New Necromancy - Opinions, Suggestions, and Help


Homebrew and House Rules


I've added these spells to my necromancer spellbook in our Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign, and am wondering what the community thinks. Is there anything in here I need to fix to make them game legal, and is there anything I should fix or alter to make them more balanced?

Opinions and constructive criticism please!

Necrotic Reserve
The Necrotic Reserve is a pool of temporary hit points granted by necromantic or undead effects, including the temporary hit points gained by level draining undead like vampire spawn, or wraiths. The temporary hit points of a Necrotic Reserve are not damaged by effects that cause negative energy damage, and instead deal damage to regular hit points, as normal, in the cases where a Necrotic Reserve is granted to a living creature. The points in the Necrotic Reserve still do not stack with temporary hit points gained from other sources, such as the Aid spell, or a Warlord's Inspiring Word class feature. Necromancy spells that fuel, feed from, or affect the Necrotic Reserve are listed as Necromancy (NR) spells. Spells from the base set that should be considered Necromantic Reserve are:
2 False Life
3 Vampiric Touch
4 Enervation
9 Energy Drain

Shadow of the Grave
School Necromancy (NR)
Level Sorcerer/Wizard 1
Casting Time Full Round Action
Components V, S, M (Drop of Blood), F (part of an undestroyed undead creature, valued at least 10gp)
Range Personal
Target You
Duration 1hr/level (D)
Drawing forth the essence of the undead flesh, you cast upon yourself a shrouding aura that can be charged with negative energy. If you would take negative energy damage (as from an inflict spell) while at full hit points, you gain temporary hit points (a Necrotic Reserve) up to your caster level x2 (to a maximum of 20 temporary hit points at Level 10). Further damage past this amount, or damage from negative energy, does not reduce these temporary hit points, and goes into your regular hit points as normal.

Blood Pool
School Necromancy (NR)
Level Sorcerer/Wizard 2
Casting Time 1 Minute
Components V, S, M (part of an undestroyed undead creature, valued at least 10gp)
Range touch
Target undead creature touched
Duration 24 hours (D)
Save Will Negates (Harmless) Spell Resistance Yes (Harmless)
The essence of the undead craves life. Even in this small portion of an undead creature, the link between the material plane and the negative energy plane remains active. Crushing the portion into your palm, you create an undead reservoir that bolsters your own negative energy charge. Temporary hit points that would normally be gained by level drain or vampiric abilities (including spells and spell-like abilities, such as Vampiric Touch) instead charge the Blood Pool. A point from the Blood Pool can be spent as a standard action to heal one point of damage. Points from the Blood Pool can be spent as a free action to fuel abilities that rely on Necrotic Reserve, such as Channeled Necrotic Infusion, and Channeled Bone Dance.

Necroshell
School Necromancy [evil]
Level Sorcerer/Wizard 3
Casting Time 10 Minutes
Components V, S, M (One helpless corporeal undead creature)
Range personal
Target you
Duration 24 hours (D)
As you tear apart the undead creature in a highly ritualised fashion, laying out it's bones in a pattern around you, you absorb it's undead essence into yourself, causing your skin to wither and your eyes to gleam with a malevolent light. While under the effects of this spell, non-intelligent undead see you as an undead creature and do not react to your presence or actions, unless specifically told to do so by their controller. Intelligent undead see you as an undead creature, but may then react as usual to the presence of other intelligent undead.
As long as this spell remains in effect, you receive a penalty to all diplomacy checks with living creatures equal to half your caster level (round down), and a bonus equal to half your caster level (round down) on all diplomacy and bluff checks with intelligent undead. You also add half your caster level as a resistance bonus on saves against poison and disease.
While under the effects of a Necroshell, you are considered an undead creature for all spells and effects that specifically affect undead creatures. A successful turning or rebuking attempt against you (treating you as an undead creature of your Hit Dice) ends the spell, but does not otherwise affect you. Attacking an undead creature in no way negates this spell.

