at a time. Also, with her ability to strike from range with Empowered Scorching Rays (avg. 65 damage per spell) and Overland Flight she is going to be tough to reach for some of the group....and those who do get there are going to take 18.5 damage (avg. again) every time they hit her (or a mirror image...but I may soften my stance on that). In order to even get close, however, they'll be soaking AoOs and putting themselves at risk of an empowered detonate should she feel surrounded.
Hmmm....I guess we shall see. I will be dropping some hints earlier in the Halls of Wrath that the group "will feel the fiery wrath of Highlady Athroxis!" from some of her underlings. Hopefully they will toss up some resistance to fire to buy them at least a round or two before she changes up the energy type she deals with her blast spells.
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That's a great idea. I'll absolutely do that. Thanks.
Glad I could help.
The flight could be an issue, but I would think(read: hope) at 13th level they would at least have some potions of Fly purchased for the those who are completely hopeless from range.
My thinking she will be easier to handle than first glance gives her is that her AC of 34 is decent, but not too bad for a party of that level. 38 is harder to get to, but she has to be physically attacking them to use that. Cant use it with spells (at least the ones she has prepped anyway). Yes, she can total defense, but then she cant attack either.
Also, no DR will go a long way towards bringing her down, since everything that hits her (other than fire, but really, who is dumb enough to use fire vs a fire giant?) will do full damage.
The mirror images will help her live for awhile, but keep in mind those will go down to close misses as well, so they may not actually even matter vs attacks that actually hit her.
It's good to remind myself about the close misses still popping mirror images. That's important.
As for flight, it could be a MAJOR issue. The group usually just relies on a buff heavy Druid to cast Air Walk, Barkskin, and Freedom of Movement on them....but the druid is the one player who can't make it this upcoming session. I'm thinking about going back and adding a couple potions or maybe a wand with 7 charges of flying to the dragon's hoard...it'll eat up some of the group's actions to apply these effects during combat, but it's better than having them get totally hosed simply because a player that they usually rely on isn't able to make it.
Hmm. Some interesting things to think about.
Thanks again for the help, man.
Just wanted to post a follow up of what actually happened in the group when they fought the above build.
(Also, Old Drake, Magic Missile does nothing to Mirror Image...ever.)
The group came into the antechamber, figured out there would be fire involved based on the surrounding glyphs (didn't matter as only one character had access to Resist Energy). The group heard Athroxis cast a Haste spell, realized it was "go time" and rolled initiative. Athroxis was third.
Round 1
The rogue went first and tapped the Rage Prophet with a wand of fly before running into the room. The melee beast (rage prophet) ran into the room to find Athroxis flying about 40 feet in the air in the center of the room, he spent the rest of his move angling up toward her.
Athroxis dropped a wall of force on the entrance to the room, then activated fire sheild (set to resist fire damage and do cold damage to attackers), before moving farther away.
The non-spellcrafty people took their turns only to run face first into an invisible wall. Eventually, the Eldritch Archer dropped the wall with a disintegrate, and the rest of the group moved into the room, all but the archer still on the ground. The Bard activated her celestial armor to Fly.
Round 2
The Rogue tapped the Fighter with the wand of fly. The Rage Prophet used his boots of haste and closed for melee, soaking a Flaming Ranseur AoO for high-20s-damage, only to pop a mirror image. Athroxis full-attacked with Combat Expertise (one miss...about 90 damage total), then hosed the rage prophet down with a quickened empowered scorching ray to the tune of high 60-something damage. The Rage Prophet was unconscious and floating back to the ground. (Note: Athroxis's damage if she chose to focus on one character for a whole round was a problem, as anticipated).
The Fighter went through the air to close with Athroxis, soaking a 25 point AoO and popping a mirror image. The Eldritch Archer cast Greater Infernal Healing on the unconscious Rage Prophet (not the best spell, but his rage would have ended in a few rounds and those 8-12 hp were crucial to him staying alive). The Rogue got himself a Fly spell and moved towards Athroxis. Her AoO missed him (good AC on that lil guy). The Bard retreats and heals the Rage Prophet.
