All this talk about how awful Vow of Poverty is, is really making me want to play a VoP monk ;)
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You missed my point.
I don't want to have this discussion. I don't care what arguments you propose, I just don't want it. And sorry, "everybody has a right to suck" isn't a strong argument.
No, I don't agree with your point.
Your argument is that this is a suboptimal class that will require others to accommodate it in order for them the participate in your groups.
I am saying you won't have to, because a monk taking that Vow isn't trying to be a "Big Damn Hero", he's trying to create a challenging character. And the other players will be better equipped than they would normally, thanks to the monk giving out his share.
The party is fine, since any weakness from the monk not having stuff is made up by the rest of the party having the stuff he didn't take.
So what is the problem?
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Any wealth gains will be offset by costs of raising the monk from dead more often than anyone else in the party, buying him potions, and all the other costs he will generate (passage costs 500gp per person? Aw shucks, we have to pool for the monk...).
And the game is about being Big Damn Heroes, not gimps. If I'd want to play a leprous necrophiliac rat-catcher, I would play Warhammer Fantasy, not D&D. If I play D&D, I want to barrage my way thru demon hordes and evil undead knights, preferably without having to worry about how much do I suck or how much does my party suck because of me.
Maybe some sort of magical equipment bonus cap proportional to the innate character bonuses/levels? Then again, that would require rebalancing damn near everything.
Yeah, that's the main problem here... it means rebalancing all the WBL, meaning I'd have to write whole new treasure lists for the AP's I'm running and on top of that trying to find a system which prevents players from rushing their weapon and armor upgrades, so that they have to invest a part of their wealth into other items.
I already have a preliminary table ready which stats out which bonus comes at which level and what the WBL adjustment curve looks like, but as I said, it is pretty preliminary.
Any wealth gains will be offset by costs of raising the monk from dead more often than anyone else in the party, buying him potions, and all the other costs he will generate (passage costs 500gp per person? Aw shucks, we have to pool for the monk...).
Seriously, that is not much of an argument. The monk will work 100% fine against all the minions and stuff without dying. He can leave the BBEG to his 3 or 4 comrades that are tripped out on their extra bling.
Just because he is playing a VoP doesn't mean he has to do stupid stuff (other than selecting the vow :P).
Buff spells work so well on the VoP monk (better than anybody else) precisely because he doesn't have items. "Here fighter, take this +4 Strength Bull Strength please" - "Sorry, got this belt already, spell doesn't stack". Deflection bonus from protection spells don't stack with the ring of proc, greater magic weapon doesn't stack with the +s on the weapon innately, etc.
The proposition is simple: the monk grants his teammates +30% gold, and they in turn provide buffs for him. The casters can easily buy pearls of power to accommodate the monk.
Even with items the buff spells are almost always most powerful on a monk because all flat +s have the biggest impact on a many-attack class like the monk that can focus all those attacks on a single weapon (the only exception is haste, which is about equal for all involved). In the case of a VoP monk this just gets more true.
And you ignored that versatile strike lets the monk easily handle DR without knuckles.
Now I am not arguing that the VoP makes the monk stronger - but he's within 10% or 20% of a "full" monk in a party that plays along with the monk. That is good enough. It doesn't need to be the right choice for every game and every party. But it can work fine, that's what matters.
...
All that discussion still excludes that the monk can have 1 item (and permanent enchantments). If you're not going to provide means for the monk to get enchantments, that's fine - but there'll be ways for him to get an item from loot. No the item doesn't have to be given to him by his master, it can come from loot - provided the monk has some good roleplaying reason why that item is significant to him. Or perhaps it's enough that he likes the colors.
You know that in 2 months some people will post about their positive experiences with Vow of Poverty - and you know that you'll still not let it play at your table. And that is fine. It only needs to work for some people to be an option.
I am glad that the VoP doesn't do replacement buffs. I don't want gamist players to take the vow. (Unlike 3.5 VoP that had way too much play.)