Undead Struggle
School Necromancy; Level Sorcerer/Wizard 1
Casting Time Full Round Action
Components V, S, M (bone shards or dust from a destroyed undead creature)
Range short (25'+5' per level)
Target 1 undead creature
Duration concentration
Save Will negates (see text) Spell Resistance Yes (Harmless)
Forging a link between the caster and the undead creature, this spell creates a visible crackling black streamer between the two bodies, a glittering mote of light traveling back and forth on the streamer to give a clue as to which creature is winning the struggle.
When first cast, an intelligent undead may make a will save against the spell, but a non-intelligent undead gets no saving throw. The undead is under a daze monster effect, as long as the caster does nothing other than concentrate on the spell and chant in each round of the spells concentration. Neither the caster nor the undead creature are helpless, but neither may take any action (other than concentrating on this effect) as long as the caster continues to concentrate. At the end of each creature's round, the subjects take 1d6 negative energy damage (for the caster) or 1d6 positive energy damage for the undead, as their life forces cancel one another out violently.

Channelled Necrotic Infusion
School Necromancy(NR) ; Level Sorcerer/Wizard 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components S, M (An increasing amount of grave dust)
Range short (25'+5' per level)
Target 1 creature
Duration concentration to 1 round/level
Save Will negates/partial (see text)
Spell Resistance Yes
When casting this spell, you use your own connection to the negative energy plane to pour uncontrolled negative energy directly into your target. If the initial saving throw against this spell succeeds, the spell has no effect. Otherwise, each round the target may make a new save to resist the effects for that round. Once the initial save is failed this spell continues to work no matter where the target goes, or how they hide, unless they enter a non-dimensional space, or enter the positive material plane, which causes an immediate and violent reaction when the infusion pushes into that realm of pure creativity. On any round in which the save fails, the target takes 1d8 points of negative energy damage, +1 per 2 caster levels (to a maximum of +5 at level 10). As usual, undead are healed by this damage. It costs you one point from your necrotic reserve each round you concentrate on this spell.
While this spell is accruing points, an application of positive energy of any sort (such as a cure wounds spells, or Channel Energy) removes these points in relation to the effects of a Channelled Necrotic Siphon first.
*If this creature has been affected by a Channelled Bone Dance during the last hour, the save DC to resist this spell is increased by +2.
*Special Requirements: This spell must be cast with one empty hand, and with either a second empty hand, or a wizards implement (such as a rod, staff, or wand). While the somatic component is handled by the implement tracing the necessary patterns in the air, the other is used to handle the increasing material components. This spell cannot be stilled or quickened. Material components always apply to this spell, even if the caster has Eschew Material Components. If you are not undead when you cast this spell, you suffer 1 negative level.

Channelled Necrotic Siphon
School Necromancy (NR); Level Sorcerer/Wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components S, M (an increasing amount of dried leeches)
Range short (25'+5' per level)
Target 1 living creature
Duration concentration to 1 round/level
Save Will negates (see text)
If the initial will save against this spell is successful, then this spell has no effect. If it is unsuccessful, this spell deals one point of negative energy damage in the first round, and fatigues the target for 1 round per caster level. On your turn each round, the target must save again, or take escalating negative energy damage equal to the number of failed saves. Passing the saving throw negates the damage for that turn, but does not end the spell. When this spell ends, you immediately recharge your necrotic reserve equal to the damage dealt.
For example, if the target fails the first save, they take one point of negative energy damage. If they fail the next four subsequent saves, they take 2, 3, 4, and five damage on each of those rounds. If they then make the sixth save, and fail the seventh, they will suffer no damage on the sixth round, but take 6 negative energy damage on the seventh round. They are fatigued through this entire duration.
*A creature who has unhealed damage from a Channelled Necrotic Infusion receives no spell resistance against this effect, and this spell has an additional effect. In addition to dealing damage, as above, you also gain fast healing equal to the damage dealt on the round the damage is dealt. Thus, on the fifth failed save, you would gain fast healing 5 until the start of your next turn.
*A creature who has survived a Channelled Bone Dance in the last hour receives a -2 penalty to the save against this spell.
*Special Requirements: This spell must be cast with one empty hand, and with either a second empty hand, or a wizards implement (such as a rod, staff, or wand). While the somatic component is handled by the implement tracing the necessary patterns in the air, the other is used to handle the increasing material components. This spell cannot be stilled or quickened. Material components always apply to this spell, even if the caster has Eschew Material Components. If you are not undead when you cast this spell, you suffer 1 negative level.