Round 3
Rage Prophet stands and heals himself. Rogue flanks Athroxis, misses a few times (Combat Expertise ftw on Athroxis), pops an image, does 27 damage (and takes 20 himself from fire shield). Athroxis casts something defensively, the group rolls TERRIBLY on Spellcrafts, and thus has NO CLUE that she just cast an Empowered Detonate. Athroxis descends a little to get everyone with her detonate. Athroxis hoses down the Fighter this time with an empowered quickened scorching ray.
The Fighter is in position to full attack Athroxis...he pops two images.
(Note: At this point I'm doing some quick mental math and realizing that when the Detonate goes off there's a good chance the Fighter is going down (or close enough to it that hitting her once will activate fire shield and THAT will put him down) and the Rage Prophet will be in the same boat. The Rogue can't do much without flanking, and doing damage isn't the bard's thing. Also, with wind wall cued up as soon as the archer makes himself a threat, Athroxis will use it to make him come close if he wants to attack, and he absolutely would get one-rounded if she can full attack him. She also has a quickened mirror image ready to refresh her popped images...)
The bard attempts to cast silence on Athroxis's Ranseur. She "fails" her saving throw (I was seriously seeing a TPK coming at this point, and this made the fight easier, without auto-ending it, so I decided to grab on to it as a DM and go with it). The Eldritch Archer (who has seeking on his bow and thus ignores mirror images) roughs up Athroxis for about 90 damage.
Round 4
The Rage Prophet heals again (thankfully...soaking an AoO then the detonate would have been the end). The Rogue does a little damage, takes a little damage himself, and is not liking the flame shield at all. Athroxis explodes. Between her fire shield and her fire giant form she takes no damage from the detonate. The Bard and Rogue save (Bard has rogue levels as well) and take no damage due to evasion. The fighter gets plowed and is at about 4 hp. The Rage Prophet saves and is blinking, so he takes only a quarter of the damage. The Eldritch Archer is unaffected as he is too far away. Athroxis uses a move to throw her ranseur away, envelops herself in a fairly tight Wind Wall, and Quickened Empowered Scorching Rays the Bard down to under a quarter of the Bard's health. The fighter steps up and pops both of her remaining mirror images (he would have killed her so much sooner if he could have rolled better vs. the mirror images!) The Bard heals herself. The Eldritch Archer does...something (I think he used a double move to maneuver into a shooting position within the wind wall, but to make sure he didn't take an AoO on his movement).
Round 5
The Rage Prophet moves into position and Vital Strikes. He soaks fire shield damage, leaving him at 5 hp. Athroxis morphs back to human form as she goes unconscious. Then the remembers that he uses a vicious weapon...the d6 comes up as a 5. He's staggered at 0. The PCs don't know why I ask them to stay in initiative. A little bit of healing happens during the rest of this round, but it's minor cure lights and such as the PCs think the combat is over...
Round 6
Contigency Acid Detonate. Rogue and Bard save again and are unharmed. Eldritch Archer is too far away to be hurt. The Rage Prophet is no longer blinking. Even though they both save, half damage is over 23, sending both slightly past negative Constitution score. Each is forced to burn two hero points just to survive.
If this was played as harsh as I could and without bending rules, I think it would have been a TPK. Part of this is due to me rolling fairly well on damage dice, in addition to players rolling to hit EVERY mirror image before really getting any big damage attacks on Athroxis. However, her ability to essentially "one round" PCs, as well as the attrition caused by Fire Shield at CL 15 and her 20' reach in Fire Giant form (along with Combat Reflexes) really took the top off PCs hit points and made them very vulnerable to her Scorching Rays.
If I had simply full attacked and scorching ray'd every round where it was possible (rather than wind wall and detonate being used), I think I would have killed everyone except the Eldritch Archer. Also, a second wall of force might realllllly have screwed the PCs over, so I held off from doing that as well as choosing to NOT recast Mirror Image.
(As a side note: The Eldritch Archer is the DMPC, as we rotate who DMs but keep our characters in the party as DMPCs. If it seems that he should have done more....well he probably should have. But I refuse to have the DMPC be the "hero" when I'm the one DMing. It's just too masturbatory.)
