Since I was raised with the BECMI rules, I would love to see a return to the 36th-level cap :D , count me in.
I want epic; I'm patient though; don't need it for another 2 years yet.
epic rules would be great. maybe a contest for alternative mythic content is needed.
Is there a functional difference between "epic" and "mythic?" I'm not sure if there's a difference, or if a rose with any other name is yadda yadda.
Is there a functional difference between "epic" and "mythic?" I'm not sure if there's a difference, or if a rose with any other name is yadda yadda.
The short answer is it's same rose. Slightly longer one is that James Jacobs dropped the word Mythic as an alternative to Epic and the jargon took off on these boards.
In my opinion, Epic ought to specifically refers to the rules in the 3.0 Epic Level Handbook and 3PP or fan content or reworking generated for or with it. Mythic content does not exist, but the word implies to me rules content that describe characters and events that are worthy of legend.
Epic by contrast, due mostly to pop culture unrelated to RPGs, is a word that can be summarized as AWESOME+++.
Others doubtlessly have different associations.
As a DM I want it, even if my players don't hit it anytime soon. My current group is 10-12th level. As they progress I'll want to update parts of my game and continue to challenge their characters. So, assuming it's the usual Paizo quality, I'm in line for it.
I want epic rules, but dont mind small steps. A high level book first is probably a good idea.
Is there a functional difference between "epic" and "mythic?" I'm not sure if there's a difference, or if a rose with any other name is yadda yadda.The short answer is it's same rose. Slightly longer one is that James Jacobs dropped the word Mythic as an alternative to Epic and the jargon took off on these boards.
In my opinion, Epic ought to specifically refers to the rules in the 3.0 Epic Level Handbook and 3PP or fan content or reworking generated for or with it. Mythic content does not exist, but the word implies to me rules content that describe characters and events that are worthy of legend.
Epic by contrast, due mostly to pop culture unrelated to RPGs, is a word that can be summarized as AWESOME+++.Others doubtlessly have different associations.
"Epic" is forever tainted. It's not even the rules themselves that I find bothersome, but the way they spammed the word epic over and over and over until it lost all meaning.
I am wary that "Mythic" will be merely a substitution and not a real departure from this approach, so I don't use it. When discussing post-20th rules, I am happy to call them "post-20th" or the more adult-sounding "21st+". I'll let Paizo decide what they're actually called, but I would certainly prefer a thematic title for the rules that does NOT get spammed throughout the ruleset.
Epic content is pretty much the only thing I want at this point.
There is enough other content to last me at decade now.
I could really use some Epic Content (and some Psionics.)
Both those systems are what I enjoy most, and while I really think Paizo's level of intricacy, creative imagination and detail is heads-and-shoulders superior to a nameless market competitor, the lack of epic rules (and psionics) is making it hard for this customer to make the change over to what is obviously a superior designed product.
I'm one of those (apparently rare) gamers that starts the campaign at level 15ish and wants to play into the high-level/epic area. From my perspective, I'm looking at a game that, no matter how cunningly crafted, is simply incomplete. My group just ain't into gritty goblin-whacking and death-by-housecat. The wizard wants to cast that Inflict Volcano spell from the Netheril boxed set and the barbarian wants to eat up an orc horde at Thermopylae.
PLEASE don't make us wait 2 years+ for Epic (and psionic, just throwing it out there) rules!
I'll stop swimming! It's my version of holding my breath!
I really hope the next book after Advanced Race are rules for Epic levels
I think I can not wait two years or even a year
I really hope the next book after Advanced Race are rules for Epic levels
I think I can not wait two years or even a year
I can wait. I want Epic / Mythic (or whatever you want to call it), but I want it done right and done by Paizo. There are some excellent 3PP out there (Open Design is my favorite) but I want it well thought out *and* integrated into the future of the game. If that means waiting a couple of years (or more), so be it. My 2cp.
I certainly wish to see Epic content as well :)
Well, I guess we do need the August 2011 version of this thread.
Heheheh
Well, it is top in the voting in the poll thread. With the "High Level Gamemastery Guide" running a close second ...
I would certainly buy it, but I have to say I don´t need a book that scales to level 312457..... only about as high as you need to be to kill a pantheon or two.
I would certainly buy it, but I have to say I don´t need a book that scales to level 312457..... only about as high as you need to be to kill a pantheon or two.
+1. for what I am concerned was to be published 2 years ago
While I would like to see epic content in Pathfinder, I hope it looks nothing like the old Epic Level Handbook, with never-ending levels and spells that have DCs in the hundreds to cast. I like 4e's approach of wrapping things up at level 30.
I DEFINITELY want one!
I did not like the approach taken in 3rd edition. I thought the Epic Handbook was wanting. I want epic levels but I still want it to make sense. I never liked that an Epic rogue could escape artist check UNDER the slot of a door. Stuff Like that was just silly.
