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Cylerist wrote:

I was getting concerned about all the back and forth and tone on the message boards about the Magus.

The fact that you (Jason) stepped in and provided insight is just above and beyond the call of duty!
You sir have all my respect!
Can't wait for more chances to playtest your creations.

+1!


Kibeth wrote:

I don't seem to be getting a lot of feedback in the other thread, so I thought I'd post this in a more active forum. Essentially, I playtested the magus and found it lacking. My dm approved a re-make that he is allowing me to play in his adventures. I was hoping that Jason, along with the rest of the general community, would give me some feedback.

Here it is:
The Magus Remake

Also: since he cannot use armour or shields -

Is Arcane Armour a force effect, or simulating Dexterity bonus? I'm guessing the latter, but I think that needs to be clearer.

I'd like to see a form of force armour or shield, if not, perhaps amongst the arcana...not sure how you'd work this into enough rounds per day to be useful though. He is a melee character after all.

Ok, I think I'm out. Thanks for putting that together, man.

K


Kibeth wrote:

I don't seem to be getting a lot of feedback in the other thread, so I thought I'd post this in a more active forum. Essentially, I playtested the magus and found it lacking. My dm approved a re-make that he is allowing me to play in his adventures. I was hoping that Jason, along with the rest of the general community, would give me some feedback.

Here it is:
The Magus Remake

Hey Kibeth,

I liked your take on that class a lot actually. The expanded and improved Magus Arcana list was by and large a vast improvement. First impressions:

Love the point system, and that it's renewable by spells but not entirely dependant on them. In reality I think this maybe gives the Magus an extra combat or so where he doesn't have to start burning spells. Given his spells per day this is a good thing. Think it would work better with a spontaneous caster though, ultimately. However, your 'Touch Spell Mastery' arcana is rather inspired and would alleviate one of my biggest concerns about playing such a class as a prepared caster.

Arcane Might is very similar to Arcane strike, and since you put that up as an optional bonus feat it may not be necessary to have a version that carries a spell point cost.

Expanded Arcana, again, I think this is a great option for a Magus, though it may topple balance in the hands of power gamers (but then our resident power gamer can break anything, so that's not necessarily a genuine problem).

I see that you've addressed the MAD issue significantly. Arcane insight, coupled with Arcane might *and* Arcane Strike all seem to do a similar job. Good job two of them are swift actions or it could get nasty. I'd actually like to see an Int bonus to hit, but that may be taking it too far...

I'm not exactly sure about Arcane Wind. Is this inspired from something else? It didn't fit conceptually for me (subjective opinion only). Flying in space seems a bit outside his modus.

The 20th level capstone is perhaps a little nasty. Also it undermines tactical choices when selecting the Arcana. I'd personally impose a few more limits on it.

Overall though, really good, IMHO and def something I'd consider playing over the existing version.


Ravingdork wrote:

The duskblade in v3.5' Player's Handbook II had full base attack bonus and 5th-level spells and was perfectly balanced with other classes. Aside from a few knee-jerk reactions early on in its career, it saw a lot of play (in our group and others) and worked out extremely well in terms of balance, playability, and awesome/cool/fun concept.

Since Pathfinder core classes are a fair bit more powerful than v3.5 core classes anyways, it would make perfect sense for Pathfinder's version of the fighter/mage base class to be a little bit more powerful than the duskblade by having full base attack bonus and 6th-level spells.

How come it wasn't done THAT way?

EDIT: Feel free to use this space as a Magus/Duskblade comparison thread too if you want.

I just lost a HUGE post on this due to a 'technical difficulty'. Welcome to the boards. Humph.

My previous point, in very brief was that I'd never swap my current Duskblade (level 12 now, 2 years play) for the Magus because:

- The class is too middling, and that, IMO is Piazo's first mistake. Half decent spell progression and half decent attacks make for....a half decent character? Well, maybe he's OK. The problem is, this slot is already filled by the bard, basically. I'd sacrife a spell level or two for decent attacks in this instance, and go with a more combat heavy class.

- The penalty to use his main class feature seems too high for his BAB to sustain and for him to retain a reasonable chance to hit at low-to-mid levels. He's proposed as a melee character and his abilities promote him as such, so why give me a -4 to hit when casting *and* a 3/4 attack rate? Strikes me as ill-conceived. Crazy MAD problem, as mentioned in other posts. Common problem in this area though.

Ok, I know these penalties decrease with level but it smacks of really uneven play, and most importantly that player is going to spend half his gaming time waiting for his power levels to kick in. I know you need balance, but come on...my Duskblade can channel *and quick cast in the same round by low-mid levels, and he can do almost as well as the fighter at low levels when he's out of spells.

The Magus equivalent of Rogue Talents are, frankly, pony. He doesn't have enough spells to burn them off for what is a very limited duration hit bonus. Pony. Also, he has no real stamina. Nowhere near enough slots per day to do what he does. I'd suggest a power pool, but we know they're far from perfect too..

"Oh, I'm a prepared caster too? That's great, I can share spells with a wizard! What? I can't learn most of his spells?... even the ones that are level appropriate? And my Touch spells are...hey where are my touch spells??? Guys?"

I'm not convinced, though I don't *hate* it yet. I'll play one soon and see how it pans out, just to be fair, and shut up about it any more till then.

- as an aside, at levels 5-8 the Duskblade was more powerful than my 3.5 version companions, but since mid level and a pathfinder conversion I've been left somewhat behind, esp by the (drumroll please...) fighter and the rogue. Yeah. Sneak attacks and crits in PF OWN.

Erm, ok I'm out, my original post was far more succict but I'm tired and ill.

Hi everyone, by the way, I'm new here.

Thanks,

K