The action economy thing was highly mitigated by turns spent moving, using items to gain Flying, a wall of force, and Athroxis's AoO capacity, quickened spells, and pretty decent fire shield damage to those who hit her. On top of that, with people going down and actions used to heal them, as well as the unconscious people missing turns then having to move again....the action economy difference wasn't the "this is why Solos don't work in 3.5 and Pathfinder" factor that I thought it would be.
Thanks for the battle report. It not only helps illustrate the efficacy of the rebuild, but gives a bit of insight as to what boss battles at this level can look like.
Flying enemy with AC34, what does that remind me off? Oh yes, the Lamia Matriarch from three modules ago. While there are some differences between the two fights, this aspect is similar. Even the mirror image is. And Athroxis has just 50% more hp than Xanesha. Even Reflex and Will saves are the same! And Athroxis lacks SR and natural immunities.
So my first thought is that her defenses may be a bit too low for a group of this level. They did Xanesha 7 levels ago and are now essentially rolling against the same defense.
A magic missile for example would pop four or five images. Add a few arrows, and mirror image is down before the first melee character reaches her.
And readying an action to fire an arrow at her when she casts will be enough to break her concentration most of the time. And if you get her into range of a silence spell, she looses access to most of her spells.
Her offenses are much stronger, but not that powerful. Sure, Scorching Ray is a very good spell and Perfect Spell probably overpowered, but the least bit of fire resistance will nerf it, since each ray is affected by it. So any warning that they're going against a heavy fire user would likely render them immune to her attacks; resist energy gives resistance 30 per ray; normal rays can't reach that and empowered rays are unlikely to beat it - you'd need to roll an average of over 5 on 6d6.
Overall I'd say she is a decent challenge, but only if the party has no protection against fire going when they meet. And depending on your party composition she'll probably die within three rounds.
-Magic Missile doesn't kill mirror image.
-Silence's radius would put the bearer of the spell within Full Attack distance, which, depending on their AC/HP/how much damage they've already taken, could easily be death. If it's a point in space she can evade it, if characters are around her, she can still full attack them if they threaten her. Silence is definitely useful, but it's not the end of the fight by any means.-Resistance to Fire would be good for one attack/spell from her (which could really save someone's bacon!). But as soon as she noticed Fire wasn't doing the trick she would just change the energy type on her spells...though her melee attacks would do 1d6 less per attack.
-Readying an action to fire at her if she casts a spell is a good idea. You'd have to be sure to hit though or you've just wasted your entire turn....it's a pretty big risk against someone with a fairly high AC and Mirror Images likely up (or sitting behind a wall of wind/wall of force). Archers who can hit that reliably might be better off against her just doing as much damage as possible on their turn (since archers are one of the best DPR builds in the game).
Xanesha is a TPK machine if played as intelligently as she should be and without "helping" the PCs out somehow. If you actually play her with a 34 AC (where she should be with Shield, Mage Armor, and Haste) and mirror image most groups of PCs don't stand a chance. That said, to really do her damage she needs to engage the PCs, which at least means they can flank her up and attempt to go to town. This is a vastly different fight due to Athroxis's willingness to stay at range, divide the party, and scorch them from above.
However, if this fight feels similar to Xanesha, that's ok. Xanesha is epically hard at the level you fight her at (IMHO, too hard without DM friendliness). I wanted a challenging fight, not a slaughter for one side or the other.
Thanks for the battle report. It not only helps illustrate the efficacy of the rebuild, but gives a bit of insight as to what boss battles at this level can look like.
You're welcome. I'm glad it's useful.
I like the conversion/rebuild a lot, but I felt it was important to sort of warn people in case anyone wants to use it. Our group certainly could have handled tactics better, but we role play our characters even in combat situations, so perfect tactical responses are rare.
Had the Eldritch Archer not been packing a disintegrate (or some other means of getting through the wall of force), it could have gotten REALLY ugly. That's an important lesson for this level of gameplay though, not something specific to this fight.
Always have access to flight, always have access to disintegrate, always have access to dimension door. Even if it's through items. At mid-to-high levels sometimes it's just a matter of "either you have a way to counter this or you're screwed."
