I am interested in hearing from you, the head developer guy. From the horse's mouth, so to speak.
I am interested in hearing from you, the head developer guy. From the horse's mouth, so to speak.
.
.....
....
.....
He'll be here to indulge your every need in a few mintues. I can literally hear him dropping everything to accomidate you. He's on his way right now. Hold that thought! You are well worth the time and attention!
Pop in, leaves basket of tribbles and a face hugger in the thread and leaves
just a reminder: developer staff answering our questions and listening to our requests is an extraordinary thing, it's a free volunteering service to their community, us.
They are by no means bound to do that. I mean did you expect the same thing from WOTC to explain why some classes had some things that were quite powerful, or not powerful enough?
Plus, on a more constructive not, another paizo-staff-member said in a magus forum that they don't want to give too many input about the magus in the forums, they mainly read and develop. And I'm 100% fine with that.
Still, best of luck.
I know I'll regret this, but stop into the Chat Room tomorrow night, after 8 pm PDT, and you'll be able to ask some of the fine folks at Paizo questions, unless it's a game night.
I know I'll regret this, but stop into the Chat Room tomorrow night, after 8 pm PDT, and you'll be able to ask some of the fine folks at Paizo questions, unless it's a game night.
There's a chat room..
o_o!?!?
I get a kick out of posts like this. I am not gonna attempt to speak for anyone, but I think the Magus does not warrant a full BAB because that is not his role. The Magus is a character who wields both martial and arcane might equally, not superiorly to the Fighter or the Wizard/Sorcerer. I assume that if the Magus did have a full BAB it would be a character that stole and hogged the spotlight from every martial character out there. Seriously, why would anyone play a fighter, when you could have a full BAB caster. Its simply not balanced.
That being said, if you and your DM agree on such a concept, create or modify a class to meet this niche. DnD is, and should be, a creative process, and home games should include house rules, and special races and classes that meet the needs of those at the table. Bottom line if its fun for the group do it. If having a character with a full BAB, 9th level spell casting capabilities, two good saves, and named Muchkin Munchkinson is what is fun for a table and group of players, then I am all for it. In contrast, my group sometimes likes playing kids with NPC levels for the initial campaign to set up comradeship and a history for setting buy in. In fact, for CoTCT all my players worked for Lamm as kids and we role-played this, of course the PCs soon grew to hate Lamm, and this worked to set the tone of the impending game. Long story short, once you buy the rulebooks, if there is something you want in your home game, do it... I bet that's what all the DMs at Paizo do, they create.
In short if this is what YOU want you do not need Jason's permission, nor does he need to come and provide you with his reasoning.
But thankfully, and luckily, Jason often does provide feedback to all of us fans that adore Pathfinder, for better, or worse. And, that is why Paizo rocks!
Director of Games
|
While its true that I do not need to provide my reasoning behind every decision, unless your name happens to be Erik Mona or Lisa Stevens, as Lead Designer, I do have a fair amount of leeway in making the game.
That said, this issue keeps coming up.
This book is called Ultimate Magic, and while I am building a class that has a martial bent to it, it still must serve as a magic focused class first and foremost. To this end, the decision was made to make the class with a 3/4 progression. This gives us much more room in adding other cool powers and abilities to the class. Now you might argue, and in some cases rightly so, that we have not taken full advantage of that room, but that is why we playtest.
The next iteration will explore some more of that room and I think you will find the 3/4 a bit more justified.
Just some random musings at midnight.. back to working on Words of Power for me.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
And.. for anyone else reading this thread. Lets stop making threats that start by calling me out by name. I read all the threads in these forums.
Jason
Have you tried our new 7-step Fist Shaking Plan?
Actully Jason picked all the words from bee gees songs.
I do believe that Jason needs a group hug for enduring the content of this thread.
Regards,
RuemerePS. *hug*
I think Jason needs a Keg really.
I always liked Bourbon over Jack, but that'll do
And.. for anyone else reading this thread. Lets stop making threats that start by calling me out by name. I read all the threads in these forums. No need to be so blunt.
Jason
+1
And in any case, with a good spell reservoir, arcane accuracy and Arcane weapon should be able to suffice for supplementing the Magus' hit-rate. Furthermore, it feels more in keeping with the character concept that the Magus is actually weaker in combat without magic, and thus supplements that by using magic to fight. Arcane weapon embodies that nicely, with arcane accuracy being the occasional booster, along with other tricks. The problem with the Magus at the moment is that with the number of spells he has, those tricks are far less than occasional. This is precisely why in most evaluations thus far, the Magus performs incredibly in 1-shots and short encounters, but poorly when players feel compelled to "save up" their precious spells.
|
Director of Games
|
And in any case, with a good spell reservoir, arcane accuracy and Arcane weapon should be able to suffice for supplementing the Magus' hit-rate. Furthermore, it feels more in keeping with the character concept that the Magus is actually weaker in combat without magic, and thus supplements that by using magic to fight. Arcane weapon embodies that nicely, with arcane accuracy being the occasional booster, along with other tricks. The problem with the Magus at the moment is that with the number of spells he has, those tricks are far less than occasional. This is precisely why in most evaluations thus far, the Magus performs incredibly in 1-shots and short encounters, but poorly when players feel compelled to "save up" their precious spells.