But Rangers being able to track across planes was cool. In the case of the rogue, everything went mystical. I would have liked to see things more in line with the rogue.
Well, thank the gods this thread has been resurrected (or perhaps EPIC RESURRECTED?!)
Yeah, I'll vote again, and I've been keeping tabs on the product schedule thread, and am happy to see that High-Level Content continues to top it.
I will say that I would like less to keep track of in high-level play. I really think some streamlining could be done with regard to modifiers to mechanics (Combat Maneuvers, Bonuses from Feats, Skill Modifiers, etc.) to allow for more playing and less math.
Even as I get into 9th level with my Gestalt solo/one-on-one character, though he is the only one my GM and I have to keep track of, it's starting to slow the action (and more importantly, the story) a little bit.
And not to derail the thread, but how do you folks get character downtime between adventures? The plots just keep unfurling, and time for Leadership, Construction, and Politics seems to be basically non-existent.
Don't get me wrong, I like my character being a mover and shaker in the world, but constant adventure wears on a person after a while, and some downtime would allow important things to happen. Things always feel so urgent that one never gets to enjoy the spoils of victory(ies).
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Nope not keen. The system still breaks down at higher level play going from 1-20. Fix that first, which may require PF 2.0 so we can drop some of the 3.5e baggage that was retained for compatiblity reasons alone.
I fail to see the attraction to playing a character which 50-gazillion hp's and level 223 spells? Currently too many 'win' buttons available at levels 16+, why add more?
My opinion,
S>
I want a epic book too , but i think it would be better to have a level cap , like 40.
Being the proud DM of (among the others) a 40+ level group of adventurers, I say a big YES to epic/mithic rules for Pathfinder (36 level cap would be a nice look back at the old D&D black box, but I wouldn't mind infinite progression as long as things are kept funny for everyone - especially GMs)
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I would LOVE to see Epic Level Pathfinder, especially a look at the statblocks of some of the bigwigs in the Pathfinder Chronicles Setting (like the Whispering Tyrant, Nex, the higher level Runelords...). I do however feel that this time you should cap on the level progression or you risk running into the same problem that old D&D had with epic levels, the fact that certain creatures/characters will never be "high enough" in level, I have a vague recollection of a titan that was statted up in Dragon as a CR 50+ barbarian, when you get to that point it just gets crazy. I'm a fan of capping the levels at around 35 / 36, because that would limit the maximum CR a monster could have to around 40, much like it is now practically limited to 25.
So epic level handbook is my top pick for 2012.
I would like to see some epic level stuff, but done diffrently than the old Epic Level Handbook. For one thing I was not really a fan of the perpetual levelling, all the classes just seemed so genreric, to me, after level 20. There was no new specific abilities to look forward to, like the druid getting an expanded selection of shapes or the monk getting a new trick.
And with the book having to cover, potenially, 50+ levels of game, it just felt very messy and some of the stuff seemed redundant or unneeded. Why exactly is a colossal beetle 30 CR above the Terrasque?
What I would like to see is fixed 10 level progression for all base classes, that way it could be more focused. I think it would work nicely with the class ability system already in place for many of the classes, "just" add a new tier of Rogue talents, bloodline abilites, Hexes etc.
The feats was nice, but a lot of them seemed to replace getting new class abilities.
A progression of monster CR´s from 20-30, maybe even release a separate epic level monster book
The only thing I dont really know how to do is the spell progression,on one hand, it would be clunky to add 4 new spell levels on top of the old spell level progression. But on the other the old epic spell system is not open game content. And that is too bad, because i feel that would be the best way to handle spells after level 20.
But no matter what it would be a massive book, if it is to cover all classes released so far, as well as magic items, traps and monsters and GM advice to build epic level adventures and dungeons.
But I hope Paizo is up for the task :-)
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Since a thread about this topic was locked I will start two new threads one for and one against. Keep it civil otherwise the thread will be locked and lets try to not have that happen again.
I will start the ball rolling. I am in favor of an official product that supports Epic play. I think PF could use one ot round out what I think is missing in the rules and to compete on equal terms with 4E and 3.5.
I vote Yes for epic, mytic, high level - etc. Especially in light of the fact that the Dungeons of Golarion have areas that range from CR15 to CR24
As a Paizo customer, I'm interested!
I want to see Epic/Mythic development and lots and lots of playtesting. (I can wait. No, really, as long as it takes.)
I want to see armies done up as creatures (like Mobs & Swarms), spells not necessarily stronger, but bigger (like Nex/Geb/countryside/black out the sun big).
I want my fighter to "Mythic Charge" through a horde of large earth elementals, knocking pansy CR5s aside as he barrels toward their leader.
I want that leader to absorb that horde into its own body and tower over the city.
I want Jet Li, "Hero", "House of Flying Daggers" action.