The last campaing I ran that got up to these levels had a dwarven wizard with Disintegrate. He used it dozens of times, and only once on an animate foe.
But that party was oddly composed (archer/glass cannon, dwarven ball-bearing/wizard, monk, paladin, battle cleric, druid), so my ability to judge combats of this caliber and higher is impeded.
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The group came into the antechamber, figured out there would be fire involved based on the surrounding glyphs (didn't matter as only one character had access to Resist Energy). The group heard Athroxis cast a Haste spell, realized it was "go time" and rolled initiative. Athroxis was third.
Stuff in between...
The action economy thing was highly mitigated by turns spent moving, using items to gain Flying, a wall of force, and Athroxis's AoO capacity, quickened spells, and pretty decent fire shield damage to those who hit her. On top of that, with people going down and actions used to heal them, as well as the unconscious people missing turns then having to move again....the action economy difference wasn't the "this is why Solos don't work in 3.5 and Pathfinder" factor that I thought it would be.
I hope your players had a good time with the fight. Sounds pretty epic to me.
I think the action economy difference would have been marginally better for the PCs had they gone into the battle tactically, instead of rushing in like lambs to the slaughter cause they heard her casting spells.
If, instead of rushing in, they had waited til all three melee characters had Fly cast on them and had everyone go in 'at once', they probably would have faired better, as she would have been dealing with all three all at once, opposed to one showing up each round.
Ah well. Hindsight is 20/20.
Might have to steal your build, if you dont mind, when my group reaches this point in the AP.
I hope your players had a good time with the fight. Sounds pretty epic to me.
I think the action economy difference would have been marginally better for the PCs had they gone into the battle tactically, instead of rushing in like lambs to the slaughter cause they heard her casting spells.
If, instead of rushing in, they had waited til all three melee characters had Fly cast on them and had everyone go in 'at once', they probably would have faired better, as she would have been dealing with all three all at once, opposed to one showing up each round.
Ah well. Hindsight is 20/20.
Might have to steal your build, if you dont mind, when my group reaches this point in the AP.
They did have a good time, even though two heroes had to pay the hero point tax to avoid death. It never got "stalematey" like hard fights at this level can. (A huge problem at this level is the "it's either easy or we're totally unprepared to handle this" dilemma.) It was fast and smooth the whole way through, which was cool. I think it was because of the blasting, truthfully. (Nothing slows down combats like crowd control, summons, dominates/charms, invisible guys that just run around, etc.)
The players absolutely could have played more tactically, but they wouldn't have been playing their characters. Especially since the first guy to charge was a Wrathful character (a Rage Prophet with a drinking problem who doesn't even bother to wear armor, just relies on a ring of blinking) and we were in the Halls of Wrath. The bard followed him, as he had just saved her life under Sandpoint only a few short days ago. Also, if they had waited and taken their time she would have also cast Greater Invisibility....and that could have created huge problems as See Invisibility is a self-only spell. It would have taken the Eldritch Archer out of DPR mode for another round to try and glitterdust her, and he was the one best suited to damage her. I dunno, as always, things could have gone a lot of different ways.
Please feel free to take the build and do whatever you want with it.
-I filled her empty second level spell slot with Gust of Wind. In case someone throws down some lame-ass foggy spell.
-I'm not sure if I gave her enough skills (I never really worry about it as they almost never come into play with most of my NPCs that are located in dungeons...sigh). Either way, make it so she has full ranks in Fly, even if that means taking Appraise off her headband and making the associated skill Fly. Her bonus ends up being +27, I think, just to save you some work. She'll need this to Hover and full attack without moving and ascend straight up and other cool-flying-wizard-warrior stuff.
-Tactical Note: If she waits for the PCs against the wall above the entrance they come into the room through, it takes the PCs longer to get within melee range of her. Since it's a DC 20 Fly check to ascend straight up, many characters who wear armor and rely on potions or wands of Fly may not be able to make this check. This would lead to them having to ascend away from her, then come back toward her. Since she spies on the party with her wand, she may actually know enough about how they fight/their composition to know if this positioning is a good idea or not.