Channeled Bone Dance
School Necromancy (NR)(Evil); Level Sorcerer/Wizard 4
Casting Time Varies
Components V, S, M (The castoff chaff of cut black onyxes)
Range short (25'+5' per level)
Target 1 living creature with a skeletal system
Duration Instantaneous
Save Will partial/negates (see text)
If this damage from this spell results in the target being reduced to 0 or less hit points, a Bloody Skeleton is immediately torn free from the body, and ready to follow your commands on your initiative in the next round. This skeleton is controlled undead under all the same rules as Animate Dead.
*If cast as a swift action, this spell has no material component, and reveals the general state of health of the target, including its level of hit point damage (half, very little, nearly all), its exact hit dice, and its exact ability damage. A successful will save negates this effect. This effect has no Necrotic Reserve or Material Component.
*If cast as a move action, it has the above effect, and immediately deals your caster level in negative energy damage, with a Will Save for half damage. This effect requires one point of Necrotic Reserve per Hit Die of the creature.
*If cast as a standard action, this spell deals 1d4 negative energy damage (to a maximum of 15d4) per caster level. This effect requires one point of Necrotic Reserve per die of damage.
*If cast as a full-round action, this spell deals 1d6 negative energy damage (to a maximum of 15d6) per caster level. This effect requires one point of Necrotic Reserve per die of damage.
*If cast as a 1 round action, this spell deals 1d8 negative energy damage (to a maximum of 15d8) per caster level. This effect requires one point of Necrotic Reserve per die of damage.
*If cast with two 1 round actions, this spell deals damage equal to 8 damage per hit die of the creature. This effect requires one point of Necrotic Reserve per die of damage.

*If the target has been infected by a Channeled Necrotic Infusion the skeleton created has maximum hit points per hit die.
*If this spell is cast on a creature drained by a Channeled Necrotic Siphon the DC to resist this spell increases by +2.
*Special Requirements: This spell must be cast with one empty hand, and with either a second empty hand, or a wizards implement (such as a rod, staff, or wand). While the somatic component is handled by the implement tracing the necessary patterns in the air, the other is used to handle the increasing material components. This spell cannot be stilled or quickened. Material components always apply to this spell, even if the caster has Eschew Material Components. If you are not undead when you cast this spell, you suffer 2 negative levels.


I like, I like, nothing too over-powering in that list, really plays up the connection between Necromancy and the Undead without turning the Player into the antithesis of every Cleric they travel with.

Here are a few I came up with myself, good luck and god-speed, fellow Necromancer!

I am particularly enamoured with the Necrotic Reserve chain, as it allows the Necromancer a fair whack of survivability, and not all these spells are evil, allowing even the rare White Necromancer a chance to shine. Well done, bravo!


Thank you, thank you, Half-Metal. ^.^

Reagan is a fairly 'grey necromancer'. He only deals with unintelligent undead whenever possible, following the RP advice out of 'Necromaster' from the Complete Mage.

I used spells like Channeled Life-Theft, and Prickling Torment and Luminous Swarm as starting points, and then applied some interesting effects such as noted in the Faction Guide (Whispering Way near the end) about necromantic spells that cause negative levels to the user... including even spells that aren't usually necromancy!

I've got some other spells on deck as well, with Peristaltic Hall and Carrion Wall coming next, I think...

Dark Archive

This idea is hot. I love ideas that seize onto a pre-existing mechanic and turn it into a resource (like Sebastian's pre-Beta notion of allowing Fighters to 'spend' AoO's to take other partial actions).

Using the temporary hit points gained from necromantic effects to power further necromantic effects is genius!

False life becomes, for the non-evil necromancer, a way to charge up so that he can activate other spells. For the less moral fellow, or an undead spellcaster, a successful use of vampiric touch, or energy drain, can open up new possibilities.