I'm confused. How is the rest of the party getting more gold on average, if they are spending hundreds of gold each encounter on potions or wands they had to give to the monk to make him mediocre enough not to die? And since you have lower HP, and lower saves, it means the party also needs to spend more resources on curing you. That's either more uses of wands or spell slots used on you.
Spells like Bull Strength, Owl's Wisdom, and Magic Weapon only have minutes / level durations. That means you need these cast upon you multiple times a day. And since I'm not dedicating dozens of spell slots just to make you suck, it means I am instead buying a half dozen different extra "wands of make you not suck". Buying a bunch of wands, some of which are second or third level spells is not cheap at lower levels. And at higher levels, each low level wand is giving diminishing returns.
Seriously, as a VoP Monk, do you expect other characters to use the extra wealth to essentially buy you your "gear" and carry it around for you. And before every combat, I have to drag out a handful of different wands to use on you.
And what happens if you got into combat without much warning (which in my experience is about 50% of the time)? Do you expect me and the rest of the party to spend our first few actions using the "wands of make you not suck"? Or do you just want to be unbuffed and suck for 50% of the encounters?
The argument is essentially: "Hi guys! I'm going to play a VoP monk, and I'm not going to be very good- but you guys get my share of the wealth to make up for it! But in order to make sure I survive, I need you guys to spend most of that wealth all on consumables to make me capable of doing anything! Oh you bought all that I required, thanks! Now, I can't carry any of that gear either, so would you mind keeping track of it all and holding onto it for me until I need it? Just make sure you get it out and give it to me when a battle starts, though, or I won't be able to do anything!"
Yeah... not seeing the fun of babysitting a VoP monk...
The VoP monk primarily needs 2 spells to stay in the race: mage armor and greater magic weapon (or fang). All of these are hours per level.
Most of the other buffs that the monk would need are area effect (like haste or good hope), so that is "free".
The VoP monk can live without bull strength so that's fine.
His saves aren't as high without items as they could be - but innately the monk has better saves than pretty much everybody. Reducing his saves to be "only" as much as everybody else... so what? Still plays fine. No extra burden on the party.
At higher levels (13+) the monk spell resistance will obviate the saves against many spells - and at lower levels he already doesn't need to save versus disease and poison.
Nobody says he is great, or easy - but he is okay enough.
Let's look at a sample VoP monk over levels. Assuming 20pt buy and favored class bonus into hit points and human. Additional assumptions are listed in appropriate places, at level 6, 10, 14 and 18 a detailed overview of the monks extras and stats is shown. Assumes the monk picks up a "monk robe" by level 10 and later gets a high level "amulet of mighty fists" by level 18. The stats are not super optimized (at least Intelligence could still be dumped). At high levels various inherent bonuses to stats are included (+2 to strength, dexterity, constitution, wisdom).
Only mage armor and greater magic weapon are assumed to be cast at all levels. These are both hours/level spells and should be a very small impact on party resources.
I think the demonstration shows that the vow of poverty isn't cripplingly bad. Not great, sure, but it can be played - won't cost the rest of the party an arm and a leg.
Str 15 + 2 (racial) + 1 (level 4) + 1 (level 12) + 1 (level 16)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 15 + 1 (level 8)
Cha 7 + 1 (level 20)
- toughness (human)
- deflect arrows (level 1)
- dodge (monk 1)
- combat reflexes (monk 2)
- power attack (level 3)
- shield of swings (level 5)
- mobility (monk 6)
- spring attack (level 7)
- iron will (level 9)
- medusa's wrath (level 10)
- great fortitude (level 11)
- weapon focus (unarmed) (level 13)
- improved critical (monk 14)
- dazzling display (level 15)
- touch of serenity (level 17)
- improved trip (monk 18)
- punishing kick (level 19)
Feats
- +4 armor AC from mage armor
- +1 magic to attacks from greater magic weapon
- uses barkskin qinggong power for +3 natural armor
Extras not included:
- +4 dodge AC with ki point
- +4 shield AC with shield of swings (using mundane quarterstaff = 0gp)
- can take -2 to attacks for +4 damage
HP 57
AC 23; touch 16 flat 20
Fort 7; Ref 7; Will 7Flurry +9/+9/(+9)/+4 (1d8+5)
Currently the AC is good, especially considering that it is upwardly mobile with +4 shield AC and +4 dodge AC as the situation warrants.
