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One is the Chief Creative Officer for DC.
The other is the Chief Creative Officer for Marvel.
One oversees one of the greatest collections of literary characters ever created. The other oversees Marvel.
Quesada's got about 11 year on Johns, so he's got more experience. However, Johns has got youth and vitality on his side, so that evens up.
Quesada worked on the Marvel Knights line, which was cool. And he's not afraid to admit he worked on a comic called Ninjak. That's some stones there.
Johns has way more impressive stuff on his resume. Plus, he got his career started by calling up Richard Donner's office and not hanging up until he got to talk to Donner. Then he convinced the dude to give him a job. That's some even bigger stones there.
In the end, I'm going to decide this the old fashioned way.
Just...gimme a minute.
....
....
....
There we go. Based on several coin tosses and my own personal desires, Johns wins out over Quesada!
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Hmmm... Is the contest who can drive their respective properties into an early grave sooner?
In that case, Johns is definitely winning.
OMD, OMIT... Quesidia wins
Remember kids, smoking is bad, divorce is bad, but lots of casual sex and selling your soul to the devil is fine!
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Hmmm... Is the contest who can drive their respective properties into an early grave sooner?
Naah, that was going to happen either way, methinks. The industry giants just aren't what they once were.
This is just a straight up, who can win in a fight, question. But, I can see that some of you have doubts. So, let me once again consult an expert....
shakes Magic 8-ball
Nope, Geoff Johns still wins.
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In a fist fight? Joe Q has it looks like 50-60 pounds on him or more. I am thinkning the Butterbean padded tummy effect will pull him through for the win.
Yeah, but Johns has speed on his side. Plus, without as much weight slowing him down, he'll probably last longer.
Not to mention....
....picks a name out of a hat......
Geoff wins again!!!!
Weird, how that keeps happening...
See, now here I was trying to be logical and actually (shockingly) picked a Marvel option over their DC opponent.
While I'd never miss an opportunity to see a Quesada beat-down because of OMD/OMIT, DC characters suck, so Johns loses.
End of story.
While I'd never miss an opportunity to see a Quesada beat-down because of OMD/OMIT, DC characters suck, so Johns loses.
End of story.
The fact that Johns brought back Hal jordan and Barry Allen is enough for me to vote Quesada. That and I think that the Avengers particularly New, Secret and Avengers Academy have been some of the best avengers tales in a long time (Under Bendis, Brubaker and Christos Gage).
Captain America (Under Ed Brubaker) has been the best that it's been in a long time.
Thor (Under JM Strzynski and now Matt Fraction)has been damn good.
Iron Man (under Matt Fraction) has been the best it's been in a long time.
Fantastic Four under millar was kinda of ass, but there was a Mark Waid run earlier on that was ace and the Hickman run is actually really damn good.
Speaking of Hickman, Secret Warriors might be the best marvel book that no one is reading as well as SHEILD.
While I'm not a huge fan of Mark Millar (Kick-Ass, Nemesis and Superior) other creator owned properties at marvel most notably Brubaker's Criminal and Incognito are pretty solid as well as is Bendis and Oeming Powers.
Wasnt a big fan of Civil War (mostly becasue of Millar) but Secret Invasion was fun and lets not even talk about Marvel's Cosmic titles like Nova, gaurdians of the galaxy and thier assorted events like Annihilation, Annihilation: Conquest, Realm of Kings and Thanos Imparative.
This is just a fraction of the stuff that happened under Quesada as EIC of Marvel. DC may have the characters, but Marvel has the writers and the stories. To be fair though the Sinestro Corps War, The Leigon of Three Worlds and the New Krytpon Arc of Superman as well as All Star Superman and Batman and Robin have been REALLY great. Except that Johns really had nothing to do with the last two.
I just have to say also, I've met them both (Quesada this last year at NYCC and Johns the year prior) and Johns comes across as really down to earth and a hell of a nice guy. Quesada seems a little less so and a bit distant and douchey.
I prefer Marvel and Quesada's books but if I had to sit and talk comics with either one of them it would probably be Johns...
Is Quesada still with Marvel?
Hm....Quesada has done many good things at Marvel, but is also guilty of many sins.
Johns has done many good things at DC, but he apparently also brought back Barry Allen, Mr. Irrelevant 2010.
For that sin, I have to give victory to Quesada, who at least managed to figure out that he should step down as editor-in-chief. Though there is still much harm he could do in his current role.
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See, now here I was trying to be logical and actually (shockingly) picked a Marvel option over their DC opponent.
I am, of course, being the soul of logic whenever I determine the winner of this battle....
throws a dart at the board
Ha! Johns wins agai...wait...what does that read....
