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Carl Sargent's Cegilune, the real Queen, or
Monte Cook's Malagarde, the Night Hag Asmodeus promoted to rule Hell's 6th Circle?
I like Malagarde better -- despite the fact that she's "dead."
But Cegilune is THE goddess, so....
I've recently come to the part of my Homebrew Cosmology where Night Hags are important: their history, society, gaming role, place in the cosmology, etc., and I'm torn between choosing the GREAT Sargent or the equally GREAT Cook, two of the top 10 (or 5) most important, most talented designers in gaming history.
Please, PLEASE, chime in and post your opinions of either of these two Night Hags and how you've used them -- or seen yourself using them if you were ever going to. Who's better? Who's more appropriately Queen/ Goddess? What would the other be, then? How do you/ would you use them, or one of them?
Carl Sargent's Cegilune, the real Queen, or
Monte Cook's Malagarde, the Night Hag Asmodeus promoted to rule Hell's 6th Circle?I like Malagarde better -- despite the fact that she's "dead."
But Cegilune is THE goddess, so....
I've recently come to the part of my Homebrew Cosmology where Night Hags are important: their history, society, gaming role, place in the cosmology, etc., and I'm torn between choosing the GREAT Sargent or the equally GREAT Cook, two of the top 10 (or 5) most important, most talented designers in gaming history.
Please, PLEASE, chime in and post your opinions of either of these two Night Hags and how you've used them -- or seen yourself using them if you were ever going to. Who's better? Who's more appropriately Queen/ Goddess? What would the other be, then? How do you/ would you use them, or one of them?
Cegilune, no contest. Actual deity versus run of the mill night hag who left her native plane and got lucky in the politics of Hell (and later fell victim to them).
Cegilune's name is just cooler too. :D
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Cegilune's name is just cooler too. :D
Huh, I never noticed the spelling. I pronounced it 'Seg-li-oon' when it should have been 'Seg-e-loon.' I might have to get pretentious and pronounce it 'say-ja-lune,' just to be different...
I like the name Malagarde better, but she loses points for replacing someone much cooler in the infernal heirarchy, and doing a poor job of it. :)
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See, I've always disliked the name "Cegilune." But a new pronunciation -- I like "seg lee oon" -- and there's no problem pronouncing that way (Favre = farv).
And I also kinda like "say ja loon."
And I'm totally with you on Malagarde -- VERY cool name, which means everything to me -- and yeah, what Monte Cook did in the BoVD was, um, swamp-donkey LAME. .... But did you see what Robin Laws did with her in the FCII?!!
I think I'll keep to tradition with, hmmmm, . . . . SEDJH eh loon as Queen of Night Hags and be happy.
But I still like Malagarde so I need to think of something for her -- eventually sometime time down the road I'll think of a legitimate way to have her resurrected somehow and give her a role appropriate to her history.
You could still have Malagarde return and try to usurp Cegilunes place - this would take aeons, of course, but you have to start somewhere. This could make for bitter rivalries between hags.
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If Cegilune remains the god, Malagarde can be her high priestess / avatar / herald or something, and be as much, or even more, powerful than she was as 'temporary proxy ruler of a layer of hell.'
Both are usable. Lots of gods have high-powered flunkies, and Malagarde can fill the same sort of niche that the hawt three-winged angel chick fills for Cayden Cailean.
Perhaps, many centuries ago, both were just rank and file night hags, part of a covey of three (what happened to third sister is spoken of by neither, but we'll assume it didn't involve a nice retirement package and a gold watch), and Malagarde quite naturally resents Cegilune for being the one to have 'made the big time,' but grudgingly serves her 'sister' more-or-less well.
Why would Cegilune keep a potential rival so close? What's the point of being evil if you can't spitefully lord it over someone you stepped all over in your ascent to the top? Really, that's half the fun, grinding it in her sisters face and knowing how much it burns, revealed in every surly word and gesture...
I personally like the name Cegilune. It’s got a luna – moon association going for it. Ray, I think you play in Greyhawk, which could use another moon goddess or two, I think.
The only other thing I can add to the conversation is Wes Schneider had a short-but-sweet sidebar article in Dragon 345’s “Ecology of the Annis Hag” about Cegilune.
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Thanks Guys!
This has really helped.
The idea of Malagarde as a rvial doesn't fit with me, personally -- though I don't have a great alternative to give now. It's no biggie; now that I've got Cegilune as my choice I can wait until a need comes up where Malagarde fits in appropriately (which can take a few years).
I do like GH and the game I'm currently playing in and the game I'm currently planning for are in GH but I spend an equal amount of time in FR and will begin spending more and more time in Golarion.
There is a GH deity of Hags, her name starts with an "S," I think -- anyway, you read her stuff in the LGG and think My god, that's Vecna, so I just had Vecna eat her portfolio.
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There is a GH deity of Hags, her name starts with an "S," I think -- anyway, you read her stuff in the LGG and think My god, that's Vecna, so I just had Vecna eat her portfolio.
I went the other direction, being an old fogey, who remembers Syrul as being the Sueloise goddess of deceit and treachery (not as popular as Wee Jas, of that pantheon, obviously), and Vecna as being some old lich who got himself dismembered and killed and existed only as backstory behind some artifacts, making him about as relevant to the modern story as Dahlver-Nar or Arnd.
Then he got all uppity and was the subject of the most terrible adventure ever, where he beat up all the other gods and made them work in salt mines under Castle Greyhawk or something. (Okay, maybe I'm confusing him with Waldorf, but the two share some powerful similarities.)
Vecna. Ugh.
Golarion kinda repeats the Cegiline / Malagarde issue, having a goddess (Gyronna) and a demon lord (Mestama) of Hags, and a few other appropriate choices (Lamashtu, frex) scattered about.
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LOL
See, I had never heard of Syrul 'till a couple weeks ago when I started this (checked the LGG last night to remember the name) but Vecna -- well, when Vecna Lives! came out in 90 I really wanted it. Bad. But I was a young teenager and couldn't get it.
I think that's the reason I always liked Vecna. I used to go to my LGS and look at the cover art and such, dreamily wishing I had money. I made up for it by DMing a number of campaigns back in High School where Vecna was the evil Power behind the BBEG. I just made everything up.
I know Vecna Lives! is the worst Railroading in D&D history -- as much or more than the FR trilogy where the PCs follow around the "real heroes" of The Time of Troubles. But that doesn't matter to a kid who wants something he can't get.
I must have missed Vecna Returns! in the late 90s cuz I didn't even know about it but when Die Vecna Die! came out I, by then a PHD candidate no longer bound by my mother's lack of expendable money, bought it immediately.
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Check out the Scarred Lands Creature Collection for some interesting Hags. Swamp Hags, Storm Hags, Ice Hags, Cave Hags. Very cool.
Of the core Hags, the Annis and the Green Hag I've always liked, but the Sea Hag and the Night Hag never really clicked with me.
For the role I would put a 'sea hag' in, mysterious beautiful woman out on the lake (or in the cove) at night, luring a man to swim out to her and then turning into an ugly hag and dragging him down to drown and / or get nibbled on by her pet barracuda (shrieking eels, whatever), a Green Hag works much better anyway since they've got the swimming, water breathing, disguise self, high strength and weakness touch thing going on. Give her some ranks in Handle Animal for the fish-whispering, and she's good to go.
The Annis is kind of the bugbear of Hags, larger than normal with some giant-ish traits. The Hags could totally use a smaller than normal 'goblin-hag' that relies more on magical trickery and poison and maybe some tamed critters, than on brute strength...