I am attempting to make a Dragoon, based of the Final Fantasy version of a Dragoon not the 17th and 18th century real ones, for a game I am in. I have been looking at a few ways to do it and I would like some input.
Their main attack is jumping high into the air and doing ludicrous amounts of damage when they hit the enemy. The dealing ludicrous amounts of damage isn't to hard to do with a few feats from a few different books. The reliably jumping high into the air is what I am having most trouble with.
so far this is what I have for the character.
Classes that I have looked into using
Scout (Complete Adventurer) (for fast movement and skills)
Fighter (for feats)
Prestige class
Vassal of Bahamut (book of exalted deeds, for awesome dragony stuff and armor)
Feats that are for sure going to be used
Feats
Battle Jump(Unapproachable East, Forgotten Relms)- dropping from at least 5 ft above an enemy, but no more then 30ft above an enemy, counts as a charge and deals x2 weapon damage (also benefits for trip and grapple but I am not focusing on that)
Leap of the Heavens (Players Handbook 2)- does not double jump check if you dont go 20ft before jump adds +5 competence bonus if you do go 20ft
Power Attack (Players Handbook)- pre req (and a Dang good feat)
Leap Attack (Complete Adventure)- combine jump and charge, if 10 horizontal feet are covered deal triple power attack damage.
I want to make this a human character, what would be the easiest way to be able to jump high enough to make these feats work together? A few ideas I had were
Psionic Warrior- for Up the Walls and Speed of Though but I dont really want to multiclass that much and I know some DMs dont like psionics. (also up the walls is dependent on there being a wall near by...)
Wizard/Sorcerer spell Jump- adds +10, +20, or +30 to jump depending on spell level, just cant think of an easy way to get this and I dont want to be cripple if seperated from my gear (i.e. if I had boots of jump and they got destroyed/stolen)
Teleport- rather then jumping into the air use teleport? but then leap attack would be a moot point, unless teleporting is like in portal where your forward momentum is preserved...
well now that you have all seen my ideas any ideas back would be appreaciated :)
You can get Jump from the Assassin prestige class at your first level.
You will be 9th level at that point, but only a 1st level spell caster, so take the Practiced Spellcaster feat with it to raise your caster level by +4 to 5, which will give you the +20 ft jump you want.
If you want to pimp it further to get the +30, the Gifted Adpet Trait from Pathfinder will give you a +1 to a specific spell, and you of course choose Jump. The Magical Knack Trait from Pathfinder will give you a +2 to caster level to all your spells, so long as it doesn't take you over your hit dice. (It doesn't.) Finally, take Spell Thematics with "Jump" as your designated thematic spell as well. The Arcane Thesis feat will also give you a +2.
That gives you a 9th level character who will be able to cast Jump as a 9th level character without being a pure spellcaster.
If you have some bucks for magic, get a Ring of Wizardry for 1st level spells and a pearl of power for 1st level spells as well. That will let you.
Anyway, here's the breakdown:
Magical Knack trait +2
Gifted Adept trait +1
Spell Thematics +1
Arcane Thesis +2
Practiced Spellcaster +4
It depends on the GM whether Magical Knack can stack with Practiced Spellcaster, but if it can, you could conceivably find a way to get your jumping up to 30 ft well before being 9th level.
I am attempting to make a Dragoon, based of the Final Fantasy version of a Dragoon not the 17th and 18th century real ones, for a game I am in. I have been looking at a few ways to do it and I would like some input.
Their main attack is jumping high into the air and doing ludicrous amounts of damage when they hit the enemy. The dealing ludicrous amounts of damage isn't to hard to do with a few feats from a few different books. The reliably jumping high into the air is what I am having most trouble with.
so far this is what I have for the character.
Classes that I have looked into using
Scout (Complete Adventurer) (for fast movement and skills)
Fighter (for feats)Prestige class
Vassal of Bahamut (book of exalted deeds, for awesome dragony stuff and armor)Feats that are for sure going to be used
Feats
Battle Jump(Unapproachable East, Forgotten Relms)- dropping from at least 5 ft above an enemy, but no more then 30ft above an enemy, counts as a charge and deals x2 weapon damage (also benefits for trip and grapple but I am not focusing on that)
Leap of the Heavens (Players Handbook 2)- does not double jump check if you dont go 20ft before jump adds +5 competence bonus if you do go 20ft
Power Attack (Players Handbook)- pre req (and a Dang good feat)
Leap Attack (Complete Adventure)- combine jump and charge, if 10 horizontal feet are covered deal triple power attack damage.I want to make this a human character, what would be the easiest way to be able to jump high enough to make these feats work together? A few ideas I had were
Psionic Warrior- for Up the Walls and Speed of Though but I dont really want to multiclass that much and I know some DMs dont like psionics. (also up the walls is dependent on there being a wall near by...)