Very, very innovative!

Edit: looking at the spells you've selected, it seems like death knell should probably be an option to fill a Necrotic Reserve as well. Would that be the case, even 'though it's more of a Cleric thing (perhaps with a Cleric/Wizard/Mystic Theurge using it to fuel wizard spells that require NR)?

In that vein, a feat that allows a caster to fill his Necrotic Reserve with other damaging necromantic spells, such as inflict wounds spells, either gaining temporary hit points, or merely gaining 'phantom points' only usable for Necrotic Reserve purposes, could be an interesting option.


Set wrote:


Using the temporary hit points gained from necromantic effects to power further necromantic effects is genius!

Looking at the spells you've selected, it seems like death knell should probably be an option to fill a Necrotic Reserve as well. Would that be the case, even 'though it's more of a Cleric thing (perhaps with a Cleric/Wizard/Mystic Theurge using it to fuel wizard spells that require NR)?

In that vein, a feat that allows a caster to fill his Necrotic Reserve with other damaging necromantic spells, such as inflict wounds spells, either gaining temporary hit points, or merely gaining 'phantom points' only usable for Necrotic Reserve purposes, could be an interesting option.

Death Knell would -absolutely- be in there... if used on a 6HD creature and if it weren't a cleric only spell. The intent is that any temporary hit points from a necromantic source that last up to an hour can charge the Necrotic Reserve. If you use these in your home game, consider this developer errata. ;p

Did you read Shadow of the Grave? It allows you to charge your necrotic reserve by dealing negative energy damage to yourself when you are at full hit points, such as through, say, a wand of inflict moderate wounds. Or an evil cleric channeling negative energy. The trick is, without the specific set-up, the spell has -very- little value. I've cast it five times now in game and gotten the benefits of the reserve only twice from it. -.-

The Trick: Be a Dhampir, An undead creature, cast Necroshell, or have any other means of being healed by negative energy. That causes the Necrotic Reserve to fill up, and then not burn you if it flows over.


It should also be noted that I've been using Negative Energy Ray in our game in order to give the Necromancer a bit of a negative energy oomph for attack and healing.

Sadly, the spell costs 10gp per casting. During a plague, it's hard to get hold of those small steel mirrors...

I'm wondering if I shouldn't just pump out 5750 for a CL7 wand of it since I need it *SO* often.


I wouldn't be surprised if you were the first to use necromantic temporary HP in such a way. A lot of good ideas; I wouldn't use the spells personally (different styles and all), but I know many who would. Interesting read.

Purplefixer wrote:

It should also be noted that I've been using Negative Energy Ray in our game in order to give the Necromancer a bit of a negative energy oomph for attack and healing.

Sadly, the spell costs 10gp per casting. During a plague, it's hard to get hold of those small steel mirrors...

In Tome and Blood, the spell's simply a mirror -- not necessarily worth 10GP. Eschew Materials and the Necro's problems are solved. The 10-gold mirror in the core book is a larger hand mirror (or the like), not really a spell component.


I suggested that to my DM and she agreed that the relative rarity of the Neg Energy type and the utility (at least as far as the mileage for a Dhampyr necromancer healing himself with arcane magic is concerned!) that it deserved an expensive material component. It's seemed to be balanced quite well. I -just- hit level 7, and can't wait to boil off someone's face with a necroblast...

Thanks for the props. I'm always looking for suggestions and help though! Including editing!

I've got a list of some fifteen spell concepts boiling quietly waiting for me to finish paying for these ones. Spell research is very costly. I should be getting these ones in the downtime between Book 2 and Book 3 though, since I have a heaping metric boat-load of faction points with the Whispering Way and quite a few with the Arcanimirium at the moment I have almost solely to fund my spell research, and Archminos has agreed to be my pen-pal. Other than the two I mentioned earlier, the rest virtually all have to do with mimicking the powers of undead creatures in the same manner as Ghoul Touch. (Gaze of the Vampire King, Kiss of the Blood Lord, Sanguine Gift, Children of the Night, Hateful Snarl, Tomblord's Caress, etc...)