-Tactical Note 2: She has resistance to fire as a fire giant, so it makes sense for her to float fairly close to the fire wall that is the ceiling. Any characters coming up to her level will take some ambient fire damage, which could get painful over the course of the fight if the characters do not have resistance to fire.
-Improved Disarm in place of Eschew Materials and Greater Disarm in place of Weapon Specialization reduces her damage by 2 points (not a huge deal) but gives her a really cool thing to try in place of her last iterative attack, or even (if yer an awesome d-bag of a DM and really wanna eff with yer players) on AoOs...which she will get a bunch of in this fight. I wish I had thought to do this before I ran the combat...as knocking weapons out of charging heroes' hands is awesome. Especially 15 feet in a random direction when they're already also probably up in the air a ways. This could really level the action economy even further if your players aren't ready for it.
The last campaing I ran that got up to these levels had a dwarven wizard with Disintegrate. He used it dozens of times, and only once on an animate foe.
But that party was oddly composed (archer/glass cannon, dwarven ball-bearing/wizard, monk, paladin, battle cleric, druid), so my ability to judge combats of this caliber and higher is impeded.
I can't say I've ever played in OR DM'd for a group that wasn't weirdly composed. It would truly be way weirder to me if I had a group sit down at the table playing Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard....heh. So I wouldn't doubt your ability to assess higher level play, since I think all groups are a fustercluck composition-wise by that point.
(Our group, for example, is Rage Prophet [blinking oracle/barbarian with no armor], Arcane Trickster [bard/rogue], Caster Druid always in a diminutive bird form [crowd control, summons, buffing], a bastard sword wielding fighter [with one level in monk for story reasons], a bloodthirsty halfling [twf melee based rogue], and an Eldritch Archer [fighter/wizard/eldritch knight focused on archery].
-Notice the lack of real healing or a real primary arcane caster. We also don't have a true tank.
Trust your judgement!
(ps: Your dwarven wizard was a genius. I think Disintegrate is a fantastic spell and should always be available for use [even as a scroll], but just not used as an attack.]
I love your conversion! Great things is, it is still a level to low for the CR in the book. (but sounds at the right point for your group) When I ran the fight I put her up to level 10 as an eldritch knight, it was quite the fight!
The dwarven ball-bearing had a 16+ Con, and ended up with the second highest HP total in the party. Add to it some caster goodness (a False Life-like effect, a Fire Shield-like effect) and an adamantine dagger, and he was one tough nut to crack! We didn't have a tank for the longest time, until the Paladin joined the group, but that was nearly 9th level by then.
The group I have running through this AP is almost exactly the classical D&D party: An elven wizard, a dwarven melee'e (ranger with a 1 level dip in rogue), a human cleric in heavy armor (with the Healing domain, no less), a half-elven druid (weather domain, caster) and a human bard (whip/rapier disarm specialist, Pathfinder/Indiana Jones style spell selection. After a few levels of play, we've discovered that this party is the A-10 Warthog of parties: they are triple-redundant in nearly everything. Everybody except the wizard can use wands of cure wounds, the druid and the cleric (fire domain) can make things go boom, the druid, cleric, bard and wizard can buff, the ranger, cleric, bard and druid can melee, the bard and wizard have Knowledge checks more than covered, etc etc. A fun group indeed!
I love your conversion! Great things is, it is still a level to low for the CR in the book. (but sounds at the right point for your group) When I ran the fight I put her up to level 10 as an eldritch knight, it was quite the fight!
Thanks! I just really felt like the original version was...not a real challenge and had missed out on a ton of stuff in the conversion to Pathfinder.
I thought about putting her to level 10 EK, but that tempted me too much to trade in her ranseur for a Falchion...I had to stay away so as not to tempt myself.
@TwoWolves: Sounds like a heck of a group. Who does their real damage? Or do the casters blast a lot?
Our group has unreal damage dealing, but not so much great casting aside from the druid (who sounds exactly the same as the druid in your party).
They are when they spend their bonus human feat on the proficiency for it.
@TwoWolves: Sounds like a heck of a group. Who does their real damage? Or do the casters blast a lot?