L
I
E
F....!
AAAAHHHH!! Who the hell put HIS name on the board?!?
DC characters suckWow, it must suck to live in such a terrible sounding alternate Earth. Bummer dude.
Not from where I stand. Reading about characters with down to earth origins and powers beats reading about aliens or mythological beings trying to "fit in" as humans.
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Quesada vs. Johns doesn't feel right, thematically.
It should be Quesada vs. Didio (evil honcho who loves killing teen characters vs. evil honcho who loves killing teen characters) and Geoff Johns vs. Jim Lee (overhyped flavor of the month vs. overhyped flavor of last month).
Paul Levitz and Jim Shooter (ex-honchos with more talent than any of the above, dismissed-with-predjudice and now back to being peons) can sit on the sidelines and do a Statler & Waldorf blow-by-blow analysis, with just a smidge of Tom Servo & Crow T. Robot.
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DC characters suckWow, it must suck to live in such a terrible sounding alternate Earth. Bummer dude.
Rambling aside
They had a beautiful oportunity to take their lesser known characters with the DCAU and squandered it. Why did I become a J'onn J'onzz (and M'gann M'orrs) fan? Because of the DCAU making John such an interesting character. Same thing for John Stewart, Shiara and Mahri. I'd not really heard of either John, or Vixen, Vigilante, Shining Knight, or Hawkgirl prior to the DCAU, but enjoyed the characters incredibly. Sure Shiara and John Stewart were 'tokens' to swap up the palate of the 'big seven', but you know what? They became some of my favourite characters. I was sad to see what the current Hawkman/Hawkwoman are. I wanted to see my (naturally) winged Thanagarans from the cartoon. I wanted to see this awesome military guy who makes the hard decisions. Instead I got Hal Jordan. I enjoyed Morrison's run with Vixen, because she was this strong capable woman. I enjoy Wally, but now he's in limbo as Johns plays with Barry, who should have stayed dead. (And let's not even mention Ryan Choi)
Marvel's made some, ahem, questionable decisions. I was initially against James coming back from the dead, but have grown to respect the decision (Steve's still Cap though) The entire Retcon on Bobbie made me angry, and I don't want to see Eric come back (I loved Thunderstrike, but he died a hero's death and his return would cheepen it.) Marvel hasn't (yet) had a juggernaut like the DCAU was, but if Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes (and SuperHero Squad, for the younger generation) last a few seasons, hopefully they'll learn from DC's mistakes and spin off some of their C list characters from these shows.
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I believe the true victor of this battle will be determined by the findings of the resulting lawsuit after Quesada annd Johns sue and countersue each other for injuries sustained during what is sure to boil down to a slapboxing match. That said and without any knowledge of the details of the suit, I predict the case will eventually be settled out of court favoring Quesada based solely on Disney's resources. DC's lawyers have a storied history of ruthless and impressive wins, but Time Warner can't match the spending power Disney can muster. If The House of Mouse has to borrow from Scrooge McDuck's money vault, they'll draw Time Warner into a legal war of attrition they won't be able to win without significant losses purely out of spite.
Of course, the real losers will be us after both companies raise the price of their comics to cover the legal fees, and we owe it all to Aberzombie for orchestrating this whole plot to pit Quesada and Johns against each other in mortal combat. Thanks alot, jerk.
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Quesada vs. Johns doesn't feel right, thematically.
It should be Quesada vs. Didio (evil honcho who loves killing teen characters vs. evil honcho who loves killing teen characters) and Geoff Johns vs. Jim Lee (overhyped flavor of the month vs. overhyped flavor of last month).
Paul Levitz and Jim Shooter (ex-honchos with more talent than any of the above, dismissed-with-predjudice and now back to being peons) can sit on the sidelines and do a Statler & Waldorf blow-by-blow analysis, with just a smidge of Tom Servo & Crow T. Robot.
Johns and Quesada share the same working title within their respective companies (see OP). That's why I picked them to go toe to toe. Plus, I never really liked Quesada, so Johns' inevitable victory, as assured to me by my oracular pet hamster, will all the more sweet.
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Of course, the real losers will be us after both companies raise the price of their comics to cover the legal fees, and we owe it all to Aberzombie for orchestrating this whole plot to pit Quesada and Johns against each other in mortal combat. Thanks alot, jerk.
All part of my clever plan. You're feeble skills are no match for my Machiavellian plots. I should be a super villain, or something....
Although, according to DC's new ad campaign, they're gonna "draw the line at $2.99". Suck that Marvel-bois!