The saves are better than most characters at this level.
Attacks are okay, not fantastic - but fine
Normal wealth at level: 16000
Currently: no special item
Ki at level: 8
Assumptions:
- +4 armor AC from mage armor
- +2 magic to attacks from greater magic weapon
- uses barkskin qinggong power for +4 natural armor
Extras not included:
- +4 dodge AC with ki point
- +4 shield AC with shield of swings (using mundane quarterstaff = 0gp)
- can take -2 to attacks for +4 damage
HP 93
AC 27; touch 19 flat 24
Fort 9; Ref 9; Will 12Flurry +14/+14/(+14)/+9/+9 (2d6+6)
Currently the AC is okay, and can be bolstered to respectable heights with +4 shield AC and +4 dodge AC.
The ability to spring attack let's the monk pick and chose his fights better.
In combination with his party and Medusa's Wrath he may end up with +14/+14/+14/+14/(+14)/+9/+9 (2d6+6) on some attacks.
If he needs to beat material based AC (silver or cold-iron) he has to rely on power attacks or versatile strike.
The saves are comparable to most characters at this level.
Attacks are okay, not fantastic - but fine. Considering that other party-wide buffs such as good hope and Inspire Courage would be running, that is okay damage output.
Normal wealth at level: 62000
Currently: monk robe (13000)
Ki at level: 13
Assumptions:
- +4 armor AC from mage armor
- +3 magic to attacks from greater magic weapon
- uses barkskin qinggong power for +5 natural armor
Extras not included:
- +4 dodge AC with ki point
- +4 shield AC with shield of swings (using mundane quarterstaff = 0gp)
- can take -3 to attacks for +6 damage
HP 129
AC 29; touch 20 flat 26
Fort 13; Ref 11; Will 14Flurry +20/+20/(+20)/+15/+15/+10 (2d8+8)
Currently the AC is okay still on par with the "level + 15" AC computation, and can be bolstered to respectable heights with +4 shield AC and +4 dodge AC.
The ability to spring attack let's the monk pick and chose his fights better.
In combination with his party and Medusa's Wrath he may end up with +20/+20/+20/+20/(+20)/+15/+15/+10 (2d8+8) on some attacks.
If he needs to beat material based AC (silver or cold-iron) he has to rely on power attacks or versatile strike.
The saves are just short, but still comparable to most characters at this level, and he's got Spell Resistance 24 which will be relevant in many situations. And he doesn't need to save vs poison or disease.
Attacks are okay, not fantastic - but fine. Considering that other party-wide buffs such as good hope and Inspire Courage would be running, that is okay damage output.
Normal wealth at level: 185,000
Currently: monk robe (13000), +2 manual of strength (52,500)
Ki at level: 17
Assumptions:
- +4 armor AC from mage armor
- +4 magic to attacks from greater magic weapon
- uses barkskin qinggong power for +5 natural armor
Extras not included:
- +4 dodge AC with ki point
- +4 shield AC with shield of swings (using mundane quarterstaff = 0gp)
- can take -4 to attacks for +8 damage
- can reduce attack bonus to AC (defending quality) to gain +4 untyped AC bonus
- can use blood crow strike to attack from safe distance
HP 183
AC 30 (or 34); touch 22 flat 27
Fort 16; Ref 14; Will 18Flurry +27/+27/(+27)/+22/+22/+17/+17/+12 (2d8+10 + holy + flaming + spell-storing)
Currently the AC is weak for the level, 3 lower than the "on par" 33 AC computation, but and can be bolstered to respectable heights with +4 shield AC and +4 dodge AC, and in out-of-combat situations he'll have the defending quality of his amulet active granting him an above-par 34 AC. In combat he can chose where he would like the bonus to go.
The ability to spring attack let's the monk pick and chose his fights better.
In combination with his party and Medusa's Wrath he may end up with +27/+27/+27/+27/(+27)/+22/+22/+17/+17/+12 (2d8+10 + holy + flaming + spell-storing) on some attacks.
