Hey , I assume the Hellknights also have a dress attire (think prussian ball outfits all sash style). I would image they do not eat and do day to day business in Full plate.
Well I have to admit, I am no official source on this subject ;)
But.....
1) Hellknights have Signifiers and Paravicars...arcane or religious spellcasters (neither of these have Heavy Armor Proficiency, and arcane spell casters would have an issue with casting spells...so I assume these individuals get to wear something "official").
Pathfinder Campaign Setting pg. 193
2) In the Council of Thieves adventure Path, there were pictures of Hellknights in adventure Path #30 and a stat block on page 38 of same issue, one Ara Verennie, who is a Signifier, but guess what she does not wear armor, albeit she also is a ghost (and at this point a minion of Mammon).
3) I assume being a Hellknight is more than just being a "fighter", but that is the iconic image.
4) I am the author of that scenario, and my intent was a more dress attire, not battle gear, but I can see how that can be confusing.
I hope this explanation helps :)
Larry Wilhelm
What Mark said, and no problem, always glad to help! Thanks for buying, and hopefully, playing the scenario, I'd love to see a review!
Happy Gaming!
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Thread necro! I'm prepping to run this, and I think it's a great mix of elements. I did have a few questions that I'm hoping I can get some guidance on:
1) How did people run the elevator set-piece (which I think is awesome)? Just draw a 10x40 box with the PCs inside? Do the morlocks just hang on the outside and bite through the bars to adjacent PCs (when rolling 1-4), or can they enter the “birdcage” elevator?
2) Which stairs go to the 2nd level of the citadel? Those on the outer ring? How do they carytids protect them if they are in the inner circle?
3) Does applying the young template to the retriever modify to damage of his eye rays?
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Contributor
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Thread necro! I'm prepping to run this, and I think it's a great mix of elements. I did have a few questions that I'm hoping I can get some guidance on:
1) How did people run the elevator set-piece (which I think is awesome)? Just draw a 10x40 box with the PCs inside? Do the morlocks just hang on the outside and bite through the bars to adjacent PCs (when rolling 1-4), or can they enter the “birdcage” elevator?
2) Which stairs go to the 2nd level of the citadel? Those on the outer ring? How do they carytids protect them if they are in the inner circle?
3) Does applying the young template to the retriever modify to damage of his eye rays?
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
I'm also prepping to run this (Fiend trilogy - Fingerprints, Fury, and then Fate in a few weeks).
1 - When I ran it last time, I had them hanging onto the outside, grabbing at the PCs through the bars (since it's only 10x across, PCs have to be adjacent to one edge at all times). Although, when I ran it there were two animal companions (one of them Large) so that elevator was kind of full!
2 - I believe the outer ring ones do, yea. The way I did it was to use the Priestess to lure PCs into the center before the columns sprang to life and she jumped up to the second level.
3 - I'll get back to you on this one unless someone else beats me to it. I've only run it at 10-11 so far.
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This is one of my more favorite scenarios now after playing it. Looking forward to running it soon and giving my players hell in the elevator sequence. :)
I echo these sentiments.
I wish some of the newer scenarios had these sort of "set-piece" encounters.
I also see how a party of 6 would have trivialized it, though.
4 > 6.
Venture-Agent, Ohio—Columbus
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3) Does applying the young template to the retriever modify to damage of his eye rays?Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Necroing the necro. I'm running this at Origins next week and was wondering the same thing about the eye rays on low tier.
Any opinions on this? 12d6 dmg seems like it might be pretty punishing for tier 7-8. They already are getting a +3 boost to the ranged touch from being a size smaller and the extra dex from the young template.
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I ran this a few months ago. In my game, a gunslinger took it out in one round; I don't think I had the chance to use more than one eye ray.
Combat starts with the Chaos that Crawls over 200 feet away, so parties with long-range attacks can gets some hits in before it can get within eye ray range.
12d6 averages to 42 points of damage (21 on a successful save). Unless the party leads with a low-HP character, odds are that even if you roll well, the front-liners at 7-8 will survive at least one hit. If you are feeling kindly, you can direct eye rays at different targets each round, to spread out the damage.