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DC's handling of characters suck. I care more about Dick, Donna, Conner, Cassie, Wally and Bart (and until recently Mia, Lian and Roy) than I do about Bruce, Diana, Clark, Hal, Ollie, and Arthur.
Oh yes;
Conner (Kent), Conner (Hawk), Dick, Tim, Donna, Bart, Kyle, Arisia, Garth (Tempest), Wally and Roy are far more interesting to me than Clark, Diana, Bruce, Hal, Ollie, Barry, etc. are.
And hell yes to more Vixen and Hawkwoman! I'm surprised that some of the non-gender-specific legacies have yet to be taken on by female characters. Earth has four male Green Lanterns, four male Flashes, etc. The biggest male-to-female legacy seems to be Doctor Light, and that's not exactly a legacy she brags about...
DC's iconic branded 'trinity' or 'big seven' characters, IMO, suck under the weight of their own artificially pimped gravitas.
DC's second-tier, second-generation and 'legacy' characters are more like Marvel characters, relatably and flawed and more prone to having feet of clay or humanizing characteristics.
Thor wasn't rocketed from a utopian world and raised by farmers to be a square-jawed two-dimensional paragon of virtue, he had his arse kicked from Asgard for being a petulant entitled manchild who needed a lesson in humility (so deemed his equally hot-headed father, who may have been seeing the mistakes of his own past in his son...). Iron Man is as rich and smart as Bruce, but is also an alcoholic playboy who has made some spectacularly bone-headed choices in his day, and is never portrayed as 'too cool to fail.' Both have struggled with their own demons, opening up 'character vs. self' storylines, in addition to the more standard 'character vs. adversary' storylines.
Unlike Clark, Bruce and Diana, Tony and Thor can learn and grow from their mistakes, because they can actually make mistakes of judgement.
Booster Gold is one of the more fascinating (to me) DC characters for that reason. Like Spider-Man, he got into costumed adventuring with less than pure intentions (Peter just wanted to cash in, at first, as well, although his course correction happened much faster than Boosters), and became a hero. He wasn't lily-pure or unbelievably nice, he was just a dude, trying to seize an opportunity and get ahead, at first. Heck, Booster was kind of a douche, at first... He's grown as a character since then, something that someone like Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman can never do, since they were pretty much unrealistically perfect paragons right out of the box, and any attempt to humanize them gets unbooted as fast as it happens, so as not to 'sully the brand' of DC's holy trinity.
And now Hal and Barry are being beatified, and made not responsible for any wrongdoing (in Hal's case) or the retconned living personification of the speed force (in Barry's case), making them as unusable as characters as the trinity have become, so high up there on their pedastals, lit flatteringly, and protected by shimmering walls of editorial mandate that prevent writers from actually doing anything meaningful with them.
Regarding the trinity, and now Hal and Barry, DC reminds me a lot of those houses you visit where the kids aren't allowed into this room or that, because of all the nice furniture. Furniture you can't sit on isn't furniture. A carpet you can't walk on isn't a carpet. Toys that are kept in the unopened box aren't toys.
And characters that never change aren't characters. They're photographs.
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And yet, for some reason, two of those boring old DC characters happen to also be two of the longest, continuously published characters in comcis history. And many others date back to the over 70 years.
However, I agree that DC has done some great writing on characters such as the Titans. Hell, Wally West Flash was one of the first series I ever collected, and I had the entire run. I was not very happy when they brought back Barry Allen. And one of the reasons I've stopped collecting the various Batman titles is because they brought Bruce Wayne back (not to mention that douchebag Morrison ruined everything with the introduction of that little prick Damian Wayne...).
However, I'll also disagree that the big DC characters never change. They've changed an awful lot over the decades they've been in publication. There is a bit of staleness in there, and I contribute that mostly to the writers, not the characters - hence my aforementioned stopping the Batmans. But the GL stuff they've been doing is pretty cool, breathing new life into old characters, while maintaining newer ones like Kyle. I'm still not sold on the whole Flash revival. As I said, I wasn't happy with bringing Barry back. But I'm willing to give Johns the benefit of the doubt for a while.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Culling
Dick was supposed to die in Final Crisis, but they backed down at the last minute, killing Conner instead.
Ryan Choi was killed to prove how cool/awesome/evil Deathstroke & Co are.
Lots of casualties in Blackest Night just to up the 'boy they're evil' quotient. Garth and Damage especially bothered me, but Holly as well (for Hank back) and Owen Mercer.
I don't know much about Gehenna, but she seemed a lot more interesting than Ronnie. I'm surprised that Wally wasn't killed actually.