If he needs to beat material based AC (silver or cold-iron) he has to rely on power attacks or versatile strike.
The saves are now a bit behind other characters - though not cripplingly far behind, and he's got Spell Resistance 28 which will be relevant in many situations. He doesn't need to save vs poison or disease.
Attacks are still pretty okay, the losses to sheer +s to attack are balanced with the sheer number of attacks, not fantastic - but playable. Considering that other party-wide buffs such as good hope and Inspire Courage would be running, that is okay damage output. Not ideal for certain bosses - but at this level most encounters are based around a horde of lower-CR enemies, which the monk will be able to cope with easily.
Normal wealth at level: 530,000
Currently: holy flaming defending spell-storing amulet of might fists (125,000), +2 manual of strength (52,500), +2 manual of dexterity (52,500), +2 manual of constitution (52,500), +2 tome of wisdom (52,500)
Ki at level: 22
Assumptions:
Lastly, if a wordcaster is allowed, the mage armor can be replaced by force armor; at least for boss fights. This is only 10mins/level but increases the ACs at the respective levels to:
- level 6: AC 24 (+1)
- level 10: AC 29 (+2)
- level 14: AC 32 (+3)
- level 18: AC 34 (or 38) (+4)
1) If 4e can create an easy rules patch for no magic item bonuses, why can't PF? It seems straightforward enough.
2). Only tangentially related to point 1, didn't Trailblazer already demonstrate that magic item pluses aren't needed for equal CR encounters? All the presence of +X magic items does is necessitate CR encounters greater than average character level as levels increase.
Regarding #2 - yes, it did.
How do you work in shield of swings (level 5)? It is for two-handed weapon wielders, not for monks, or?
@PeteZero:
As the detailed points show, the monk can wield a (free) quarterstaff to gain benefit from Shield of Swings.
Unless you want to play a gearless monk that can stand right alongside his companions without needing an assortment of jangling magical gear, like some barehanded martial artists in popculture and legend.To different degrees, a fighter, monk, and wizard (with spellbook) are all going to suffer without any gear. When you're playing a game where people can teleport, raised the dead, and survive multiple bites from a dragon, you're not playing the sort of game where a guy with no equipment can keep up compared to the plate armor warrior and the master wizard. There's a reason why "I have no equipment" martial arts movies have the protagonist fighting (1) other martial artists, (2) mooks with standard weapons. They don't fight dragons. They don't fight balor-type demons. If you want a game where the "I don't have equipment" guy is an up-to-par character, you need to either change the game so that nobody has tons of gear (like Exalted, which is an anime-style high-fantasy martial arts game where a starting character can punch-out a T-rex), or play a low-level game where gear isn't as important.
"My character is a badass even though he doesn't have any equipment" is a paradigm-changing statement as much as "my character is a badass even though he doesn't gain levels" is a paradigm-changing statement. You can create campaigns...
So I guess this means we won't be seeing permanent spells and magical tattoos as a way around the no gear problem
APG is a fantastic book as far as balance is concerned. The only whoopsie there was the Selective Spell, and it was errated rather promptly.
Eh. I mean, I love that book, but has his bad moments. Both for "too high" (persistent perfected flash to stone, rod of dazing spells) and "too low" (one-handed fighter, cockatrice strike - post errata too...).
Don't get me wrong - APG is great. But has its bad moments.
Nothing comparable to the two things of UM. Still..
Removed some posts and their replies. There is nothing funny about rape—please don't use the term mockingly.
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Removed some posts and their replies. There is nothing funny about rape—please don't use the term mockingly.
I actually agree with you 100%, which is why my post didn't have anything about rape in it. But it got deleted anyway. Troll: *RAWR* was my way of avoiding the topic.
There's been a whole lot of moderation going on lately...[/random observation]
Let's look at a sample VoP monk over levels.I saw Deflect Arrows at level 1 and didn't bother to read more. Sorry! :)
Awww :( - I know the demonstration isn't optimized to the fullest; it should just show that the character works without pulling some weird tricks. Nevermind then.