For the longest time, no one could come close to matching the aforementioned glass cannon of the group, a half-elven fighter/ranger archer. To the point that other party members were donating gold to get his gear up. It was insane how much he could do with the monk basically getting between the archer and the enemy and the wizard and druid doing battlefield control. The paladin was a little despondant about the damage output, so I threw in a girdle of giant strength +4, and he flippin' gave it to the archer!! In his defense, the paladin was played by a guy who has played paladins since 1st ed, and he contantly was trying to give away all his gold instead of getting better gear. And then he decided to take 2 draws from the Deck of Many Things....
For the longest time, no one could come close to matching the aforementioned glass cannon of the group, a half-elven fighter/ranger archer. To the point that other party members were donating gold to get his gear up. It was insane how much he could do with the monk basically getting between the archer and the enemy and the wizard and druid doing battlefield control. The paladin was a little despondant about the damage output, so I threw in a girdle of giant strength +4, and he flippin' gave it to the archer!! In his defense, the paladin was played by a guy who has played paladins since 1st ed, and he contantly was trying to give away all his gold instead of getting better gear. And then he decided to take 2 draws from the Deck of Many Things....
Hahahaha. That's awesome. The deck of many things is like a suicide mission.
In our group the Eldritch Archer usually does the most damage (especially since archers can full attack almost every round). His one weakness is if he is caught without being able to buff, but it happens soooo rarely in this AP (you almost always know when you're going into combat before it happens I've found. Much of the AP is very dungeon-crawly oriented...though the white dragon caught the group unbuffed). Both the fighter and the rage prophet can do a lot of damage when they get to rip off a full attack, however. The rogue can absolutely blenderize certain opponents in the right conditions (he and the fighter took Outflank together....yeesh...get's real messy when they can set up a flank).
A paladin should still wtfpwn faces against evil creatures....moreso if he's an archer paladin, tho!
@godsDMit: Not only that, the guy took the "Rich Parents" trait to get the starting cash for half-plate! He was the one playing the monk in the previous campaign, and the guy must have a fetish for AC or something.
@Sylvanite: The two cards the paladin got? Talons (lose all magic items) and Donjon (he got imprisoned). Talk about a kick in the nads! It was ok though, because I worked an awesome adventure around rescuing him. He was in the vault from Necromancer Games' Demons and Devils adventure, modified for Scarred Lands (Darakeene, the land of grey dwarf necromancers and slavers). Specifically, under a Cornugon, guarding 6 nasty magic items, like a Sphere of Anihilation...
As for the party in this AP, so far the dwarven ranger is the damage dealing machine. Two-weapon style ranger (with a level in rogue) with waraxe and spiked shield and favored enemy goblins and giants and 1d6 sneak attack....
Thanks for the conversion.. That will be needed very soon :)..
One thing I wondered was that she seemed to do more than one AoO pr. round.. Which feat makes her do that?
Feel free to use and modify her to your heart's content. Just be careful with her as I have her statted out right now. If the party isn't ridiculously prepared for her, she could really TPK them. She does A LOT of damage when given the chance, and has some really tricky/mean things she can do to shut people out of the fight (multiple walls of force and wind wall) if they don't have the exact means to bypass these things.
And your players will give you dirty looks when you drop her "post death detonate" after they think they're not in danger of taking more damage. If you think it's cheap to do that to them after they've already won (it actually killed two of my PCs when I did it...they each had to spend their last two hero points to survive) then just have it be fire based and happen at either half or quarter her hit points. However, if it happens while she is still alive and the players don't see it coming (oh how I love contingency spells) it could lead to a TPK if it downs a couple people who are already low.
Also, be sure you're OK with handing your party +4 Mithril Plate. It's a pretty sweet drop.
Combat Reflexes is the feat that gives her multiple AoOs in a round. She can take up to as many AoOs as her Dex modifier.
What an outstanding conversion, Sylvanite, thanks so much for posting this! My group will be coming up to this fight very shortly and I was planning to do my own conversion so this has saved me a bunch of time. Plus, your conversion is better than what I would have come up with. Really well thought out. My group is a party of six too, and you even made it viable to utilize a feat I almost never use (Combat Expertise), at least if she mixes it up in melee.
So glad I found this thread, great work.