Wizard/Sorcerer spell Jump- adds +10, +20, or +30 to jump depending on spell level, just cant think of an easy way to get this and I dont want to be cripple if seperated from my gear (i.e. if I had boots of jump and they got destroyed/stolen)
Teleport-...
Kinda seems a little out there... but the Pathfinder Monk can jump reliably and extremely well. By 5th level the Monk has Fast Movement and gets the High Jump class feature that allows "running leaps" from standing still as well asyour monk bonus on your acrobatics check to make the jump. You can also spend a ki point to get a +20 on your acrobatics for a jump for 1 round! High movement speed also gives a bonus to a jump. The Pathfinder Monk is also proficient in the use of spears and short spears.
A breakdown...
High Jump: Jump as if running, class level on acrobatics/jump, spend ki point to get +20 on jump for 1 round
Fast Movement: +4 (Acrobatics/Jump) for each 10 feet over base 30.
5 Ranks Acrobatics...
Using all these you'd have a +34 on your jump.
Hum, very good way to do it using jump. would eat up quite a few feat slots though... since I would have to qualify for assassin as well as get all those spell boosting feats. still all in all I applaud your idea since I would never have thought of it
So far it looks like the easiest way is to use psionics up the walls feat, that would get it at an early level but I dont want to have to rely on always being around a wall to be able to "get the jump" on something
Another thing that I was thinking was to get a Wyvern mount and just unleash my first attack by jumping off of it but then I would be relying on my mount instead of a magic item and if I wanted to do it more then once would have to retreat from battle, get back on, get high enough, and then jump off again, far too much work in my option. :/
@Lokie I didnt even think of using a pathfinder monk, ill have to look into that.
Hum, very good way to do it using jump. would eat up quite a few feat slots though... since I would have to qualify for assassin as well as get all those spell boosting feats. still all in all I applaud your idea since I would never have thought of it
So far it looks like the easiest way is to use psionics up the walls feat, that would get it at an early level but I dont want to have to rely on always being around a wall to be able to "get the jump" on something
Another thing that I was thinking was to get a Wyvern mount and just unleash my first attack by jumping off of it but then I would be relying on my mount instead of a magic item and if I wanted to do it more then once would have to retreat from battle, get back on, get high enough, and then jump off again, far too much work in my option. :/
@Lokie I didnt even think of using a pathfinder monk, ill have to look into that.
Its worth a look as the class gives you your jumping ability as a class feature. That'd free up your feats for Power Attack and the like.
You might toss a level of Arcane Bloodline Sorcerer in for the Jump spell or True Strike for high ac targets, and the Arcane Bond for your weapon. It'll give you a free masterwork spear!
Something else I just thought of...
Your range from your jumps is inherently limited by your movement speed so having a higher movement speed also increases the distance you can jump.
A four foot high jump is a DC 16, 5 feet DC 20, 6 feet DC 24... and so on. This means you'd have a jump DC of 40 just to achieve 10 feet.
A Sorcerer 1/Monk 5 could get a bonus of +44 on a jump before any bonus from feats, provided an active jump spell and a spent ki point.
Skill focus could increase that to +47, with Acrobatic it'd be +49.
On the roll of a natural 20 you'd be looking at a total of 69 on a acrobatics/jump check. That'd be 40 feet horizontal (max move) or 17 feet vertical.
Wow, the monk would work incredibly well for this build. It has a lot of superfluous stuff that I wouldn't need but its increased speed and jumping ability is even better then the Scout.
The only problem is that I see is more of a roleplaying one since Dragoons wear Breastplate armor and Monks wear none :/
Leap Attack (Complete Adventure)- combine jump and charge, if 10 horizontal feet are covered deal triple power attack damage.Teleport-...
