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Hey everyone! Obviously there are spoilers for some scenarios in this thread, so be forewarned.
I've been having trouble getting people to show up for our weekly AP games, so I've recently begun replacing them with PFS scenarios. My players like to RP quite a bit, and I've been able to keep them quite happy, using Mark Garringer's excellent list of scenarios as a starting point. I went from not being able to muster up enough players for an AP session to having five regular PFS players and about five others who each rarely show up. They're all PFS newbies except one (who's semi-famous around these parts for rushing to buy a Qadira shirt during City of Strangers at last year's Gencon), and many are new to Pathfinder in general.
So I told everyone that if we have enough people next time, I'm going to have her take the lower level half of them and I'll take the higher, and we'll run City of Strangers. However, I haven't played any Shadow Lodge scenarios other than City of Strangers, and I want to know more about the Shadow Lodge, particularly as to how it pertains to some specifics of my players' characters:
After reading the brief description for Requiem for the Red Raven on the Paizo Store, I came to the conclusion that VC Eliza Petulengro is going to be involved in the exposure of a highly ranked traitor in the Society, and I think I know who it is, and the name begins with the letter 'A' (I'm fairly good at guessing plots from little information, so I'm pretty confident of this). I've already planted seeds of this in the lowest level scenarios, and finally in Among the Living, our most recent scenario, Petulengro herself gave them their mission (despite the mistake pegging her as Varisian in the mod, I figured they just got that aspect of her mixed up with the other VC on the reverse page of Seekers of Secrets). Since they were already literally in Oppara coming back from Railford from Decline of Glory, and since she's a 9th-level Wizard, I had Petulengro Teleport in to where they were on the streets in Oppara to assign them the mission. This served to make her sketchy and a nice red herring (or if I'm wrong and she's involved with the treachery somehow, people will see it as foreshadowing).
She reappeared at the end of the scenario to take the Zyphus Stone from the Taldan noble PC (whose sister was at the opera and was killed), and she left a cryptic warning that a division may be afoot in the Society, so beware even your closest friends. As a Diviner, I figured she might have an inkling of what is to come.
This leads us to one character in particular--the Andoran faction Spy Archetype Rogue. He was at every scenario I ran except one, Assault on the Kingdom of the Impossible. We had a Paladin of Shelyn that week, and she insisted on leading with the rose in every encounter, which eventually led to Zamir being pardoned and joining the Pathfinder Society. The Rogue heard about this and was extremely dissatisfied. He wanted someone who oppressed those wizards into such brutal slavery and murdered so many Pathfinders as well as a Venture Captain to suffer for what he had done. So when the group had their hands on Fel Bustrani, he openly stated that he refused to turn in the Zyphus leader to the society, worried that the Decimvirate would pardon Bustrani if he used his archaeological knowledge to locate other old Azlanti sites. In fact, he specifically said "If they denied justice again and let this man walk after what he did, I might as well join the Aspis Consortium!"
Even though it was clear that the Rogue (Wiscrani originally) despised the Consortium and was using them as an example of how much he disliked the decision with Zamir, this combined with Petulengro's warning led the PCs of every faction but Andoran to come together and present evidence to Petulengro about the Rogue's behavior. She told them that "I have not foreseen any treachery on his part in the near future, but it is wise to be always vigilant."
OK, sorry for making you wade through the context--the question is here: What if the Spy Rogue actually decides he wants to join the Shadow Lodge. Do I have options for that? Based on some sweet advice I saw from Doug Miles on ratcheting up paranoia, I sent out a teaser about City of Strangers where I asked "Have any of your allies turned traitor?" and the player of the Rogue e-mailed me that he would be interested in meeting to discuss what would happen if he was independently approached by these people as a potential recruit. I already plan to have the enemy in Part 2 who fights disguised as a comrade to disguise as him (for the group that he isn't playing in, at least--since remember I'm only running City of Strangers if we split into two groups).
I'm guessing I have no options or leeway for him to join the Shadow Lodge, and that if he actually tries to do so, his character is retired early, but I'm hoping I have more slack just in case. If I don't have the slack and I'm afraid he would join, I suppose I can always just not run that scenario so I don't ever expose him to the opportunity.
Thanks for any input guys--as always, you're awesome!
~RE
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OK, sorry for making you wade through the context--the question is here: What if the Spy Rogue actually decides he wants to join the Shadow Lodge. Do I have options for that? Based on some sweet advice I saw from Doug Miles on ratcheting up paranoia, I sent out a teaser about City of Strangers where I asked "Have any of your allies turned traitor?" and the player of the Rogue e-mailed me that he would be interested in meeting to discuss what would happen if he was independently approached by these people as a potential recruit. I already plan to have the enemy in Part 2 who fights disguised as a comrade to disguise as him (for the group that he isn't playing in, at least--since remember I'm only running City of Strangers if we split into two groups).
I'm guessing I have no options or leeway for him to join the Shadow Lodge, and that if he actually tries to do so, his character is retired early, but I'm hoping I have more slack just in case. If I don't have the slack and I'm afraid he would join, I suppose I can always just not run that scenario so I don't ever expose him to the opportunity.
Thanks for any input guys--as always, you're awesome!
~RE
What qualifies someone as a veteran GM?
To answer your question, with almost every BBEG in the Shadow Lodge scenarios I try to convert characters to the Shadow Lodge. If the characters (players, really) would rather be part of the Shadow Lodge, then let them join. That said, we are participating in the Pathfinder Society organized campaign, not the Shadow Lodge organized campaign. If they loyalty to the Pathfinder Society is so weak they choose to join the Shadow Lodge, they're effectively retired and no longer part of the campaign.
