Seems odd that if you cast the spell Call Lighting and the person is standing in water, yet they make their Reflex save with Evasion, that they take no damage.
Doesn't the lighting hit the water? Or shouldn't they have a penalty for standing/being in water?
Seems odd that if you cast the spell Call Lighting and the person is standing in water, yet they make their Reflex save with Evasion, that they take no damage.
Doesn't the lighting hit the water? Or shouldn't they have a penalty for standing/being in water?
Magic doesn't follow the rules of physics in the world we live in. As such, no. The target is not further penalized by being in water. The same way you can't avoid damage from Call Lightning by making yourself grounded.
In addition to the "magic doesn't follow physics" argument (which is the default assumption of most), the argument could be made that the person might have jumped out of the water and to the side just enough to be missed by the bolt. Since he wasn't in direct contact of the water at the time the bolt struck it, he would be perfectly fine.
It's an amazing feat to be sure, but that's why he's an adventurer.
Seems odd that if you cast the spell Call Lighting and the person is standing in water, yet they make their Reflex save with Evasion, that they take no damage.
Doesn't the lighting hit the water? Or shouldn't they have a penalty for standing/being in water?
Funny thing: water doesn't actually conduct electricity -- the ions in the water do. So if you have pure water (and it doesn't even have to be really pure) then it isn't going to be a problem.
What's more electricity still follows the shortest distance to the ground -- which if you are not in the path of, means you are safe.
Finally you expect magic to obey physics?
I thought the most basic thing about magic was that it specifically and inherently did not follow the basic rules of reality as we know it.
Depending on the depth of the water, I might give the character a penalty to the saving throw for being hampered. I agree with the posts above in terms of lightning's effect.
What about the more general "Druid casts call lightning while 100 foot deep in the ocean" situation?
There used to be a list of modifications and adjustments for underwater combat in Stormwrack in 3.5. PF got something like that?
As a proud memeber of the save the Catgirls Foundation, O must demand you stop discussing reality in a fantasy game forum.
Fortunately as your picture shows, this is a fantasy game and not a fantasy comic.
|
Funny thing: water doesn't actually conduct electricity -- the ions in the water do. So if you have pure water (and it doesn't even have to be really pure) then it isn't going to be a problem.
The only way you get water not to conduct electricity is if you remove all the ions from it. It's a process called deionisation and it is really expensive and impossible in a fantasy setting unless done with magic. And i don't see pools of deionised water everywhere, plus if it even existed, ten minutes later, it would loose it's inability to conduct electricity because it would dissolve the body of earth it lies in to an extent and become normal water again.
I always ruled that a character wearing metal armor or standing in water takes 1.5x lightning damage, and if the character is in water, he cannot take no damage even with evasion.
|
As a proud memeber of the save the Catgirls Foundation, O must demand you stop discussing reality in a fantasy game forum.
+1
Won't somebody please think of the cat girls
As a proud memeber of the save the Catgirls Foundation, O must demand you stop discussing reality in a fantasy game forum.Fortunately as your picture shows, this is a fantasy game and not a fantasy comic.And are you willing to risk the lives of those poor defenseless Catgirls if God isnt in the mood to be picky today?
Please, think of the Catgirls
Considering my opinion of any god that would harm catgirls (indeed of gods in the first place)...
I think we've all seen and/or had "wtf" moments in life where something happens that just defies all logic. For most folks it is a rare occurrence. The dog you hit going 50 mph, in a truck, gets up and runs off without a scratch. wtf?
Evasion is that 'wtf' codified into the rules. Only instead of it happening once in a lifetime they get it far more regularly. Its the 'I know I'm standing in 3 feet of water but your lightning bolt -still- missed me, so neh!". Its the same way you can center every orb of a meteor swarm on the guy and when it all blows over he's standing there polishing his nails with a yawn saying "are you gonna start yet, or shall I?".
It really makes no sense.. but it is one of the "iconic" features of the rogue (and to some extent the monk). It doesn't make logical sense- anymore than Evasion does in general but it is a neat feature that isn't exactly all-powerful as it is.
my .02.
-S
|
What about the more general "Druid casts call lightning while 100 foot deep in the ocean" situation?
I seem to remember in 2E that it basically became fireball, only with electricity (sphere of electrically charged water). I'd definitely at MINIMUM apply a hefty penalty to the saving throw. Fireball became a big ball of extremely hot steam, with the same basic effects, IIRC.
I'm of the crowd that believes that unless otherwise stated, magic follows physics. Shocking Grasp is a good example.
However, Evasion means your reflexes are uncannily quick, so jumping out of the water in time is plausible. If that's not an option, it's a whole other matter. GM's problem. ;)
|
|
Funny thing: water doesn't actually conduct electricity -- the ions in the water do. So if you have pure water (and it doesn't even have to be really pure) then it isn't going to be a problem.
Most water that adventurers find themselves in is FAR from pure:
Yeah, the guy who keeps spouting about dropping his ebberon book in his tub. I would love to see him try to use his book after dropping it into a puddle of mud in the middle of a cow pasture. Between the mud, the water, the cow feces and urine, the bugs, and so on, I doubt he'd find the book very useful afterwards.
And let's not even get into what would happen to it if you dropped it into a sewage pond behind a trailer park. :) That's a pretty good real world equivalent of your average D&D sewer.
I've found that in most circumstances evasion basically makes no sense. Consider that a person with evasion could be hit in the chest with a missile and take no damage from the ensuing explosion.
It comes down to gamist versus simulationist viewpoints. We could nit-pick and rule that because a fireball is cast in a room with pillars, those pillars displace some of the area that the fireball would normally occupy, making it "bigger". We could also ask where a hydra gets the mass required to keep growing new heads.
Sometimes its best to just accept that some things are the way they are for mechanical simplicity and that writing rules for every edge-condition isn't reasonable.
If you want to make more realistic rules, go nuts. House-rule them and move on.
No spell needs to adhere to yours or anyones opinion on physics. Its MAGIC!
I always figured that the 'explaining how that happened' was actually the major gameplay part for the DM- the other one setting up interesting scenarios.
So, your rogue leaps out the water at the last possible moment, or throws his shortsword in the air to catch the bolt and redirect it safely away from him, deftly catching the smoldering weapon as it drops back through the air and twirling it once for good measure.
Likewise, your monk dives behind an exploding pillar to shield himself from the fireball, bullet times the fire, or heck- screams and kicks the blast of fire and cuts it in half.
I'm of the crowd that believes that unless otherwise stated, magic follows physics. Shocking Grasp is a good example.
However, Evasion means your reflexes are uncannily quick, so jumping out of the water in time is plausible. If that's not an option, it's a whole other matter. GM's problem. ;)
How long does your hand hold a charge in real life? I get where you are coming from, but I am not sure how true to life Shocking Grasp really is.
Also I am under the impression that if you are in the middle of the ocean, then unless you are hit directly by the lightning your will be relatively ok. The ocean makes for a pretty good conductor and unlike you it is touching the ground. That is just what I have been told though, I would not advise anyone to call upon this post in a weather emergency.
Hell at the point I'm in that type of emergency I just might -- if it works great, and if not -- well I'm really no worse off am I?
There won't be enough of you left to file suit!
So? If it works he gets the praise, if it doesn't nothing to worry about right? Win/win for him.
I don't think that's what "win-win" means.So? If it works he gets the praise, if it doesn't nothing to worry about right? Win/win for him.
There won't be enough of you left to file suit!
Well it certainly isn't win/lose for him.