Quite observant sir. I have come to a similar conclusion and future changes to the class will alleviate this problem.
Jason
BLLURGH ... JASON ... WHAT IS MONA'S SOCKS SIZE ... ANSWER ... NOOOOOW !!!! MURRRRAAAAAGH !
The next iteration will explore some more of that room and I think you will find the 3/4 a bit more justified.
Quite observant sir. I have come to a similar conclusion and future changes to the class will alleviate this problem.
So.... should we take these posts to mean that there will be a second playtest version of the magus, possibly once the Words of Power playtest period is over?
I was getting concerned about all the back and forth and tone on the message boards about the Magus.
The fact that you (Jason) stepped in and provided insight is just above and beyond the call of duty!
You sir have all my respect!
Can't wait for more chances to playtest your creations.
+1!
...of Jack.
Clearly it should be Goldschlager.
A common thread in a lot of the playtest discussions seems to be that the Magus seems lackluster at low levels but stacks up better later on. I'm not sure what a good way to address that without making it too attractive of a dip class would be, though.
...of Jack.Clearly it should be Goldschlager.
A common thread in a lot of the playtest discussions seems to be that the Magus seems lackluster at low levels but stacks up better later on. I'm not sure what a good way to address that without making it too attractive of a dip class would be, though.
It can't be a dip class for reasons already identified in the class itself. Half of the class' attractive features are not worthwhile outside the class itself - Spell Strike, Spell Combat, and casting in light armor. The only other features require too significant a "dip" to be worthwhile.
Note: I say this because there is an arcana you have to take to allow a multiclassed Magus to use just Spell Strike and Spell Combat with other class' spells. If not explicitly stated in those abilities that they can only be used with Magus spells, it should be.
And.. for anyone else reading this thread. Lets stop making threats that start by calling me out by name. I read all the threads in these forums. No need to be so blunt.
Jason
Hey, folks were doing this for poor Dr. Jacobs and it led to a massive, ongoing "joke-post." Don't you want your own massive, ongoing "joke-post"? :-)
It can't be a dip class for reasons already identified in the class itself. Half of the class' attractive features are not worthwhile outside the class itself - Spell Strike, Spell Combat, and casting in light armor. The only other features require too significant a "dip" to be worthwhile.
As it stands currently, I agree with you completely.
I'm suggesting that the class might need a bit more than it has right now at very low levels, and that I wasn't sure I saw a good way to do that without turning it into an attractive dip class.
Does that make sense?
I would say it needs its power level moved down so that it is even. But alot of abilities and things need full overhauls so there is no point speculating until Round 2
Hey, folks were doing this for poor Dr. Jacobs and it led to a massive, ongoing "joke-post." Don't you want your own massive, ongoing "joke-post"? :-)No thanks.. too busy.
Jason
yeah... that Jacobs. Such a slacker.
I applaud you, Jason. Taking an official stance opens you up to disappointing someone. I do not envy you.
Lets stop making threats that start by calling me out by name.
You received threats? O_o
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume he meant 'threads'. At least, I hope he meant 'threads'.
It was after midnight when Jason posted, so yeah I was guessing it was meant to be threads.
"I am going to go out on a limb here and assume he meant 'threads'. At least, I hope he meant 'threads'."
Well, I did kind of imply that I would dissolve his puny village if the Magus wasn't full BAB, 9th level spells (from all lists, of course), all good saves, 10 skill points per level, and limited to dragons only. But it was more of a promise then a threat.
|
"I am going to go out on a limb here and assume he meant 'threads'. At least, I hope he meant 'threads'."
Well, I did kind of imply that I would dissolve his puny village if the Magus wasn't full BAB, 9th level spells (from all lists, of course), all good saves, 10 skill points per level, and limited to dragons only. But it was more of a promise then a threat.
You forgot the d20 HD!
What was that class called, the Lightning Warrior? And it wasn't overpowered because it didn't get a familiar?
What was that class called, the Lightning Warrior? And it wasn't overpowered because it didn't get a familiar?
To be fair, it couldn't specialize either...!
Just hoping to catch Jason looking at this thread in order to direct him to the other thread that I directed at him specifically. Whenever you get the time, I'd like you to take a look at that thread. Contains some suggestions that you might like while keeping the basic skeleton and flavor of your class.
I did mean threads, not threats. I have fixed that.
Jason
I know. Just messing with you. :)
<-- Is not overtly pedantic about spelling and grammar, but can't help himself when they're funny typos.
Lets stop making threats that start by calling me out by name.
Jason
Well then. I did not know you posted that. So I apologize for making a thread that called you out by name as well.
While its true that I do not need to provide my reasoning behind every decision, unless your name happens to be Erik Mona or Lisa Stevens, as Lead Designer, I do have a fair amount of leeway in making the game.
That said, this issue keeps coming up.
