Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere
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Hey.
I'm planning to make a female cleric of Asmodeus for the Kingmaker-campaign. She would be Lawful neutral, due to our GM:s restriction of evil characters. When I made her backstory, several questions came upon:
1.Why somebody wants to be cleric for Devil-lord of hell? Would it be out of respect? Would it be out of fear? Or is the only reason greed-greed for power over the hell's might?
2.What's the normal attitude of people about the clerics of Asmodeus? If somebody finds out the god of my priest, do they throw stones at her and call her a witch and devil-worshipping piece of sh*t?
I just wondered.
As for 2, at least: No, they probably wouldn't. The church of Asmodeus is one of the major churches in several of the large cities in Golarion (Korvosa and Egorian, for instance). They wouldn't be major churches if people called their clerics names and threw stones at them :)
All 3 reasons on #1 seem likely. If you have access to it, read the article on the faith of Asmodeus in AP #29 - Mother of Flies. It should give you plenty of ideas. Just skip the part about Paladins :)
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Asmodeus is not only Evil but he's also Lawful.
Someone who thinks that everyone must follow the rules or be (strongly) punished and very much Law orientated would be leaning towards it.
Most probably priests of Asmodeus would be feared just like inquisitors were during the Inquisition or Politic Officers in some countries in modern age.
Asmodeus is the church that stopped the chaos in many countries so people have learned to respect and fear them I would guess.
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Lawful Neutral characters value a well ordered and stable society. They are not particularly moved by pity for the misfortune of others, but are not deliberately sadistic and cruel, either.
As already stated, a LN cleric would appreciate Asmodeus for keeping much of the civilized world from falling apart. He/she may be willfully blind to the darker side of the faith, instead extolling the benefits of law and order.
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Asmodeus is all about making the law work to your advantage. There are plenty of people in the world who use the law to screw people out of money and power. These people are his congregation.
Asmodeus is the patron of those who would scheme and plot to get what they want. He believes in structure and discipline used to exercise power and control. He is the god of technicalities, loopholes and lopsided contracts.
A LN follower of Asmodeus represents a cleric who respects his lord as a god of civilisation and of ambition. As that character sees it, without the self interest and drive that Asmodeus bought to the fractured world after the disappearance of Aroden the world would be a far worse place. Asmodeus is therefore respected as the one who bought stability with an iron fist. A strong and powerful force for civilisation.
A LE follower on the other hand is a bit like Gordon Gecko from Wall St. Greed is good. Step on anyone to get what you want, destroy families, ruin businesses, make people destitute all you like so long as it gets you ahead. But always do it by the books.
A NE follower doesn't care about the lawful aspect, they are more focussed on the evil side. NE followers tend to focus more on the power promised by Asmodeus without caring about civilisation or doing things by the books. If there is an underground cult of Asmodeus then this is it. These are the diabolists and devil summoners, the ones who don't care about process or order. They are the ones who are the most dangerous as they do not follow a code of conduct beyond their own gratification.
The LN and LE aspects of the faith will be greatly respected by those who follow order. After all Asmodeus was one of the major players in the imprisonment of Rovagug and this has shown him to be an ally of civilisation not an enemy. Many people will respect him from this perspective.
The reaction you will get as a worshipper will depend on where you are. In Cheliax no-one will bat an eyelid if you say you are a follower. Realms of Good or Chaos may be less forgiving.
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I play a LN cleric of Asmodeus in PFS.
The character is an Ulfen from Lands of the Linnorn Kings. His lawful tendencies, or rather passion is what spurred him to follow Asmodeus In a land of chaos he urged his father (the chieftain) to issue written laws that all men must follow, and not rule by decree and force of will alone as was common in his lands.
Obviously this was not well received. :)
For MY cleric of Asmodeus, it is the lawful nature, the strict hierarchy, that he found appealing. Asmodeus promises law and order. Many people find that comforting and go out of their way for it, even if it is not Good. After all the rulers of Rome were not exactly good guys, but they did promote law and order out of chaos.
Now, its fun to play the cleric of Asmodeus in PFS. Whenever I run into an NPC and we talk and then he attempts to kill the party (nearly every session) I point to my holy symbol, wag my finger at him, and tell him I will now kill him for his betrayal and consign his soul to Asmodeus. So, I put a skill point in Perform (Last Rites) just for giggles and grins.
The character has no opinion, or rather could care less about, Good vs Evil. To him it is Law vs Chaos.
And he is one fun character to play.
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Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere
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Thanks for the answers, These will surely help me!
About the cleric: She is from the Restov, where she was daughter of the local merchant's guilds leader. She was bullied by her big brother, who abused and mocked the young girl. Merchant Guild made a deal with Cheliaxian trade company, and they became business partners. Cheliaxians had someone with them: Cleric of Asmodeus. She felt pity when he saw the siblings fighting, and was interested by the girl: Strong-willed, even under heavy abusing. He teached the girl in secret, and she later became a cleris, seeking justice, law and order in chaotic Brevoy. And, there is a kingdom to be build.... :D
Thank you for all your help, I have learned much!
