Psionic Aboleths

[carborundum]

How do I add 5 Psion levels to a Psionic Aboleth?

It's powers are all Psi-Like abilities, with a Manifester Level of either 7 or 13. Leaving these as is and adding 5 levels of Psion on the side is unsatisfying, as the PPs and powers are of a much lower level than the innate ability.

I'm tempted to change the psi-like abilities to actual powers and give the thing PPs as if it already was, say, Psion 7. Then add 5 more levels of Psion to round it off. Possibly also give it a racial ability increasing the ML of those abilities listed as ML13 by 6.

What would the CR be for such a beast? If I make the Psion levels stack and the thing is an actual Psion 12, then CR 13 seems reasonable. If the thing has its racial Psi-Likes and is ALSO a Psion 5 then I don't think 13 is reasonable at all. Maybe 9 - as if the levels were non-associated.

Tricky tricky tricky... Anyone ever worked this out?

[Sebastrd]

carborundum wrote:

How do I add 5 Psion levels to a Psionic Aboleth?

It's powers are all Psi-Like abilities, with a Manifester Level of either 7 or 13. Leaving these as is and adding 5 levels of Psion on the side is unsatisfying, as the PPs and powers are of a much lower level than the innate ability.

I'm tempted to change the psi-like abilities to actual powers and give the thing PPs as if it already was, say, Psion 7. Then add 5 more levels of Psion to round it off. Possibly also give it a racial ability increasing the ML of those abilities listed as ML13 by 6.

What would the CR be for such a beast? If I make the Psion levels stack and the thing is an actual Psion 12, then CR 13 seems reasonable. If the thing has its racial Psi-Likes and is ALSO a Psion 5 then I don't think 13 is reasonable at all. Maybe 9 - as if the levels were non-associated.

Tricky tricky tricky... Anyone ever worked this out?

Why not advance the hit dice and add 1 or 2 more psi-like abilities? Keep the ML the same for all abilities based on the total hit dice.

[carborundum]

That's a good idea! And base the level of ability on the ML. I like it.

But... purely from a rule-application perspective, how would you add Psion levels without it becoming a schizophrenic beastie?

[Bill Mead]

The class levels will stack independently of the base creature. Since all its psionic abilities are psi like and have daily uses vs powered by power points, then everything divides easily. Just imagine that a spell using creature that has both spell levels from a class and spell like abilities. The two do not stack, the psi/spell like abilities have an independent level from their actual psionic manifester/spell caster level. As for CR, any creature that adds classes to its base is simply advanced in CR 1 per level added.

So, in your example, if the Aboleth had both a psi like ability and a psionic power of the same name, it could choose to either use a daily allotment at a fixed manifester level or the power point version at its level based manifester level. When you start adding in or changing standard feats for the creature, either of these two effects could be affected, but that would be a different question...

[carborundum]

Thanks Bill, that makes sense, in a unfortunately-not-awesome kind of way. I guess I could invent a feat to let the levels stack for the purposes of Manifester level, but letting the HD stack to get higher level powers is a rather more radical intervention.

You end up with situations like the Aboleth Mage 10 in the Monster manual - no way is that CR17. A 15th level party would tickle him to death. I think I'd combine the CRs as if they were two adversaries - a 7 and a 10 - giving a CR of 11.

Hmmmmm...

[Moff Rimmer]

carborundum wrote:

Thanks Bill, that makes sense, in a unfortunately-not-awesome kind of way. I guess I could invent a feat to let the levels stack for the purposes of Manifester level, but letting the HD stack to get higher level powers is a rather more radical intervention.

Ok, yes and no.

Assuming you have the Expanded Psionics Handbook, page 185 has options for a psionic version of the Aboleth. (It also has a psionic version of the Illithid as well.)

If you go that route, you can stack levels of psion.

EDIT: Never mind. I'm wrong. The Aboleth is listed differently than the Mind Flayer. It does give an ML of 7 -- I'd eliminate the power-like abilities and give it powers of a 7th level Manifestor (sp?) and then go from there.