Leap Attack was errated down to 100%.
Page 110: Leap Attack
The second sentence of the Benefit paragraph should
read as follows:
If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump, and you end your jump in a square from which you threaten your target, you deal +100% the normal bonus damage from your use of the Power Attack feat.
It is still not a bad feat though. IIRC the boots of springing and striding add to your jump checks.
Ok, so if I was to take a level of sorcerer and then start going for monk how could I make up the lower BAB progression?
Ok, so if I was to take a level of sorcerer and then start going for monk how could I make up the lower BAB progression?
Move over to fighter or some other Full BAB class.
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This has to me been the biggest want out of ANY supplement since I started playing D&D. Even if it is a base class or even a prestige class I really want to see a class that uses jumps, and to a lesser extent any kind of acrobatic maneuvers to flair up extra damage and Dragoon is perfect for this.
A lightly armored, 3/4 BAB character that focuses on combat maneuvers and skill tricks like the very jump attack we are talking about. Give them cool ways to tumble and let them add CON to damage rolls even maybe(?). This is something that I could DEFINITELY get behind for Ultimate Combat.
Ok, so if I was to take a level of sorcerer and then start going for monk how could I make up the lower BAB progression?
The loss of BAB is mostly mitigated because you'll be shooting for both a height advantage as well as a "downward" charge giving you plenty of bonuses. You'll be making single attacks, but if you decide to make multiple attacks you could just flurry at "full" BAB. For HIGH AC targets you can prep using True Strike.
You'll be a skirmisher and will most likely take out enemy targets that could pose a threat to the entire party. (Leave the higher ac targets to the party tank at first.) Because of your jumping ability you can easily set up a flank. Perhaps take a feat to help increase your bonus to hit from flanking.
You'll also want to focus on a decent strength score to help increase both damage and to hit.
There are advantages to sticking with Monk till 12th level, as you'd pick up Abundant Step and could dimension door for even greater height across a greater distance as well as getting a +40 to base speed. However... if Monk does not suit you, going into Fighter after 6th level would work.
Wow, the monk would work incredibly well for this build. It has a lot of superfluous stuff that I wouldn't need but its increased speed and jumping ability is even better then the Scout.
The only problem is that I see is more of a roleplaying one since Dragoons wear Breastplate armor and Monks wear none :/
Mage Armor could be cast to replace your armor. If your DM is nice, you can describe the Mage Armor to look like a "magical" breastplate.
Another thought...
While it might be nice to pick up a level of Wizard or Sorcerer for the Arcane Bond and Jump spell you can already make incredible leaps without it.
I just caught something wrong with my math. I forgot to account for the "Class Skill" bonus on acrobatics. So that should be a +37 on acrobatics/jump. (5 Ranks, +3 class skill, +5 class level, +4 high movement, +20 ki point) Skill focus in acrobatics would make that a +40, which would guarantee you at least 10 feet of height before you even roll.
I made this a little while back as a Cavalier character option. May want to add acrobatics to the list of class skills
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/houseRules/archives/cavaleirAndBarbarianOptionsPeach&page=1#2
For those to lazy to click a link...
Dragoon [revision]
Dragoons are cavaliers that Do not have the mounted combat training and instead condensate on powerful ground tactics and Hand to hand pole arm combat.
Dragoon Training (Ex): The dragoon Is well trained with Shafted weapons and Leaping as a means to maneuver about an often chaotic and cluttered battlefield. At 1st level the Dragoon is able to deliver additional precision based damage. This damage is equal to 1/2 the characters Cavalier levels (1 minimum) and is only viable with shafted piercing melee weapons which Include the javelin, lance, long spear, short spear, spear, and trident. In addition the Dragoon receives a bonus to all jump based acrobatics checks Equal to 1/2 their Cavalier levels. This replace the Cavaliers mount.
Dragoon Leap (ex): At 3rd level the dragoon May, As a charge attack, make a leaping strike with a Lance putting all his weight behind it. Allowing the dragoon to Behave as if mounted with regards to attacks with shafted piercing Melee weapons even though she is not mounted. In addition she gains an additional +2 to hit when charging. This replaces Cavaliers Charge.
