I just ran my 10th-level party through an encounter with a ghonhatine, and it completely ate their lunch. They only managed to do 45 points of damage to it, in toto, and ended up having to distract it and run the heck away.
Part of the problem was bad dice rolls on the saves. (No one ever managed to make the save, and I think the highest roll anyone made was a 10.) Part of the problem was that the party is weak at range and the only spellcaster they have is a bard. A DC 24 Fort save is pretty tough, though; the PC with the best Fort save in the party would have had to roll a 12, and a couple of them needed an 18. The nauseated condition is one of the worst out there, completely denying the PCs an attack and no way to remove it. And four attacks at such a high bonus when it gets a full attack is brutal as well. Even with the nauseated PC moving away every round, the monster was doing about 22 damage with every hit, plus another if they failed their Acrobatics check to avoid the AoO (and I don't know if I was even bending the rules by allowing them to do that as part of their single move action).
Am I wrong in thinking this creature is under-CRed? Was it just bad dice-rolling and a poor fit for my party's abilities? (They're a fighter 7/chevalier 3, monk 10, bard 10, and rogue 6/ranger 4.)
I haven't used one of these myself, but based on the statblock compared to the monster creation guidelines:
The save DC for its abilities is pretty high (DC 24 would be a CR 16 creature). Two of its own saves are pretty atrocious for its CR, so that may balance out. The AC is spot on, the hit points are slightly high, and the attack bonus is actually a little low for CR 10. The damage if it hits with all attacks in a full attack is spot on.
Overall, it looks pretty dangerous for its CR, and is at the high end of CR 10 creatures. Looking at Bestiary creatures at CR 10, only the Bebilith and the Dragons are comparable to it.
I suspect the party composition may have something to do with the difficulty (there's neither a full divine caster nor a full arcane caster). The major problem is the failure to save from its aura though. At least the fighter and monk should have been able to save with a couple of attempts, and since they'd be immune afterwards the fight would have been far easier.
Going back over the stat block, I see I screwed up by not reading to the end of the paragraph to note that anti-poison abilities work against the nausea. The chevalier should have been immune, which would most likely have made a big swing in the fight. So, as I suspected, I missed something. :P
I also think it's pretty brutal that its tactic is to immediately devour anyone it drops to unconsciousness. If someone can't get to a fallen party member within a round (or drop the monster in the meantime), it's a 7th level spell and 10,000 gp or roll up a new character.
As you say, though, the biggest problem was the bad dice luck the party was having and the lack of a full caster (which has hampered the party since they've lost two clerics due to players quitting).
So did you use the Ghonhatine, how I had it set up with the Razor Crowns?
Sounds like it was difficult
So did you use the Ghonhatine, how I had it set up with the Razor Crowns?
Sounds like it was difficult
I used your stats, yes, although I didn't make it Orvignato and his mercenaries since the party already knows him and is using him as a resource for local knowledge. I made the lead guy into an information broker that they believe has information about Allevrah Azrinae and put him and his guys on the fungus islands in lake Cythvahei. I put some of the mercenaries on the big island, and the party cut through them like butter; the lead guy just managed to flee to the other island. I thought I'd have the big knock-down drag-out there with some extra mercenaries and the main guy and the ghonhatine. The idea was that the drow were hiding to ambush the party once the ghonhatine attacked them; only then, when everyone started failing saves and getting torn up, I decided I'd better hold off on the drow and just let them fight the ghonhatine alone, and they still had to run.
It bugs me that I screwed up the immunity to poison thing. That might have been the difference the party needed. Do anti-poison effects combat all nausea-inducing conditions? I looked up the nauseated condition and didn't see anything about it there.
EDIT: Ah, it's listed under Stench in universal monster rules. So, the anti-poison thing only works against stench-based nausea?
So when will we get updates on the Camp Journal and on the Changes you made to the story
So when will we get updates on the Camp Journal and on the Changes you made to the story
I'm hoping to get the next installment of the campaign journal up today, and I think we might be able to finish up book 4 next week. (Ordinarily, we don't get a chance to play more than once a month, but I think we're going to make it back-to-back weeks, what with spring break.) After that, I'll make another post in the "Deviating from the Plot" thread to summarize the changes I made in Endless Night. (I think I know how it's going to play out, but no battle plan survives contact with the enemy; my players surprise me pretty regularly, and things end up going in a different direction.)
Also, back on topic, the immune to critical hits thing stinks.
I thought they were a solid creature and would be a fun combat and you are confirming my thoughts
FWIW, the encounter ran about 14 rounds, although most of it was nauseated people just move-actioning away and getting AoOed and bitten on either end. The party ended up using invisibility and a distracting ghost sound on the less-than-intelligent creature to make their getaway.