Scarab Sages Silver Crescent Publishing

Since you asked, I'll go through the spells one by one with my thoughts and recommendations.

First, the necrotic reserve. I like the concept of it. My only concern would be for those characters who like to buff up with spells before going into major encounters. It may get a bit complex or tedious to track two seperate sets of bonus hit points (and figure out what damages what). That being said, it is still an interesting concept and one I will have to talk to my gaming group about.

Shadow of the Grave
A question regarding the focus... what piece of an undead creature (outside of mummy wrappings, vampire dust and other parts of relatively powerful undead) actually have a gold piece value? Even the whole skeleton of a defeated undead... well... skeleton would be pretty much worthless to most people. So it might be difficult to find the components that fit both the description and the gp value for a first level character. I would also raise the question of whether you get the necrotic reserve hit points if they are NOT at full hit points. For wording, you might want to say somethng like "damages regular hit points" instead of "goes in to" for reasons of clarification.

Blood Pool
First, it sounds like a superhero (not a criticism, just the first thing that came to mind... Deadpool)

The same point I made previously regarding the gp value of undead pieces applies here. I am assuming this is geared more towards undead casters, since there are only a few spells that would allow a living cster to take advantage of this.

Necroshell
Definitely an interesting concept. Though I would allow intelligent undead a Will save (similar to an illusion effect) to recognize the truth of the situation.

That's all I have time to go through right now. I'll try to get to the othes later. I hope I have been constructive and that my thoughts help.


Daniel Marshall wrote:


First, the necrotic reserve. I like the concept of it. My only concern would be for those characters who like to buff up with spells before going into major encounters. It may get a bit complex or tedious to track two separate sets of bonus hit points (and figure out what damages what). That being said, it is still an interesting concept and one I will have to talk to my gaming group about.

From the above: The points in the Necrotic Reserve still do not stack with temporary hit points gained from other sources, such as the Aid spell, or a Warlord's Inspiring Word class feature. No stacking, no bonus. Like all other temporary hit-points, they replace each other. I may need to reword that to make it more clear?

Daniel Marshall wrote:


Shadow of the Grave
A question regarding the focus... what piece of an undead creature (outside of mummy wrappings, vampire dust and other parts of relatively powerful undead) actually have a gold piece value? Even the whole skeleton of a defeated undead... well... skeleton would be pretty much worthless to most people. So it might be difficult to find the components that fit both the description and the gp value for a first level character. I would also raise the question of whether you get the necrotic reserve hit points if they are NOT at full hit points. For wording, you might want to say something like "damages regular hit points" instead of "goes in to" for reasons of clarification.

The issue here was that it needed to be something with value, so it couldn't be simply waved off the spell component pouch. My GM ruled (and I rather helped 'lead' her to the idea) that any permanent hit point of damage was worth approximately 10gp. It may require a whole skull or spine of a skeleton, but the eye or claw of a ghast, or a single draught of vampire blood has the necessary value. Logically, off the Animate Dead/Create Dead line of spells, any undead creature costs 25gp per HD to create, and since mundane items are 3x cost and magic items are 2x cost, even a Skeleton (4hp) is 'worth' at least 50gp.

My necromancer has a few entombed skeletons with no skulls made with earlier versions of Animate Dead.

You do NOT get the necrotic reserve charge if you are not at full hit points. Can I say that in a way in the spell that makes it more clear? You are right though, I'm replacing 'goes into' with 'damages'.

Daniel Marshall wrote:


Blood Pool
First, it sounds like a superhero (not a criticism, just the first thing that came to mind... Deadpool)

The same point I made previously regarding the gp value of undead pieces applies here. I am assuming this is geared more towards undead casters, since there are only a few spells that would allow a living caster to take advantage of this.

*Laughs* Sorry... It's actually stolen from the idea of the blood pool from the games of Vampire. It likely needs to be renamed. Applying this spell to a living creature requires use of Necroshell, or Shroud of Undeath (Spell Compendium).