Clever parties can also use tactics and low-level spells (e.g., obscuring mist) to hinder the effectiveness of the rays. Overall, I don't feel the stats as given are overpowered at low-tier.
Is it bad that I read this title as "Fury of the Road"?
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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Separate question. The map found indicates a Jistka city along the west side of the Napsune mountains, but the map in inner sea world guide shows those mountains as the western border of Jistka's height. Are we discovering a new city out of their known range or should the city bemail moved to the east of the mountains?
Any advice on what bonuses to give someone who's an actual hellknight prestige class?
The only bonus that wouldn't really be contested by anyone would be the normal +2/-2 circumstance bonus/penalty that is allowed by the rules. Anything else probably needs to be in the module. I'd certainly allow skill checks to gain info on the hellknight factions, though. That should help.
The map found indicates a Jistka city along the west side of the Napsune mountains, but the map in inner sea world guide shows those mountains as the western border of Jistka's height.
I'd almost certainly stick with the module, even if it's wrong. The reason for this is that we're supposed to all provide essentially the same game to everyone, so they all the same experience. I'd not correct the module unless the author or someone official posted here. (Having said that, would it change anything, really? You can probably move it and have no material effect.)
3) Does applying the young template to the retriever modify to damage of his eye rays?I'm running this at Origins next week and was wondering the same thing about the eye rays on low tier.
The "quick" version of the young template says "+2 to all Dex-based rolls, –2 on all other rolls, –2 hp/HD." I'd say that rolling for damage absolutely qualifies as "other rolls," and therefore must have the -2, if you're using the "quick" rules for the young template. So 12d6-2. Not great, but any nerf is welcome for the young template.
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OK, this post is mostly for myself, though others are welcome to use it. I'll come back to this forum at some point to look up how to run this module and I'll need this.
This is mostly written because a group of friends just ran through this module with me, and it was an utter cakewalk at high tier. Like, the BBEG was dead after it got off just one attack. The morlock elevator fight was hand-waved because we couldn't be challenged by CR 2 monsters. It's an epic scene, and it was hand-waved! I want to try to get back to making this awesome. So here we go.
What I think many GMs miss is that they cannot use the generic retriever stat block printed in the module. That's the stat block for a normal retriever (or maybe a weird, broken/early version of a normal+advanced creature). Since the top of that listing says to make it an advanced retriever, it has to be hand-modified to use these rules.
Not only that, but according to this thread the advanced template can be stronger or weaker depending on whether you use the quick or rebuild rules. (Usually they work out the same, but when you have a creature with a dash for an ability score, the quick rules will give a bigger boost.)
So, I built the advanced retriever stat block using the "quick" rules for the advanced template (with changes in red). This starts to bring the BBEG back in line with a level 10 or 11 party. AC to 29, attacks at +21. That might even hit the AC 35 that some fighters seem to have at level 11.
In addition, here is something I wrote about this monster in another thread:
The final fight is much more likely to end quickly and badly for the enemy, because it appears to be nothing more than a melee combat monster that can't last long. However, if I were in your shoes, I would hunt for any advantage, and find it: the monster has only normal movement options listed (walking -- no climbing or flying) until you look in the notes at the bottom, where it mentions it has permanent Spider's Climb and Water Walk. They could have mentioned that up where movement was! OK, let's put the giant spider out on the water and enjoy that tank PC drowning in his heavy armor. If the PC gains a water speed, get the spider climbing up walls. The idea is to stay at range and shoot the monster's eye rays. AND, don't bother with the petrification ray, which has a fortitude save -- your fighter has amazing fort saves and will laugh that off. However, his reflex might be a little worse, so blasting him with a few 12d6 lightning bolts might whittle him down, even if he makes the save. And use that monster's 15' reach to get your AOO when the fight finally does come to blows!
Lastly, a sad note that I've never seen a GM use, but they should by the rules: the entire bridge to the monster's location is only 10' wide; too narrow for the monster to walk on easily, even with Spider Climb. This means that if you have the monster rush out to fight, it may suffer from the squeezing rules! Keep that retriever on the wider platforms, or drop it on top of the water, and have it blast apart the bridge or platforms. That gives it free movement, and forces the PCs to not ignore it.