And don't get me started about Cry for Justice and killing Liam and ruining Roy. They took one of the things that made Roy Harper unique (Liam, and him being active in his child's life) and killed her.
I've read elsewhere that Johns has a love of silver age heroes, and I think it shows, to DCs detriment.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Well, I've never exchanged emails with Quesada, so I give the nod to Geoff Johns!
I emailed him to tell him how much I enjoyed an issue of his Star Spangled Kid comic way back a thousand years ago, and he graciously thanked me for the comment, and said that he really needed to hear it that day. Looking at what happened over the next couple of months, I suspect I may have emailed him on the day he found out that book had been cancelled. :)
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Ryan Choi was killed to prove how cool/awesome/evil Deathstroke & Co are.
Deathstroke needed the help. He's spent twenty odd years being hyped as the deadliest and most feared assassin, and, before Choi, he had a success rate that rivals my chances of convincing Cote de Pablo and Jewel Staite to enter into a plural marriage with me.
Still, he's got a leg up on Marvel's Arcade, who charges *a million dollars a hit* and still hasn't killed anyone he's been contracted to kill. :)
Meanwhile, losers like Prometheus, who is a second-rate knock-off of the Taskmaster, who was himself a second-rate knock-off of Deathstroke, are blowing up entire cities... Meh.
Mainly because it was Dan DiDio that did it on the DC side. :PDidio is an evil man. I'd love to see 30 rapid chihuahua's get sick in his car...
While that would be funny, wouldn't rabid chihuahuas be more fitting?
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While that would be funny, wouldn't rabid chihuahuas be more fitting?Mainly because it was Dan DiDio that did it on the DC side. :PDidio is an evil man. I'd love to see 30 rapid chihuahua's get sick in his car...
Naah, I'm talking Flash speed here - that way there'd be a greater chance of them smacking into each other at high speed and exploding, thus creating an even greater mess.
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Who is this Choi character? Someone that got Terminated?
He was, at one point, the new Atom. Killed by Deathstroke.
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He was, at one point, the new Atom. Killed by Deathstroke.Who is this Choi character? Someone that got Terminated?
To expand,
Part of the nerdage on the internet was that Ryan (asian) was killed to make Ray (White) the 'one true atom'. That didn't bother me so much (insert saterical rant about the lack of left handed superheroes and how 'they can't be role models to me because they're right handed'). What bothered me was they killed Ryan to prove the 'bad-assery' of the evil Titans. Ignoring that Cheshire nuked a country, and Deathstroke nuked a city, beat Batman in a fair fight, and barely lost to Bruce, Dick, and Tim in a three on one fight.
I don't think killing the Atom makes you any kind of bada$$ in any book.
Part of the nerdage on the internet was that Ryan (asian) was killed to make Ray (White) the 'one true atom'.Personally I think he was killed because DC management is stuck in a mindset of "The Silver Age is the bestest, most awesome comics period evar!" Hal Jordan > Kyle Rayner, Barry Allen > Wally West, and Ray Palmer > Ryan Choi, not because they actually are, but simply because they are the Silver Age versions. The only character to escape this has been Hawkman, and even he almost went down to this mentality.
This.
Which is probably my biggest turnoff with DC these days.
I mean it's not like Wally West and Kyle Rayner were fill-ins for a couple of months or 2 -3 years. Wally West has been the Flash for over 20 fricking years. Kyle Rayner has been Green lantern for about 15 years and now they've been replaced by thier mentors.
I liked that DC was big on legacy heroes. I love the idea of legacy heroes. One of my most succuessful supers campaigns (Hero System) started off with a revamped verison of a silver / golden age villain coming back to kill the remaining heroes of the Silver / Golden age and the sidekicks/ Grandchildren of those heroes simultaneously having to solve the mystery of who was hunting them down and protecting thier elders from attack.
After the first arc was done the PC's as the former sidekicks and grandchildren of those heroes reformed the team (the Liberty Leigon, eventually renamed the Justice Leigon, I know original...)under the guidance of the remaining members of the original team.
I like that DickGrayson took up the Batman mantle and Damien Wayne is the new Robin. the only hero I'd feel weird about seeing replaced would probably be Superman, but then again I think Connor Kent has plenty of room for growth.
Anyway, I kind of swallowed Kyle being replaced with Hal even though I'm not a big fan of Hal Jordan at all. But when they brought back Barry Allen to replace Wally West? That was it. I pretty much stopped caring about the mainstream DC books and only picked up stuff like Batman & Robin and All Star Superman in trades. Secret Six is the only DC title I follow regularly although THUNDER Agents is also pretty darn good.