Cripes, I don't even want to know how that came into the thread.
So I guess this means we won't be seeing permanent spells and magical tattoos as a way around the no gear problemTattoos would have been great thematically.
Tattoos are expensive, especially if they grant powers
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Tattoos are expensive, especially if they grant powersCripes, I don't even want to know how that came into the thread.
So I guess this means we won't be seeing permanent spells and magical tattoos as a way around the no gear problemTattoos would have been great thematically.
Divinely granted from a pool of options according to level/achievement.
I like how this thread went back to VoP bashing so quickly after the first thread was locked :)
I've got no real problem with it, myself. I might play one next semester, but still I understand why some people have a problem with it. I like the "divine tattoo" idea that (I think) TheForgotten suggested.
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I'm agreeing with Loremaster 100%
I know that 95% of you are about min-maxing and "not sucking" ... ** (see note)
But I come from a ROLE PLAYING background. I have played all sorts of weird and wonderful characters.
The whole point of VoP is it is there if you want to use it ...
Please allow me to quote from Ultimate Magic, Page 8
The new options presented in this book are intended to be a toolbox, not a straitjacket.
How amazing is that ...
If you don't want to have VoP in game ... don't use it.
If you want to add another level of difficulty into the game, and allow players to actually "be" roleplayers and not min-maxing killing machines able to walk through demon hordes without working up a sweat (paraphrased from an earlier post) allow the Vows in game, if not, don't use them.
And the chances are unless you have a pure role playing group, they won't take Vows as they are about "not sucking", because having fun out of combat isn't fun at all, is it ??
** Oh, did I make a generalisation there ... imagine that ... my bad
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I'm agreeing with Loremaster 100%
I know that 95% of you are about min-maxing and "not sucking" ... ** (see note)
But I come from a ROLE PLAYING background. I have played all sorts of weird and wonderful characters.
The whole point of VoP is it is there if you want to use it ...
Please allow me to quote from Ultimate Magic, Page 8
The new options presented in this book are intended to be a toolbox, not a straitjacket.
How amazing is that ...
If you don't want to have VoP in game ... don't use it.
If you want to add another level of difficulty into the game, and allow players to actually "be" roleplayers and not min-maxing killing machines able to walk through demon hordes without working up a sweat (paraphrased from an earlier post) allow the Vows in game, if not, don't use them.
And the chances are unless you have a pure role playing group, they won't take Vows as they are about "not sucking", because having fun out of combat isn't fun at all, is it ??
** Oh, did I make a generalisation there ... imagine that ... my bad
I'm playing RPG's for some 20 years. I've played some 50 systems and settings. Currently I have active characters in Werewolf, Vampire, Call of Cthulhu, Warhammer FRP, Scion and one local RPG nobody heard of. I think I've played some 100 characters across my career. From ex-nazi werewolves to teenage weather wizards and everything in-between.
I come from a ROLE PLAYING background. And if VoP in its current text goes PFS legal, and I get to sit at one table with someone playing one, I'll groan loudly and write nerd-raged posts here.
I'm agreeing with Loremaster 100%
I know that 95% of you are about min-maxing and "not sucking" ... ** (see note)
But I come from a ROLE PLAYING background. I have played all sorts of weird and wonderful characters.
No offense, you're creating a false dichotomy between role playing and "not sucking"; it is not a zero-sum game, you can be bad a$$, flavorful,and role play all at the same time.
I have personal experience with the BoED's VoP and the Pathfinder monk. My second character after we switched to Pathfinder was a monk who was cursed so that all of his material possessions (including cloths) rotted away nearly instantly. To make the concept work, we gave him the VoP bonuses from 3.5.
I was the most unique/interesting character at the table, I personally role-played my way through uniting two elven kingdoms to prevent a human invasion, made peace with some centaurs, and various other role-playing activities... and I was THE most optimized character at the table (other players were new to the system).
This new VoP adds no new flavor that didn't exist before, PLUS it makes you suck. Big fan of Paizo overall, not so much here.
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Made a thread for an idea to give a VoP monk here. I figure its still kinda a DM fiat thing but it does keep the value of the monks item low while still providing the benefits they need to be more effective.