Daniel Marshall wrote:


Necroshell
Definitely an interesting concept. Though I would allow intelligent undead a Will save (similar to an illusion effect) to recognize the truth of the situation.

That's all I have time to go through right now. I'll try to get to the others later. I hope I have been constructive and that my thoughts help.

The spell is based off the invisibility line, and Hide from Undead. The latter allows a Will save for intelligent undead, but the former does not. Most undead are smart enough to eyeball the guy and at least ask "Hey, what kind of undead are -you-?" That'll teach them not to train Knowledge: Religion! I want the effect of the Wraithstalker's Shirt from the Magic Item Compendium, and a means by which to access the Blood Pool spell. Sadly, this spell is easily removed by either traditional dispelling or through a turn undead check. Since it doesn't change the behavior of intelligent undead in any way, it only becomes an 'I win button' for unintelligent undead as long as no one else in your party is alive. This spell enables the use of undead only spells, which is its entire purpose. Remember that illusions only offer a will-save if interacted with. That would require an undead creature trying to life-drain or attribute-drain you. When you lost levels or strength or what-have you, then he has a reason to roll a save. This is not, however, an illusionary effect. It is an advanced necromantic effect that infuses a creature with negative energy to the point where they 'register' as undead to magical targeting.

You also wouldn't want to be smited with this spell up.


I love these ideas, and just might use them in my upcoming game--my character is designed to rely on temporary hp and vampiric touch spells, so this is perfect for him. (Blood pool is making me drool in anticipation...)

The only thing I found weird is the Special Requirement that these spells can't be Stilled or Silenced. While some descriptive text is nice and all, I don't see any reason for these spells to divorce themselves so fully from the standard spellcasting mechanics, where precious, precious feats and spell slots are involved. Why did you decide to include those restrictions?


Because they have varying caster times, and any part of a varying caster time prevents you from quickening. It's really only to dispel confusion anyway; Per RAW you CANNOT quicken a spell with a casting time higher than 1 Standard Action.

Channeled Bone Dance can be silenced, but the others can't because they have no verbal component. ;p

Part of what makes Infusion only level only 2 is that they have difficult restrictions to overcome.

This being said, I have only TESTED Shadow of the Grave, and it is balanced beside False Life at L2. The others I really need to see used in play beside other spells to check them out. Remember that Necromancy is generally at a +1 Level from equivalent Evocation effects!

PS: Know what I'm drooling over... see if you can spot it...
Page 308, Advanced Player's Guide.


Purplefixer wrote:

Because they have varying caster times, and any part of a varying caster time prevents you from quickening. It's really only to dispel confusion anyway; Per RAW you CANNOT quicken a spell with a casting time higher than 1 Standard Action.

Channeled Bone Dance can be silenced, but the others can't because they have no verbal component. ;p

Well, lookee that, I didn't pay attention to the components.

Regarding the Eschew Materials restrictions, why not just give the material components a minor cost? More than 1gp, obviously, but still low--maybe 5gp? That way you aren't obviously and awkwardly strong-arming the rules--and you save in printing costs if you ever get this in a book :)

Also, the "if you are not undead you gain a negative level" restriction is unnecessary--just say you gain a negative level. Undead are immune to negative levels (unless that changed and I missed it), so the explanation is unnecessary. Unless it's there specifically for purposes of interaction with the Necroshell spell--is it supposed to protect the caster from the negative levels gained from those spells? If so, the wording is a little unclear.

Still don't really agree with the "no Quicken" or "no Still" restrictions--I would just change it to a 1 round casting time to avoid the awkwardness of "no Quicken"... and I'll just ignore your "no Still" when I try these out in-game :)

Purplefixer wrote:

PS: Know what I'm drooling over... see if you can spot it...

Page 308, Advanced Player's Guide.

Don't have my book on me, and the PRD lacks page numbers but now I'm horribly curious! Is it the necromancer's athame?


wynterknight wrote:


Well, lookee that, I didn't pay attention to the components.