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I agree that the whole "bringing back the Silver Age" thing is annoying. I collected Wally West Flash since issue 1. Didn't particularly care for them bringing Barry back. And while I thought Final Crisis as a whole was a crap story, I liked when they "killed" Bruce Wayne, and wish he had actually been and stayed dead. I loved the idea of Dick Grayson taking up the Bat mantle, although I would have also been happy if they killed off Damien. He's a younger, even more annoying version of Jason Todd Robin.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Part of the nerdage on the internet was that Ryan (asian) was killed to make Ray (White) the 'one true atom'.Personally I think he was killed because DC management is stuck in a mindset of "The Silver Age is the bestest, most awesome comics period evar!" Hal Jordan > Kyle Rayner, Barry Allen > Wally West, and Ray Palmer > Ryan Choi, not because they actually are, but simply because they are the Silver Age versions. The only character to escape this has been Hawkman, and even he almost went down to this mentality.
This.
Especially where Geoff Johns is concerned.
I remember some author, I think it was Mark Waid, say that he was never going to write a JLA comic that had Firestorm in it, even though the character has a lot of fans and people are always bugging him to add Firestorm to the JLA. Firestorm came out long time after Waid got into comics, and the character never really gelled with him.
But he was like: Rest assured, there will come a time when JLA is written by someone who grew up with Firestorm, and loved the character, and has great ideas for stories about him. And that guy will write awesome JLA Firestorm stories.
Eventually some fan who thought that this Atom scab race quota character got a raw deal will find a way to bring him back from the dead and redeem him or whatever. They super-aged and murdered almost the entire JSA in a throw-away panel in Zero Hour because the writer didn't care about them, and within a couple of years James Robinson had resurrected all of them, gave them some of the best stories of their careers, and launched a monthly title that lasted somewhere around a decade.
Bucky and Barry Allen are back alive. Unless you're Gwen Stacey, it's pretty much a sure thing that you'll be back eventually.
Is the latino Blue Beetle still around? Not a lot of Silver Age love in shooting Ted Kord in the head, or in raping Elongated Lad's wife, for that matter. So I guess modern DC is a mixed bag in the Silver Age respect capacity, after all.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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The moment the cowl gets ripped away from Dick is the moment I cancel multiple subscriptions.
I suggest you start planning another use for that money, as I'm sure you know this is inevitable.
And I'll pick up anything good with the Martian Manhunter in it.
Which means you probably save a lot of money on Martian Manhunter comics. The Ostrander/Mandrake series must have saved you hundreds of dollars!
The odd thing is, I preferred Palmer as the Atom (mainly due to the pairing with Hawkman), but I'm not so blinded by my preference to ignore or excuse why Choi was killed.
Who cares why this scab character was killed? Why get rid of Ray Palmer in the first place? Why is it considered a good thing to provide diversity by shackling a non-white character to the "legacy" of a white character? Who not create compelling, original minority characters?
Marvel has plenty of decent nonwhite characters. Storm, Luke Cage, and Black Panther all came from a time when they were obviously looking to add some much needed multiculturalism to their whitewashed universe. Shang Chi and the Mandarin both come from stereotypical ethnic stock characters, but their decades of inclusion in the universe and opportunity for cool stories they've experienced over the years with lots of different writers has grounded them. Nowadays they seem like they've been a part of it forever, even if at one point they may have been considered "quota" characters.
But DC takes a different approach. Lacking very many interesting minority characters of their own, they lack the patience to do it the authentic way. Instead, they "cheat" by recasting their main characters, instantly matching marketable, recognizable concepts and costumes (brands, essentially) to take the short cut. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too, but the effort is automatically doomed to failure. Fans of the original characters--the ones footing the bill for the comics in the first place--want their warm, familiar icons back, and will pester incessantly to return things to the comfortable status quo. Some of them will even work the system from within by becoming the writers, editors, and decision makers themselves.
So you've got what are essentially quota-based characters awkwardly wearing the costumes of existing, popular heroes because someone thinks that's a good business decision, not because someone thinks that's a good story. And it's doomed to fail because the fans will reverse it anyway.
Don't believe me? Ask the latina Wildcat or the black female Dr. Midnight. Or the Asian Atom.
You can't, because they are dead. They were dead before they started.
Better to redeem existing multicultural characters or create dynamic new ones.
Johns has way more impressive stuff on his resume. Plus, he got his career started by calling up Richard Donner's office and not hanging up until he got to talk to Donner. Then he convinced the dude to give him a job. That's some even bigger stones there.
Well, yes, but the job in question was fetching coffee for Richard Donner, so, er, yeah, well done him.