I want some spells as free actions, or even a new 'time slot' in which to place a mythic 2nd quickened spell for 3 spells/round. (+8 level metamagic?)
I want warrior-types to get 'quickened' attacks (with a price). (-20 Att.?)
I do want superheroes.
I do want complicated infrastructures (countries/organizations/planets) made play-friendly. I want to tackle famine/war/plagues/catastrophes head on, without needing to quest for a 'fix-it' artifact.
I want a spell named after me. :)
Thank you for letting me spew, JMK
I like a cap level of 100, mortal, immortals, gods and overgods
B-asic (1-4)
E-xpert (5-12)
Com-panion (13-20)
M-ythic (21-36)
I-mmortal (36+)
Cos-mic (higher than that)
T-ranscendant (even higher than that)
O-mnific (No! Dammit, haven't you been listening?! Really, frackin', HIGH)
BEComMICosTO!
Yes!
Did I say that loud enough? YES!!!
The epic and mithic levels will allow my players to continue down the path of demon punching and devil kicking! And me, of course, to continue to plan for evil's sake.
I think there is a possibility that a high-level (mythic-level, epic-level or whatever they choose to call it) book might be announced today during GenCon's "2012: The Future of Paizo and the Pathfinder RPG" seminar. It would certainly be a welcome announcement that could only be bettered by the announcement of a Pathfinder CRPG.
As is probably apparent from the above paragraph, I would welcome a high-level book for the Pathfinder RPG. My current PFRPG campaigns have not yet reached that level, but the book wouldn't be released immediately anyway and I would love to have it well before I need it.
That said, though, I loathed the way high-levels were handled in the Epic Level Handbook. The open-ended nature of level-progression, the breaks with previous progressions with poor inherent in-game justification, as well as the horrible spell-casting system were particularly glaring flaws. I think Paizo can do better - much better, but I don't want to raise my expectations too high, lest I be disappointed later.
This is the rank I propose
Levels
21-40 Epic
41-60 Immortal, God
61-80 Cosmic, Overgod
81-100 Transcendental
100+ Omnific
Bleh. Gaining divinity should be more than a matter of simple killing enough orcs (ie, gaining enough XP / levels).This is the rank I propose
Levels
21-40 Epic
41-60 Immortal, God
61-80 Cosmic, Overgod
81-100 Transcendental
100+ Omnific
If you can kill a god, you probably deserve to be a god ... IMHO.
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If you can kill a god, you probably deserve to be a god ... IMHO.Bleh. Gaining divinity should be more than a matter of simple killing enough orcs (ie, gaining enough XP / levels).This is the rank I propose
Levels
21-40 Epic
41-60 Immortal, God
61-80 Cosmic, Overgod
81-100 Transcendental
100+ Omnific
Except you don't have to kill a god to gain XP. You can kill mooks and you get XP. And I think becoming a god should be more involved that simply killing things that are 5 CR below your level.
Except you don't have to kill a god to gain XP. You can kill mooks and you get XP. And I think becoming a god should be more involved that simply killing things that are 5 CR below your level.If you can kill a god, you probably deserve to be a god ... IMHO.Bleh. Gaining divinity should be more than a matter of simple killing enough orcs (ie, gaining enough XP / levels).This is the rank I propose
Levels
21-40 Epic
41-60 Immortal, God
61-80 Cosmic, Overgod
81-100 Transcendental
100+ Omnific
True but I imagine that there will be steep requirements to actually become a god ... hopefully.
I would like epic/mythic rules. They've already been hinted at least once so far. However one of the things I didn't like about the epic rules of yester system was that it stated out the gods. Gods, even the ascended ones, are beyond the ken of mortals and by giving the actual god a stat block you make him lesser.
Now epic rules used to represent divine avatars are perfectly fine and that pretty much how I treated the write up in Deities & Demigods. Nascent Demon lords i'd be willing to give a pass to because they are close but not there yet and would make a good final villain if there is a 30th, 36th, or 40th level cap.
Also, one of the reasons I would like epic/mythic rules is that once you reach 20th level you get this cool ability of some kind but you don't get much of a chance to use it. I would also like the quality I have become accustomed to with Paizo so waiting a little while would be acceptable.
Side note: Some options for transformational progressions would be much appreciated as well or a adventure featuring the Trial of the Starstone to send the party of wit a bang.
Count me in. After who doesn't want to see how Tar-Baphon defeated the goddess Arazni.
But i have to say that i want also to see APs and/or modules that use these rules.
I'm in favor of this, but I'd like to see more 12-20 products first.
Baby steps, my friends.
I totally agree with this.
Realizing that I'll only be 14 or so at the end of Carrion Crown; and how limited content is after those levels... thoroughly disappointed me.
I wouldn't mind an epic level handbook but I probably will never use it. I didn't use the last one. I would enjoy seeing Paizo's take on it, though.