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OK, sorry for making you wade through the context--the question is here: What if the Spy Rogue actually decides he wants to join the Shadow Lodge. Do I have options for that? Based on some sweet advice I saw from Doug Miles on ratcheting up paranoia, I sent out a teaser about City of Strangers where I asked "Have any of your allies turned traitor?" and the player of the Rogue e-mailed me that he would be interested in meeting to discuss what would happen if he was independently approached by these people as a potential recruit. I already plan to have the enemy in Part 2 who fights disguised as a comrade to disguise as him (for the group that he isn't playing in, at least--since remember I'm only running City of Strangers if we split into two groups).
I'm guessing I have no options or leeway for him to join the Shadow Lodge, and that if he actually tries to do so, his character is retired early, but I'm hoping I have more slack just in case. If I don't have the slack and I'm afraid he would join, I suppose I can always just not run that scenario so I don't ever expose him to the opportunity.
Thanks for any input guys--as always, you're awesome!
~RE
What qualifies someone as a veteran GM?
To answer your question, with almost every BBEG in the Shadow Lodge scenarios I try to convert characters to the Shadow Lodge. If the characters (players, really) would rather be part of the Shadow Lodge, then let them join. That said, we are participating in the Pathfinder Society organized campaign, not the Shadow Lodge organized campaign. If they loyalty to the Pathfinder Society is so weak they choose to join the Shadow Lodge, they're effectively retired and no longer part of the campaign.
I'd say in this case, I just mean someone enough more veteran than I am such that they are aware of more modules in the Shadow Lodge metaplot than CoS (and how they play out). But that was too much of a mouthful for the thread title.
Thanks for the take on it--all far and wide know the experience of the mighty Kyle Baird, slayer of Pathfinders. It seems from what you have said that my take on it was accurate. Though I would say, the character in question could be easily swayed by the Shadow Lodge if they tilted their recruitment with the right spin--he's loyal to the Pathfinder Society, but if they tried to paint themselves as rebuilding the Pathfinder Society to use the items for good, and bring justice to scoundrels like Zamir, they would probably have him on board. If the Shadow Lodge came across as basically super-evil and sketchy (as when I played CoS Part 1), he'd never join them (the PC in question is actually good-aligned and is fed up with the Decimvirate for not being good and just enough).
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I also use Doug Miles sweet advice on ratcheting up paranoia re Shadowlodge throughout the City of Strangers.
I had one player express his dissatisfaction with the Pathfinder Society, so from that point on, I had Shadow Lodge members recognise and address him by name. He goes to great lengths to deny he has any Shadow Lodge ties, but the other players don't believe him. This week when he didn't turn up for our regular Sunday Pathfinder Society session, the other players mused "he must be off on one of those secret Shadow Lodge missions".
Obviously, to continue playing Pathfinder Society, you're doing missions for the Pathfinder Society - start causing trouble, and someone's going to notice and revoke your membership. You also can't play Evil alignment, and the Shadow Lodge agents we've encountered on our missions have generally been not such nice guys.
You might play Shadow Lodge agents as simply having a different agenda than Pathfinder Society members, and being a fledgeling organisation with limited resources, they've a) had to accept some questionable types to have expanded so quickly and infiltrated the Pathfinder Society throughout so many cities unnoticed; b) don't have the resources to properly screen every new recruit; c) just as the Pathfinder Society attracts some dodgy characters (take a casual look at the characters who play at a typical PFS table), so too would the Shadow Lodge. However, there's an undercurrent of Pathfinders who have grown disillusioned by the Grand Lodge's agenda, and truly believe the Shadow Lodge's goals are a better way forward - no doubt some players may happen to agree.
There are a couple of ways a player could explore his Shadow Lodge loyalties:
- Given that the Shadow Lodge and their agents use questionable methods, maybe the player isn't quite convinced they're the organisation he should be associating himself with? Suggest he use his Pathfinder missions as an information gathering opportunity to discover more about this organisation before deciding whether or not to jump ship.
- then let your player continue his missions for the Pathfinder Society, recording them in his own Pathfinder Chronicle, but reporting these back his Shadow Lodge contacts.
Cheers,
Stephen (DarkWhite)
Pathfinder Society 4-Star GM
Venture-Captain, Australia
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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The Sahdow Lodge has been set up as a group that want to actively use the technology, magic, and knowledge the Pathfinders have gained. The scenarios that have introduced the Shadow Lodge have gone out of their way to explain that they are not evil, at least not any moreso than the Pathfinder Society itself.
So, I'm waiting for the opportunity to deal with a good-aligned Shadow Lodge member, somebody who wants to stop the Aspis Consortium, bring the Pathfinders' repertoire to bear against the Worldwound, or overthrow House Thrune.
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The Sahdow Lodge has been set up as a group that want to actively use the technology, magic, and knowledge the Pathfinders have gained. The scenarios that have introduced the Shadow Lodge have gone out of their way to explain that they are not evil, at least not any moreso than the Pathfinder Society itself.
So, I'm waiting for the opportunity to deal with a good-aligned Shadow Lodge member, somebody who wants to stop the Aspis Consortium, bring the Pathfinders' repertoire to bear against the Worldwound, or overthrow House Thrune.
Such a Shadow Lodge member could have my group's rogue PC on board pretty easily. He really doesn't like Thrune.
I guess the take-home here is that since the Shadow Lodge, puts a bad face forward in these scenarios and sends only despicable members to meet the PCs, my group's rogue won't be willing to jump ship anyway (as he is good-aligned).
Random Aside: I looks forward to using some of the techniques I saw from you running the scenario at Gencon 2010 if we do run CoS part 2. Our part 1 GM wasn't as prepared, so I'm hoping to do better on that part via Doug's advice.