This book is called Ultimate Magic, and while I am building a class that has a martial bent to it, it still must serve as a magic focused class first and foremost. To this end, the decision was made to make the class with a 3/4 progression. This gives us much more room in adding other cool powers and abilities to the class. Now you might argue, and in some cases rightly so, that we have not taken full advantage of that room, but that is why we playtest.
The next iteration will explore some more of that room and I think you will find the 3/4 a bit more justified.
Just some random musings at midnight.. back to working on Words of Power for me.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
No offense, but I have to question if the class your describing is needed or wanted, I can't help but think we have already seen enough classes (bard, summoner, alchemist, eldritch knight, arcane archer, inquisitor) that do exactly what your trying to do again with another class. While a class I would like to see a hexblade like martial class with secondary arcane abilities like a arcane paladin isn't necessary.
Edit: Sorry re-reading my post it comes of as whiny. Your the designer not me, I just don't like this particular design.
I do believe that Jason needs a group hug for enduring the content of this thread.
Regards,
RuemerePS. *hug*
All the Magus threads really...since there's only 1 class to playtest instead of 6, it's getting that 6 exponentially multiplied it seems. everyone is focused on this ONE playtest item.
Perhaps to make them more MAGE than FTR, give them up to 9th level spells, but they only get access to 9th level spells at level 20.
While its true that I do not need to provide my reasoning behind every decision, unless your name happens to be Erik Mona or Lisa Stevens, as Lead Designer, I do have a fair amount of leeway in making the game.
That said, this issue keeps coming up.
This book is called Ultimate Magic, and while I am building a class that has a martial bent to it, it still must serve as a magic focused class first and foremost. To this end, the decision was made to make the class with a 3/4 progression. This gives us much more room in adding other cool powers and abilities to the class. Now you might argue, and in some cases rightly so, that we have not taken full advantage of that room, but that is why we playtest.
The next iteration will explore some more of that room and I think you will find the 3/4 a bit more justified.
Just some random musings at midnight.. back to working on Words of Power for me.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo PublishingNo offense, but I have to question if the class your describing is needed or wanted, I can't help but think we have already seen enough classes (bard, summoner, alchemist, eldritch knight, arcane archer, inquisitor) that do exactly what your trying to do again with another class. While a class I would like to see a hexblade like martial class with secondary arcane abilities like a arcane paladin isn't necessary.
Edit: Sorry re-reading my post it comes of as whiny. Your the designer not me, I just don't like this particular design.
Not wanted? Have you been reading the boards??? Look up the word GISH in the search engine...
not wanted by some, wanted by others...therefor as an OPTIONAL class it is NEEDED.
I do believe that Jason needs a group hug for enduring the content of this thread.
Regards,
RuemerePS. *hug*
All the Magus threads really...since there's only 1 class to playtest instead of 6, it's getting that 6 exponentially multiplied it seems. everyone is focused on this ONE playtest item.
Perhaps to make them more MAGE than FTR, give them up to 9th level spells, but they only get access to 9th level spells at level 20.
Hopefully, the Magus Arcana will be available at every even level. Then one of my suggestions I put in the Magus Arcana might work:
Spell of the Grand Magus. Choose one 7th level spell from the sorcerer/wizard list. You can cast it once per day. You must be 16th level to select his Magus Arcana.
Improved Spell of the Grand Magus. Choose one 7th or 8th level spell from the sorcerer/wizard list. You can cast it once per day. You must be 18th level to select his Magus Arcana. You must have the Spell of the Grand Magus before selecting this Magus Arcana.
Greater Spell of the Grand Magus. Choose one 7th, 8th, or 9th level spell from the sorcerer/wizard list. You can cast it once per day. You must be 20th level to select his Magus Arcana. You must have the Spell of the Grand Magus and Improved Spell of the Grand Magus before selecting this Magus Arcana.
I do believe that Jason needs a group hug for enduring the content of this thread.
Regards,
RuemerePS. *hug*
All the Magus threads really...since there's only 1 class to playtest instead of 6, it's getting that 6 exponentially multiplied it seems. everyone is focused on this ONE playtest item.
Perhaps to make them more MAGE than FTR, give them up to 9th level spells, but they only get access to 9th level spells at level 20.
Hopefully, the Magus Arcana will be available at every even level. Then one of my suggestions I put in the Magus Arcana might work:
Spell of the Grand Magus. Choose one 7th level spell from the sorcerer/wizard list. You can cast it once per day. You must be 16th level to select his Magus Arcana.
Improved Spell of the Grand Magus. Choose one 7th or 8th level spell from the sorcerer/wizard list. You can cast it once per day. You must be 18th level to select his Magus Arcana. You must have the Spell of the Grand Magus before selecting this Magus Arcana.
Greater Spell of the Grand Magus. Choose one 7th, 8th, or 9th level spell from the sorcerer/wizard list. You can cast it once per day. You must be 20th level to select his Magus Arcana. You must have the Spell of the Grand Magus and Improved Spell of the Grand Magus before selecting this Magus Arcana.
nice!
Those are good arcana