So, is it just me, or is Nyrissa just not all that evil?
The lords of the First World ripped her heart out and killed her husband for no legitimate reason. Her desire for revenge is very sympathetic. Furthermore, her evil plan isn't all that evil - sure, it would be kind of annoying to be faced with the choice of leaving your home in the Stolen lands or being trapped in the stolen lands for ever, but no one has to get hurt or killed for it to work. For the record, I think this moral ambiguity is very cool.
As my PCs learn about her, I think there's a significant chance that they'll be all "screw the first world bosses!" and want to help Nyrissa, even if they don't quite want to go along with bottling their kingdom.
It seemed strange to me that Nyrissa contacted every two-bit lord in the stolen lands and tried to seduce them, but doesn't bother with the PCs. So I had Nyrissa appear in dreams to the party's ranger, the one who is wearing the Stag Lord's helm. He resisted her temptations, but managed to get her hooks into our Warlock another way.
Has anyone dealt with portraying Nyrissa as more sane and sympathetic in their games? Any tips or pitfalls?
It seemed strange to me that Nyrissa contacted every two-bit lord in the stolen lands and tried to seduce them, but doesn't bother with the PCs.
This is particularly insightful and I agree; it seems odd that she wouldn't similarly approach the PCs.
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I don't really have much to add to this conversation (yet) as I haven't really figured it all out yet (as it applies to Nyrissa).
However, it seems to be a potentially good conversation - so I'll be paying attention to it (and posting when I have something)
So this is just a lengthy "dotted" post.
Robert
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One thing I can think of is along the “destiny” lines…like she knows the PCs are “destined” to foil her plans, and end her.
Thus, she’s doing all she can to thwart them and/or kill them first. (Judging by the length of the obituary thread, she’s not doing too badly on that front, btw.) If this is the case, she’d do anything in her power to not only not approach them, but keep her existence a secret.
As far as her being sympathetic or sane, that kind of defeats the purpose, IMO, although it may be interesting to see how it turns out--especially if it is only at the very climax that things turn.
Overall, I’d say the single best word to describe her situation is “tragic.”
She may have been driven to her actions, but she’s been responsible for great evils on our plane. Sympathetic, maybe, but…that’s a lot of death to account for. Remember that poor unicorn… She’s got to be put down.
You have to admit, tragedy makes for great storytelling. ;)
While I've been running Kingmaker, I haven't gotten volumes 4+, so I'm not really sure, but you do raise a valid point. Perhaps she isn't contacting the PCs because they're more... good than the NPCs she does contact (like the Stag Lord, the Troll King, and Irovetti, for example). Perhaps, assuming the PCs tend towards good rather than evil, she recognizes that they aren't going to necessarily side with her anyway, so she naturally opposes them because she knows they won't go along with her plans.
Either way, with what I've been doing with my campaign, Nyrissa isn't quite going to be the same lady, and she'll likely be much less sympathetic. Part and parcel of not setting it in Golarion, and having a world that just doesn't quite have an analogue to the First World of the Fae.
Hmmm. Interesting point. I hadn't considered N's role in things too much just yet, but I've made a few changes to Parts 1 and 2 already and going forward I think I'll give her more of an overt part to play and have her at least try to contact the PCs before Part 6.
I'm planning on introducing Rhoswen from 'Realm of the Fellnight Queen' as Nyrissa's daughter. She's still trapped, but she's working with (or rather, as a puppet of) her mother. It seemed an obvious link to me, since Rhoswen's crime was combining shadow and fey magics that her parents should be Nyrissa and Count Ranalc.
I'm also planning on linking the Eye of Abaddon to the Vanishing of the Rogarvias in Brevoy. Not directly, but another artifact similar to the Eye was used. I'm hoping my players make the connection themselves but I'm prepared to give them lots of hints.
I just want to explain some elements that are going on in the background, because I know that some of my players will want to know and I have ideas for how this can all tie into an ongoing campaign after the AP concludes, whether that is the return of Choral, an invasion from Iobaria, revolution in Brevoy, a combination of all three, or something else entirely I haven't quite worked out yet...
You have no idea.
I loved Kingmaker to death, but kept having some trouble visualizing how the game would actually come together, until I came to a similar conclusion. Or, more specifically, I got bothered by Briar (which is its own post) and that it, the very intended element of Nryssia's destruction, was her capacity to love, given material form. That's crazy.
My idea was (or, more accurately, will be - the game starts up next month) to incorporate more of a 'fairy story' aspect to things, though less Walt Disney and more W.B. Yeats. The fae often represent the wild and unpredictable. They're inhumane because they're not human, even though they seem so close to being, and that's what makes them so dangerous.
And that's what happened to Nyrissa. Maybe she was even a mortal once, and in love with one of the Eldest. But she made the mistake, almost trivial, of thinking or referring to herself in some way as part of the Eldest, and so their reprisal was swift and merciless, and, more importantly, wholly out of line with the actual crime. Her whole scheme is much more desperate, and she's not so much interested in power as wholeness. If the Eldest would just go on and rejoin her personality, she'd be just as happy to walk away from it all. But because of the situation and how it is, she has to play things out to the end.
The somewhat more out there aspect was that, whomever is using Briar, is going to be deeply connected to Nyrissa. What this would lead to is the Achillies-Penthesilea scene, under the idea that the act of killing her with her own love is going to leave some serious emotional scars in terms of whomever is wielding that love as a weapon. Thus, the whole possible "first world scavenger hunt" amongst the Elders becomes less of a scouring of the shire/'puny mortal! You can't understand destiny!' and more of a race against time to put Nyrissa back together again, even if she remains dead, if only to prevent her death from killing part of the party.
I do think that she needs precursor appearances, whether or not the players know it is her. I didn't really think about the aspect of how she is...ahem...widely known amongst the rest of the leadership, but doesn't target the PCs. I took some of that as part of the lost-love side of her personality. But it's a good point that you raise. It suggests (assuming, that is, she's not seducing PCs) a much more Xanatos Gambit ploy on her part. After all, if she continuously plays off of one group, she pushes them to unify a singular Stolen Lands: then, with the group having done all the footwork, she steals it directly from them.
It suggests (assuming, that is, she's not seducing PCs) a much more Xanatos Gambit ploy on her part. After all, if she continuously plays off of one group, she pushes them to unify a singular Stolen Lands: then, with the group having done all the footwork, she steals it directly from them.
It's not a Xanatos Gambit. It is Xanatos Speed Chess, however.
I'd say that the reason she doesn't approach the PCs isn't because they're "Good"-er or whatever, but rather because they're the ones who show up to crash the party after her plans are initially in motion. At that point, she's just pissed, and has no desire to work with the PCs for ruining her plans.