Mighty Dragoon Leap (Ex): At 11th level, a cavalier learns to make devastating charge attacks. Double the threat range of any weapons wielded during a charge. This increase does not stack with other effects that increase the threat range of the weapon. In addition, the cavalier can make a free bull rush, disarm, sunder, or trip combat maneuver if his charge attack is successful. This free combat maneuver does not provoke an attack of opportunity. This replaces Mighty charge.
Supreme Dragoon Leap (Ex): At 20th level, whenever the cavalier makes a charge attack, he deals double the normal amount of damage (or triple if using a lance). In addition, if the cavalier confirms a critical hit on a charge attack with a shafted weapon (as described above), the target is stunned for 1d4 rounds. A Will save reduces this to staggered for 1d4 rounds. The DC is equal to 10 + the cavalier’s base attack bonus.
Thanks for all the help guys, I have trolled multiple web boards and looked through all my books multiple times looking for feats/spells to help me make this class but I hadnt even though of some of these things. Keep the ideas coming!
Keep in mind, iirc, your jump distance cant exceed your base move...
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Keep in mind, iirc, your jump distance cant exceed your base move...
Sure it can, you just can't move more than that in a single round. If you have a 30 foot move speed and you jump 180 feet, it just takes 6 rounds for you to cover that distance. This also helps protect the FF feel.
Unless, of course, the Pathfinderization removed that particular caveat.
"No jump can allow you to exceed your maximum movement for the round"
Sorry :(
Although I suppose your maximum movement could mean base move x 4 for running...
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I think that sentence is ambiguous enough that could be interpreted as "I'm not exceeding my maximum movement for the round, I'm just waiting for my next turn to complete my jump."
At any rate, its not really that important, just something that used to be commonly used for Dragoon builds back in the day.
Well using the feat progression that I have I could use 2 move actions and an attack action since "...when dropping from more then 5ft above the enemy counts as a charge..." and when you declare a charge you can move your full move action in a straight line and attack. at lower levels this would mean I could move 60ft and attack, and once getting fast movement and the like this could increase to 80+ ft.
At least that is how I have been interpreting it, feel free to tell me if I am wrong.
also I know that forward jumping movement counts as part of movement in a charge, what about up down movement? Would I have to plot out a parabolic course for my jump and find out exactly how far I have traveled every time I jump or is it a moot point?
When making a long jump, you attain a height of half the distance you travel. If you jump 30 feet across a chasm, at the apex you've got 15 feet of height.
In short, for long jumps, the curve is already factored in. I don't know how that's supposed to relate to high jumps, though.
Although it is not in the rules, perhaps you could use the reverse. For example on a High Jump you can travel no more than half the total distance in height achieved?
Hum, I think I would rather just roll two separate jump checks, one to see height obtained and one for distance
also obtaining a height of half the distance you travel makes no sense because to obtain a 10ft high jump the DC is 40 yet to make a 30ft long jump the DC is only 30 AND you obtain a height higher then your high jump would be? they should either lower the DC of high jump or change the way the long jump works to fix that.
When making a long jump, you attain a height of half the distance you travel. If you jump 30 feet across a chasm, at the apex you've got 15 feet of height.
In short, for long jumps, the curve is already factored in. I don't know how that's supposed to relate to high jumps, though.
Thats from the rules? that hardly makes sense considering that to make a 10ft high jump the DC is 40 and with a 30ft long jump the DC is only 30 yet you obtain a higher height...
This may be totally off base, but if you haven't looked at the thri-kreen as a race possibility... Those suckers get like a +20 racial bonus on jump checks.
Race aside, I would suggest some sort of "living artillery" theme here. They run, leap into combat, make their attack, and if they hit/kill/[execute X trigger] then they get to make a whirlwind attack from the square they land in, maybe once a day or so. Alternatively, the attack may have some sort of shockwave effect that is similar to the rage power that breaks up the ground. This will offset the hit/miss single-target combat and force enemies to break up.
High jump DCs are ridiculous, though. I understand it's supposed to loosely simulate physics, but maybe your DM would be willing to work with you on that. Perhaps a custom magic item or a class ability...
You're on the right track with the feats presented, though.
Bump
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Thats from the rules? that hardly makes sense considering that to make a 10ft high jump the DC is 40 and with a 30ft long jump the DC is only 30 yet you obtain a higher height...When making a long jump, you attain a height of half the distance you travel. If you jump 30 feet across a chasm, at the apex you've got 15 feet of height.