Regarding the Eschew Materials restrictions, why not just give the material components a minor cost? More than 1gp, obviously, but still low--maybe 5gp? That way you aren't obviously and awkwardly strong-arming the rules--and you save in printing costs if you ever get this in a book :)

I could conceivably do that. I could make the cost 2gp worth of ground silver mixed with gravedust per turn of the concentration of the spell, or vampire-fed leeches, worth 2gp per round of concentration... The cost is still negligable by L5, and it requires stocking up on rare components ahead of time... which should be it's own drawback as it stands. I had sort of hoped to avoid that, though, by making it common spell-components that were free to replace.

Wynterknight wrote:

Also, the "if you are not undead you gain a negative level" restriction is unnecessary--just say you gain a negative level. Undead are immune to negative levels (unless that changed and I missed it), so the explanation is unnecessary. Unless it's there specifically for purposes of interaction with the Necroshell spell--is it supposed to protect the caster from the negative levels gained from those spells? If so, the wording is a little unclear.

Still don't really agree with the "no Quicken" or "no Still" restrictions--I would just change it to a 1 round casting time to avoid the awkwardness of "no Quicken"... and I'll just ignore your "no Still" when I try these out in-game :)

Rereading things with a fresh outlook, I can see that that could be removed entirely from Channeled Bone Dance (it obviously can't be quickened because it doesn't follow the rules of the feat), and quickening the other two really doesn't make much difference. It raises them umpteen levels, and STILL requires concentration each round for saving a whole standard action. Big whoop. The thing is, I -want- these spells to take two hands to cast. I asked for Spell Benchmarks in another thread, but no one replied, so I'm eyeballing Fireball as the benchmark for the level 2 spell, and [/i]Charm Monster/Bestow Curse/Ice Storm[/i] for the Level 3 spell. I thought it better to ere on the side of caution when assigning the spell levels. People are -obviously- going to want to cast the Siphon right after the Infusion, if the infusion doesn't kill them outright, but those costs need to be factored in.

Do you think they remain balanced removing the negative drawbacks I built into the spells?

Yes, the 'negative level thing' is specifically created to interact with Necroshell and Shroud of Undeath (Spell Compendium, p189). The inspiration comes from the Pathfinder Faction Guide, p53.

Pathfinder Chronicles: Faction Guide, p53 wrote:


15 TPA, 1 CPA: Gain access to a spellbook, other magical document, or a lore keeper for the purposes of learning or researching one necromancy spell. This benefit does not require a Spellcraft check or any additional transcription costs. Some of these writings contain versions of the spells that are 1-2 levels lower than the normal version of the spell (such as a level 3 version of enervation), arcane versions of divine spells (or vice versa), or even necromantic versions of spells that normally belong in another school (such as a Necromancy-school wall of ice spell). These versions require the caster to be undead; otherwise they inflict negative levels on the caster when cast.
Wynterknight wrote:


Don't have my book on me, and the PRD lacks page numbers but now I'm horribly curious! Is it the necromancer's athame?

It is!


Without using them in play, I can't really venture an opinion on how balanced they are. Unfortunately, it looks like it'll be a week or so before my group can get together to start our campaign... and we'll be starting at 1st level, so I guess I'll let you know how it works in a few months? :-/

As for the 2-handed casting, there's not really any precedence for a spell that specifies you have to have 2 hands free... Not saying it's a bad idea, just that it's bypassing the whole "extremely abstracted spellcasting" thing that D&D/Pathfinder has going, and getting into Houserule territory (...beyond the fact that it's a homebrewed spell...). Heck, you don't even technically have to do anything with material components, just have them in hand.


Right. Without accurate benchmarks, I can only really hope I'm in the right territory. Because we can't compare Necromancy to Evocation, we have to say 'infusion or fireball' to see that we -definitely- prefer the damage dealing potential of fireball. Really, Infusion should be about equivalent to scorching ray. Then we have to justify why it isn't a level ahead within its own negatives.

The negative level drawback can be sidestepped with another spell already in my list of spells to research (or by simply being a vampire. Bleigh!), and the other part was thematic flavoring that I wanted to put in. It's possible it was too ambitious.

I like it thought. ^.^

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