The Church of Asmodeus would also stand to gain a lot by shaping the birth of a nation in their dark lord's image. Remember to have your character push very very hard for a lot of religious edicts, edicts in general and for consecrating just about everything for the glory of Asmodeus and the forces of order.
Pathfinder is one of the first campaign settings published that does the "evil" deities well in my opinion. There are fringe sects of any religion on Golarion that should be feared even if the alignment of their deity has a big fat "G" in it. The main difference in preaching between a LG and LE deity comes in strange little turns of phrasing and dogma. A cleric of Asmodeus would have a lot of prayers and sermons memorized that fall into the "Do this or I wil f---ing SPANK you" category. A cleric of Iomedae would likewise want people to follow the rules but it is much more "Do this so that there do not have to be any spankings ever again" category.
I don't want to ignite a religious war here, so for anyone that takes offense please note that I was simply offering examples to aid in roleplay. Check out the Old Testament in a Bible if you would like to get an idea of the language that would be used in the very lawful and very punishment oriented Church of Asmodeus.
Furthermore, a debate between a cleric of Asmodeus and one of Iomedae would really come down to trust versus boundaries. Nature versus Nurture. Iomedae wants mortals to trust their benevolent instincts to aid each other, organize and rise above chaos to unite as one omni-society against the darkness. Asmodeus wants mortals to realize that everything they think and do is inherently flawed and the only way to peace and prosperity is by getting in the g.d. line so that he can sort it all out, and the ideas of "Good and Evil" are debates for children, fools and heretics worthy of a good burning.
The way these ideas are implemented really fall down to what your character is about (alignment, personality, your story, etc).
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He teached the girl in secret, and she later became a cleris, seeking justice, law and order in chaotic Brevoy.
Be careful as Asmodeus is not much into Justice as in "give a fair & just judgement". He would ruthlessly apply the law whether you stole to eat or just for the sake of it.
Sorry but English isn't my mother tongue (I am a Frog) and it's hard to explain all the subtleties I would like to explain...
He teached the girl in secret, and she later became a cleris, seeking justice, law and order in chaotic Brevoy.
Be careful as Asmodeus is not much into Justice as in "give a fair & just judgement". He would ruthlessly apply the law whether you stole to eat or just for the sake of it.
Sorry but English isn't my mother tongue (I am a Frog) and it's hard to explain all the subtleties I would like to explain...
I think you did fine with your English. And I think you are correct. Asmodeus is interested in enforcing the law at all costs. Contracts WITHOUT loopholes are the basis for gaining souls.
Stole to feed your family? Sorry, you still stole. Welcome to Hell.
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Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere
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Chewbacca^^ meh, I'm a Finn,and I'm not good at english also :D
But, good point. Justice was pretty poor choise of words, not the what I was chasing. Law and order must be obtained at all cost. As in nature, society (and hell also) has strict rules system and "pecking order" of people.
Thanks once again guys. You're all right!
(All Hail Asmodeus)
I made a character for a friend's Council of Thieves campaign that I will most likely not be able to play in due to real life demands but, the character was a LN Cleric of Asmodeus as well. He strives to have law and order. I was planing on playing him as being in denial about the Evil part of his god's alignment.
Your god is evil! -- No he's not! It's your weaker gods who think his justice too severe that call him evil!
Ideally, I was hoping to have something happen in the campaign that would completely shake his confidence in himself and his faith, lose my cleric abilities for a short time and then convert to Abadar or another L-aligned god.
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After all the rulers of Rome were not exactly good guys, but they did promote law and order out of chaos.
That's not really true, however it is exactly the kind of lie that a worshipper of Asmodeus would tell: "Without us there would be total chaos, this land would be Galt, only worse!"
"Or maybe it would be like Andoran?"
"Die, unbeliever!"
"Gulp"
"Anyone else want to challenge Asmodeus' order? No? Good. Sign away your souls here."
Essentially, you're asking why people get into and stay in abusive relationships. There's a few notable differences about an intimate faith-based relationship as opposed to a physically intimate relationship, but, consider the parallels.
1. Because I deserve it: This works both ways. The selfish narcissist thinks that nothing is more important than what they've convinced themselves they deserve; certainly your pain comes second to their own. On the other hand, those who have been abused survive these relationships by rationalizing that abusive relationships are what they deserve.
2. Because Asmodeus really loves me. He makes me feel special. False, of course, but imagine how seductive that would be with a god, instead of a seductive partner. Especially when they provide you with spells.
3. Because you hope that they will change. While abusers (gods, men, or monsters) will usually promise to change during the honeymoon stage, it is rare for an abuser to change while still in a relationship.