EDIT: Whoa. Just found in the module that the raised platforms are merely as strong as doors: "treat the planks and platform as a strong wooden door for the purposes of determining hardness and hit points." That's just hardness 5, HP 20! If the retriever drops to walk on water and blasts the platform, big huge chunks should be falling away from every hit. With just 2 or 3 hits, it should be able to collapse at least part of the walkway. If it can topple all the tied up victims into the water, this becomes a whole new ballgame.
General rules for all morlocks:
- All morlocks get a Leap Attack which blocks AOO. They have such high bonuses that they cannot fail even on a natural 1, assuming they get a running start. The barbarian morlocks have a raging leap that means they don't even need the running start, and can jump much farther (20' on a natural 1, 25' on a 4+). This means that they should always leap to engage -- 10' leaps for the crappy morlocks, and 20' leaps for the barbarian morlocks. This gets them past anyone with a reach weapon.
- Their swarming ability gives them a flank if they share squares. They can leap into shared squares, and have their attacks trigger on landing. This means they can safely leap into formation around a character, with at least some getting the +2 flank/sneak bonuses.
- Like any other low-level critter/mob, they can use Aid Another to give each other boosts. If you have 8 arrayed around a PC (with 2 per square), you can have the initial leapers simply leap into position and perform Aid Another (hit AC 10 = give a +2 to attack to one ally). Then the follow-up leapers can leap into shared squares, getting +2 for flank and +2 for Aid Another.
Don't forget that Aid Another can stack. So if you are fighting a PC with an AC of 35, even a single Aid Another might not help enough. In that case, you might have 6 of the 8 leapers do Aid Another. The 2 remaining leapers are now at +2 from flank, and +6 from Aid Another, for a total of +8. This is on top of the normal bonuses (+11 for barbarians, +5 for normal morlocks). At +19, a barbarian morlock hits AC 35 on a roll of 16 or more. That's not great, but it's a start. It might help to focus on a character that doesn't have crazy AC.
The goal with morlocks should be to overwhelm at least 1 PC and try to turn the action economy in their favor. Morlocks know what spellcasters are (there are some morlock spellcasters in the module) so it's reasonable for them to identify the spellcaster as a target that is super dangerous and also super easy to hit.
The elevator/lift in particular
For the elevator encounter, there are so many things happening that it's important to add events into the initiative as if they were actual creatures. My thoughts:
- Top of the initiative order (because it says so): put the Elevator itself. Each time, if even a single morlock is attached, roll on the action chart on page 11, and see what happens. Yes, this means that on round 1 there is no action, as no morlock is yet attached. Also, on a roll of 5+ the chart requires that all spellcasters make a concentration check to successfully cast their spells (DC 15 + spell level)!
- Bottom of the initiative order (module doesn't dictate this, but you don't want to put this on the initiative of the person controlling the brake, as that person may let another PC take a turn, so the effect will jump around if you attach it to a PC): the damage roll that comes from not braking, as per page 12.
- The denouement (for this sequence): whether the elevator brakes and stops (column 1, page 12) or the cable snaps and the elevator falls (column 2, page 12) there is almost always damage to the PCs. The end of the ride is the biggest danger. There are 4 conditions with 4 different resolutions: 1) they kill/repel all morlocks and safely brake, no damage; 2) they don't kill/repel all morlocks but safely brake, take 1d6 damage for every 4 morlocks still weighing down the lift, alive or dead; 3) they kill/repel all morlocks but the cable snaps, take 3d6 or 6d6 falling damage; 4) they don't kill/repel all morlocks AND the cable snaps, take 3d6 or 6d6 falling damage plus the 1d6 damage penalty for every 4 morlocks still on the lift.
Also, from page 12: "The morlocks automatically make their Acrobatics checks." Presumably only for the elevator sequence, but holy cow! They cannot fail to engage, cannot fail to balance, and cannot fail to leap in, avoiding AOO. They would be unstoppable if they had any AC, HP or attacks that could hit.