Those who start abusing their children come from somewhere, just like alcoholics do. There isn't a child abuser or alcoholic alive who would say that "Yeah, I sat down one day and decided that's what I wanted to be." What they do claim is that circumstances and others pushed them down the path. "My boss put so much work on me", "I had to drink, there was so much representative work", "My child willfully disrespected my authority", it's all bread and butter. The truth, "I used it as an easy way out of stressful situations, and then I got used to doing so, and I found that I needed to do more to get where I wanted to be", is invisible in the discussions about it.
It is not the end of the world if a child gets hurt, as long as there is no danger to them. However, when a parent willingly causes pain on the child, the trust that existed between them generally disappears. Especially if we're talking about very young children, since they do not have cause and effect down pat. They perceive things happening at random to them most of the time, and one of those things is that mom or dad hurt me. You also give the child a very good reason not to be honest with you - you might hurt them for things you don't like.
And if we're going to discuss the societal effects of spanking, I would say that the most likely consequence is a mass of people who no longer respond to non-violent influences... which incidentally explains why conservative politics involve putting a large percentage of the population in jail, no? After all, there is an discipline option at the state's disposal that they live in some amount of fear of that can come out.
Right, I've tried to not respond to this, but I'm going to have to say something.
When I was spanked, I never 'lost trust' in my parents. I knew they loved me, even as a young child, as they cared for me, fed me, loved me, played with me and even went so far as to spend an hour every night reading to me, even after working a 6-day 58-hour week, both of them.
I got my first 'spanking' at around age 5. I'd gotten till the count of 3 before that, and with training, yes you're supposed to train your children as well as love them, it helps later in life, ask your own parents. I'd stolen a chocolate bar from the local store and my grand-mother, who had been looking after me, had been so horrified she'd paid for the shopping, hustled me out to the car and gone home ... and left her shopping behind. As a pensioner, she had little money to spend, and when she went back, the shopping had been taken by another family (score one for the bludgers once again!).
No food, and that was a week's worth of shopping. Dad gave me an almighty smack on the arse for that and sent me to bed with no food at the middle of the day. Sometime in the night, I woke up and was hungry, went in and apologised to my father. He hugged me, thanked me and asked if I had thought about why stealing was bad. He discussed with me that because of what I had done, somebody else had stolen all of my grandparent's food, and now they would be hungry for the rest of the week (naturally, they weren't, parents bought them more food, but as a little boy this didn't occur to me, as I had been brought up to see money as something you never wasted). I was horrified and burst into tears, offered to give them all the money I had saved up (in a He-Man plastic Bust piggy-bank, no less, all in 1 and 2 cent coins .... god they hated me at the bank when I went in to bank all those coins) to pay for the food.
I was much older, around 12, when I earned my first (edit: and last, I might add) real 'disciple' lesson. Trying to fit in with the 'cool crowd' (whom treated me like crap because I was fat and too 'moral' for them), I did what they dared me to and stole a packet of chips from the local tuck-shop. Mother overheard me as we were laughing back at my place (and they were playing my computer games .... jesus I was a dumb kid, now that I think about it) and she called up their parents, told them what had happened, and in about 5 minutes all the parents that could came over, grabbed their kids, yelled at them for being little thieving bastards and dragged them home. I was mortified, and when my mother told me to take the chips back, pay for them and apologise, I did so. When my father came home, he was furious, and I don't blame him. I received three blows with the strap, to a boy of 12 not really much of a blow, just three sharp stinging moments, and the tears and shame I felt was much worse. I'd eroded all the trust my father, that guy I looked up to and wanted to be, in me with one stupid action. I'd completed humiliated myself in front of all my 'friends'. I'd made myself a thief, an untrustworthy person, in the eyes of the owner of the tuck-shop, whom had always been friendly and happy to serve me. More than the strap, it was the fact I had disappointed so many people with one thoughtless action that brought me distress that day.
You go on and on about how the parents are 'destroying the trust of their child'. I see it as 'this far and no farther', the very absolute level of disrespect and lack of control that a parent is will tolerate. Pain is quite a shock to a child, and while I am perfectly fine with a slap to the bum, or in the rare case such as what I went through, a single strap or two (and with the broad-side of the belt, not the buckle, not the edge, you bastards) is borderline, but still within limits.
I see someone punch, kick or otherwise go out of their way to harm a child, I will go over and immediately confront them, as has my father, because a child must be able to see the parent as not only an authority figure, but a protective, loving one more-over. I've seen the 'softly softly' parents come in, child screaming and crying and they ignore it, driving away and/or aggravating other people no matter where they go and then get mortally offended when they are asked to 'take care of their child' because people should not be so rude as to interfere. Your child is misbehaving, but it's not everyone else's burden to deal with it, it's yours, your child, your responsibility, your labour of love. If the child(ren) cannot yet function in society to that level, get a baby-sitter or stay home with them. If that's too restrictive ... just remember your rights, and the rights of your child, do not have precedence over the scores of people whom will be inconvenienced by your child(rens') antics.
And before I get attacked for being 'cruel' and 'damaged', I have stood up to the result of the 'softly softly' approach, youths who come from homes where the parents would not touch or restrain their children, who ironicly out-number the youths who really do deserve a hand up, the ones who have been in real abusive homes, where the parents constantly drank and/or did drugs, neglected their children and left them to starve or turn to crime to feed themselves and their burgeoning habits.
Wanna-be gang-bangers wandering around with switch-blades and knuckle-dusters, high as a kite on whatever the local outlaw biker gang is peddling and acting like sadistic bullies. I've been knifed three times, had an arm and four ribs broken, three teeth shattered and most of the remainder chipped, one leg run over by a small car and being hit so hard by another that I dented the bonnet and completely shattered the wind-screen. I've been hit with baseball bats, cricket-bats, star-pickets, brass-knucles and garbage bins. I've sweated through 10 different blood-tests, waiting for my number to come up with an STD picked up from dragging these gutless maggots off people who did nothing more than not grant the double-handed flange-flickers instant gratification like they get at home. In 14 years in the work-force, I'm proud to say I've never thrown the first punch, never hit a woman or a child, only gotten one speeding ticket, never been on the dole nor had the inclination to sit back and let others work for me. I've taken in and raised, rehabilitated and released a fruit bat, five grey kangaroos, several blue-tongue lizards and recently a female cat that, a month after I rescued this 6-7 month old kitten with her ribs showing, gave birth in my lap to four of the most adorable little kittens I've ever seen, whom now are devouring the last of my pork crackling, much to my annoyance.
So tell me, Sissyl, how my parents ruined me, and destroyed my trust in them. I'd like to hear how that happened, since you are obviously an expert in the field, naturally.
So tell me, Sissyl, how my parents ruined me, and destroyed my trust in them. I'd like to hear how that happened, since you are obviously an expert in the field, naturally.
Come on, fess up. You're a serial killer, right?
So tell me, Sissyl, how my parents ruined me, and destroyed my trust in them. I'd like to hear how that happened, since you are obviously an expert in the field, naturally.Come on, fess up. You're a serial killer, right?
Only in Fable ... and only for the Horns. You're talking to the chronicly good-aligned guy here. I just ... can't be the bad guy. I don't get invited to the Evil Campaign table as a Player, but I do get pumped mercilessly to create enemies for them.
Fear my Magnificent Seven Paladins, you bastiges!
This thread has received enough warnings. Locking.