I'm agreeing with Loremaster 100%
I know that 95% of you are about min-maxing and "not sucking" ... ** (see note)
But I come from a ROLE PLAYING background. I have played all sorts of weird and wonderful characters.
No offense, you're creating a false dichotomy between role playing and "not sucking"; it is not a zero-sum game, you can be bad a$$, flavorful,and role play all at the same time.
I have personal experience with the BoED's VoP and the Pathfinder monk. My second character after we switched to Pathfinder was a monk who was cursed so that all of his material possessions (including cloths) rotted away nearly instantly. To make the concept work, we gave him the VoP bonuses from 3.5.
I was the most unique/interesting character at the table, I personally role-played my way through uniting two elven kingdoms to prevent a human invasion, made peace with some centaurs, and various other role-playing activities... and I was THE most optimized character at the table (other players were new to the system).
This new VoP adds no new flavor that didn't exist before, PLUS it makes you suck. Big fan of Paizo overall, not so much here.
Yep, same here too. Something that irks me so much about the people who say they are "Roleplayers" are that apparently they can only roleplay a character who stabs himself with a knife in the face.. cause its roleplaying or something.
For example if someone wanted to play a spellless wizard. People who call themselves "Roleplayers" would do exactly that. Make a wizard and give him 9 int. While a true roleplayer would make something like a rogue and play him like a wizard, while possibly doing things to make mundane fireballs and the like.
Flaring Spell (Metamagic)
Benefit: Fire & Electricity spells make creatures -1 attack for rounds equal to spell level (basically) for +1 spell level slot.
That is what I think is a typical example of the balance in the book. I'd argue that it wouldn't see too much use at +0 spell level slot.
Gotta aim for the line, and try not going over. Can't go nowhere near the line to make sure you don't go over, though.
Well, if you choose to live like a beggar and ask the world to give you something in return, you'd probably get a good laugh in the first place. The real alternative to magic item heavy system would be a system of alternative benefits for everyone. The vows aren't really anything like that and honestly shouldn't have been IMO. If there was something that the vows should have done was to allowing the monk to better resist the temptation the monk tries to avoid, like the Vow of celibacy giving a bonus to resist charm effects + the extra ki points.
Listen I literally invented the ROLE-PLAYING background when I went back in time and helped Gygax CREATE THE GAME and around then I also came up with the idea of RANDOMLY CAPITALIZING THINGS so don't tell me who has the best appeal to AUTHORITY.
Option 3: a vote with decent effects is designed. Which ruins ZERO things in the RP deparment, but improves gaming experience for other people.
My only real problem with things such as vows of poverty granting special or unique benefits (and this applies to such things as tattoos as well) is that they can't be taken away. I've only done such once to a party, but I have an utter hatred of effects to replace magic items being innate. In my view, they should be weaker than being equipped with magic items.
Now, do I agree that the Vow of Poverty was a bit...underwhelming? Yes. But I can fix that. I've got a few vague ideas that I'll flesh out when I have a player want to play one. But...I will never buy a book that decides to replace magic items with mystical inherent modifiers. The way magic works in Pathfinder is the entire point of why I play it in the first place. If I want something with less to no equipment, I'll play Anima or Exalted.
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Option 1 (Before ultimate magic): Play a vow of poverty character. Get nothing for it. Suck.
Option 2 (Post ultimate magic): Play a vow of poverty monk, get something for it. Suck less.
What am I missing?
Option 1 (before ultimate magic): Your impoverished character who sucks accidentally picks up an item worth 100 gp. He loses nothing.
Option 2 (post ultimate magic): Your impoverished character who supposedly sucks slightly less accidentally picks up an item worth 100 gp. He loses all of his ki (including that not from vow of poverty) until someone casts an atonement spell on him.
Option 3 : Your example is ridiculous.
You get an extra ki point every other level, which does actually matter.
You can have one super uber item.
You can take potions or have spells cast on you that will actually work to full effect since you aren't already wearing bonus item.
You can use permanent items such as tombs, or presumably wear magic tattoos, etc...