In short, for long jumps, the curve is already factored in. I don't know how that's supposed to relate to high jumps, though.
Once again, I'm working from 3rd ed knowledge here. That particular clause isn't in the description of Acrobatics, but it WAS in the description of Jump.
And there's a lot of things that don't make sense. Like the fact that nothing expressly forbids a Horse from climbing a tree. If they felt like it, they could climb a tree at +3 at a speed of 12.5 feet per round.
So, I was playing FF Tactics when I got home from work the other day (This is the game I am trying to base my Dragoon off of) and I noticed a few things I had forgotten about.
1. Dragoons can use their Spear to attack one or two spaces away, something that can fixed with Short Haft feat
2. Dragoons use the spear as a one handed weapon, they have a shield on their other arm. So I was wondering, is there a feat anywhere that allows you to learn to use a two-handed weapon in one hand? I found Monkey Grip that allows you to use larger weapons, but then all I would be able to use is a large short spear which would act as a long spear but I would be able to use it in one hand. However I was hopeing to use a Guisarm or a something equally as interesting that had reach. This of course isnt an absolute must for the class, I am just trying to keep as close to my source idea as possible
So, I was playing FF Tactics when I got home from work the other day (This is the game I am trying to base my Dragoon off of) and I noticed a few things I had forgotten about.
1. Dragoons can use their Spear to attack one or two spaces away, something that can fixed with Short Haft feat
2. Dragoons use the spear as a one handed weapon, they have a shield on their other arm. So I was wondering, is there a feat anywhere that allows you to learn to use a two-handed weapon in one hand? I found Monkey Grip that allows you to use larger weapons, but then all I would be able to use is a large short spear which would act as a long spear but I would be able to use it in one hand. However I was hopeing to use a Guisarm or a something equally as interesting that had reach. This of course isnt an absolute must for the class, I am just trying to keep as close to my source idea as possible
Take a look at the "Spear Fighter" archetype in the APG.
Maybe mix that up a bit with monk.|
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Take a look at the "Spear Fighter" archetype in the APG.
Maybe mix that up a bit with monk.
Phalanx Fighter, actually. The Spartan archetype. at 3rd level they get the ability to use a spear in one hand and a shield in the other. The Polearm Master archetype has some good stuff for Dragoons, as well as the Mobile Fighter archetype. Maybe we could just blend them all together to come up with a good Dragoon archetype.
Phalanx Fighter, actually. The Spartan archetype. at 3rd level they get the ability to use a spear in one hand and a shield in the other. The Polearm Master archetype has some good stuff for Dragoons, as well as the Mobile Fighter archetype. Maybe we could just blend them all together to come up with a good Dragoon archetype.Take a look at the "Spear Fighter" archetype in the APG.
Maybe mix that up a bit with monk.
Ahh yes, that's the one I meant, TY!
Well, looks like that is the ONLY way to get it unless a DM would house rule in a feat that did the same thing...
So I would have to invest in at the very least 3 levels of fighter
and I think I would use monk instead of Scout for my other character levels, even though the extra skirmish damage for movement fits the character idea he already does stupid amounts of damage without it (monk will also help my will save from being extremely low).
I will probably end up taking levels of the Vassal of Bahamut as well to finish him up.
Well, looks like that is the ONLY way to get it unless a DM would house rule in a feat that did the same thing...
So I would have to invest in at the very least 3 levels of fighter
and I think I would use monk instead of Scout for my other character levels, even though the extra skirmish damage for movement fits the character idea he already does stupid amounts of damage without it (monk will also help my will save from being extremely low).
I will probably end up taking levels of the Vassal of Bahamut as well to finish him up.
Just as an FYI - a while back the whole "how do we make spartans?" thing came up and there was a pretty nice, and simple house rule that allowed it:
*Character Classes with All Martial Weapons had the ability to wield a spear 1-handed as a "Martial" weapon.
*Other character classes treated it as a 2-handed weapon.
It was very simple, and fully granted for no additional investment of feats, or any other resource. I like it best.
Now, for another feat, I would posit that creating a feat of say, "Exotic Weapon Proficiency: 1-handed spear" would function for using a spear 1-handed.
Just some more thoughts for you ...