4. While you are not the cause of the abuse, it's less scary if you're to blame, because then, at least, you're in control. So you hope that by acting better or more in line with their demands/commandments, you'll make everything good again.
5. It's not so bad and everybody does it. False, of course, but possibly true to that person's life experience.
6. They draw a link between love and violence. Again, violence begets violence. Its damage gets passed down by generation. People who were abusers were very often abused themselves. This is sad, and worth a paladin's pity, but also damning, as nobody knows better the damage such behavior can do and not everyone who was abused becomes an abuser.
7. Hopelessness: The idea of being happy without your current deity may seem impossible now.
8. Gender ideology. You're falsely made to believe that it's your biological fate to be treated this way.
9. Embarrassment and shame often keep people in an abusive relationship, with gods or humans, for quite some time.
10. Financial dependence. All of your professional contacts are with this god. Where else are you going to get spells? Plus, you've made all these enemies. You need those spells. If anyone good finds out about your relationship with this god, they'll drop you socially, attack you, arrest you. Where else are you going to go?
11. You feel you have a lack of supportive relationships. The good guys will never believe you, you fear they'll smite you, and everyone you care about you've alienated or left to be with this all-consuming god.
12. Fear: This all-knowing, extremely powerful god will be ANGRY if I leave.
13. You're in the hands of an angry god, but at least you're not alone.
14. You're loyal. It's your best trait. It's what makes you feel good about everything you've done and you've stayed that way despite everything that has been done to you.
15. GUILT. With gods, we're dealing with world-class manipulators pulling the guilt-trips of a lifetime. Evil deities are world-class sociopaths.
16. Can you say, self-medication? Dependency on drugs or alcohol can play a part in staying in abusive relationships.
Given all of this stuff, please consider the awesome courage that it takes for someone to admit that their life's become unmanageable and their relationship intolerably abusive and to seek change. The miracle isn't that so many people get trapped and stay trapped in their abusive relationships with gods and men. The miracle is that so many people get out.
Source:
http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/t...hytheystay.htm
1.Why somebody wants to be cleric for Devil-lord of hell? Would it be out of respect? Would it be out of fear? Or is the only reason greed-greed for power over the hell's might?
Asmodeus is LE, but he's more lawful than he is evil (or at least, has excellent PR that makes it seem that way). He's really about a firm, unyielding order, and will do everything to spread this order. You could say that he was actively promoting order, but the evil part is just because of his methods (he's not terribly intent on spreading or championing evil).
It's a cold, hard, cruel order, without mercy or compassion, but still order is the main part here.
I can see someone who is lawful neutral take up the lot of cleric of the Prince of Darkness because he thinks that law is supreme and should come before everything else, and no other deities show enough commitment to this cause in his eyes.
It could also be done out of a sense of tradition, because the family has always provided priests to the infernal causes.
And there are the other parts of Asmodeus's portfolio, especially pride and contracts. Someone who was betrayed when others broke their word after agreeing something (without actually signing anything) might take up the worship because with a proper contract, that would not have happened!
Others will take excessive pride in themselves and what they can do and follow a deity that preaches that pride is good - even if that person isn't actually evil.
And, of course, once you add in lawful evil and neutral evil people, there's a whole lot of extra things that can work as impetus: The will to lord over others, hunger for power, the desire to get ahead by twisting the law or trick others into signing one-sided contracts, being slavers, tyrants, and so on.
2.What's the normal attitude of people about the clerics of Asmodeus? If somebody finds out the god of my priest, do they throw stones at her and call her a witch and devil-worshipping piece of sh*t?
I'd say that depends a lot on where you are. In places like Cheliax and its vassals, that would probably be an offence punishable by incarceration, slavery, torture, or maybe even death.
But even in places where Asmodeus is not the dominant force, it's not a given that Asmodeans are attacked!
Asmodeus is not only LE (probably the most socially acceptable form of evil), he makes sure to play by the rules. In most places, being evil is not a crime in itself, so you don't have anything to hold against them - and attacking and insulting them probably is an offence, and you can be sure that an Asmodean will bring this to the authorities.
Of course, followers of Asmodeus are more often found in more urban, lawful places where they have the law on their side as long as they don't break it.
In cosmopolitan places like Absalom, "neutral" places of trade like Katapesh, and even lawful places like Korvosa, the Asmodeans will feel most at home, because only the foolish will dare move against them on a whim.
They will tread a lot more lightly in places that are given over to chaos - Whether it's CG places like freedom-loving Andoran, CN places like anarchic Galt, or CE places like the demonic Worldwound, Asmodeus and his worshippers will not be very welcome there, and depending on how civilised the places are and what sort of laws they have concerning slavery and the like (if they have laws), they might get more than rotten fruit or pebbles.
Similarly, in places of exceeding goodness like Lastwall or Mendev, they will not welcome them with open arms, either. In a place ruled by Paladins, it might actually be a crime to be evil...