Mountain created out of a molehill, as will be shown when people start playing the class.
Option 3 : Your example is ridiculous.
You get an extra ki point every other level, which does actually matter.
You can have one super uber item.
You can take potions or have spells cast on you that will actually work to full effect since you aren't already wearing bonus item.
You can use permanent items such as tombs, or presumably wear magic tattoos, etc...
Mountain created out of a molehill, as will be shown when people start playing the class.
VOP: Five of these items must be of plain and simple make, though one can be of some value (often an heirloom of great personal significance to the monk).
Note the emphasis, what your saying is, you would take this feat for the flavor and then break all intended flavor? Or have the DM cater to creating powerful family heirlooms that are still only kinda valuable but show up right as appropriate level dictates. Yeah that's believable.
Magic tattoos are house rules and can't be counted, I could house rules the monk keeps his items with this vow, doesn't mean it fixes it.
tombs are expensive later game items, even if you grab the cheaper ones the don't stack with the more expensive ones.
Potions and spells? Yes lets waste other players actions in combat to make you suck less. /sarcasm
Option 3 : Your example is ridiculous.
You get an extra ki point every other level, which does actually matter.
You can have one super uber item.
You can take potions or have spells cast on you that will actually work to full effect since you aren't already wearing bonus item.
You can use permanent items such as tombs, or presumably wear magic tattoos, etc...
Mountain created out of a molehill, as will be shown when people start playing the class.
VOP: Five of these items must be of plain and simple make, though one can be of some value (often an heirloom of great personal significance to the monk).
Note the emphasis, what your saying is, you would take this feat for the flavor and then break all intended flavor? Or have the DM cater to creating powerful family heirlooms that are still only kinda valuable but show up right as appropriate level dictates. Yeah that's believable.
Magic tattoos are house rules and can't be counted, I could house rules the monk keeps his items with this vow, doesn't mean it fixes it.
tombs are expensive later game items, even if you grab the cheaper ones the don't stack with the more expensive ones.
Potions and spells? Yes lets waste other players actions in combat to make you suck less. /sarcasm
For ultimate cheese, take a level of wizard or sorcerer (or eldritch heritage) to get a bonded item. Have that bonded item be your one special item. Now you can craft it into something uber with all your share of the party treasure. Rawr!
And just because tone does not carry well on online posts, yes I am being deliberately facetious.
with all your share of the party treasure.
LOL
with all your share of the party treasure.LOL
And get your party cleric to cast atonement every time you finish crafting! Rawr!
I did say I was being deliberately facetious. =p
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Option 3 : Your example is ridiculous.
You get an extra ki point every other level, which does actually matter.
You can have one super uber item.
You can take potions or have spells cast on you that will actually work to full effect since you aren't already wearing bonus item.
You can use permanent items such as tombs, or presumably wear magic tattoos, etc...
Mountain created out of a molehill, as will be shown when people start playing the class.
VOP: Five of these items must be of plain and simple make, though one can be of some value (often an heirloom of great personal significance to the monk).
Note the emphasis, what your saying is, you would take this feat for the flavor and then break all intended flavor? Or have the DM cater to creating powerful family heirlooms that are still only kinda valuable but show up right as appropriate level dictates. Yeah that's believable.
Magic tattoos are house rules and can't be counted, I could house rules the monk keeps his items with this vow, doesn't mean it fixes it.
tombs are expensive later game items, even if you grab the cheaper ones the don't stack with the more expensive ones.
Potions and spells? Yes lets waste other players actions in combat to make you suck less. /sarcasm
Yes, some value. As in a significant or exceptional value.
"That's some pig" means "That is an exceptional pig", am I right?
If one were to find an exceptional item during the course of adventuring, I would think that item would be able to qualify. And if you are following anywhere close to WBL, it won't really have any significant effect until 4th or 5th level in any game.
The Shoanti would like to have a word with you about the tattoos.
Also, since I don't keep the money, I could be giving my gold to other party members in exchange for low level buffs of one kind or another. What else are you using those 1st level spots for later in the game?
It's an option. Options are good.