Are Alchemical items worth it beyond low levels?


Advice


While I was rolling up my half-orc alchemist, I noticed that overall, they receive massive bonuses when it comes to crafting alchemical items, in terms of speed and crafting checks. But are is that really useful beyond the first few levels of the game?

I hope that the ability to instantly craft at 18 level has some useful applications. Are there any?

Sovereign Court

Sayer_of_Nay wrote:


While I was rolling up my half-orc alchemist, I noticed that overall, they receive massive bonuses when it comes to crafting alchemical items, in terms of speed and crafting checks. But are is that really useful beyond the first few levels of the game?

I hope that the ability to instantly craft at 18 level has some useful applications. Are there any?

It might be. Say the caster is out of spells and you really need to set a lot of stuff on fire, so you can whip up some Alchemists fire. Need to equip an army? Acid and thunderstones for everyone!

Dark Archive

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Sayer_of_Nay wrote:


While I was rolling up my half-orc alchemist, I noticed that overall, they receive massive bonuses when it comes to crafting alchemical items, in terms of speed and crafting checks. But are is that really useful beyond the first few levels of the game?

I hope that the ability to instantly craft at 18 level has some useful applications. Are there any?

It has just as many applications as there are at lower levels, the combat potency will be degraded to a large degree because 1d6 of fire or cold damage is negligible if not ignored by that point but the mundane and other uses maintain usefulness.

Besides, at that level the cost for any given alchemical item is so dismal compared to the wealth you have available to you that it wont touch your funds in any appreciable way.

Also keep in mind that any alchemist worth his weight would have found a way to have a magical lab to utilize or extra-dimensional pantry for every possible ingredient, beaker, and solvent he might need for his experiments.

Liberty's Edge

The standard alchemical items do lose a lot of their bang at higher levels, but they still have potential to be useful tactically. Talk to your GM about coming up with some new alchemical items (There's a whole slew of new ones in the 3rd party Tome of Secrets) or maybe ways to "condense" more than one vial of alchemist's fire or acid into a single container, or to allow them to burn over multiple rounds, like napalm.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Tanglefoot bags never get old.


Creatures with sick DR/SR/immunities that a character can't beat, if they're not resistant to fire then an alchemist fire every round might be the best you can do.


Don't forget Sunrods you can not read with darkvision and you will always have a need for light brighter than a torch wih out wasting a 3rd level spell slot

Jon Brazer Enterprises

I currently play a level 13 alchemist (originally a playtest but upgraded to the APG version). The only thing I really try to make anymore is poison, but I only do it when I have 2-4 in-game weeks off. It just takes to long. Nothing else at this point is really useful.

I'm working with the GM about coming up with enhanced versions of alchemical items (super alchemist fire, greater tanglefoot bags, etc) But otherwise, I use craft alchemy for brewing potions. Very handy.

The Exchange

Matthew Morris wrote:
Tanglefoot bags never get old.

WORD!

Dark Archive

DMcCoy1693 wrote:

I currently play a level 13 alchemist (originally a playtest but upgraded to the APG version). The only thing I really try to make anymore is poison, but I only do it when I have 2-4 in-game weeks off. It just takes to long. Nothing else at this point is really useful.

If you take Master Alchemist it GREATLY reduces the time it takes to make the items. By a power of 10 actually, and you make multiple doses of poison at the same time as well.


There are also some rules in the Adventurer's Armory about using alchemical items to boost spells. It can be a boon to the arcanist(s) in the party if you can keep them cheaply stocked with stuff that makes their booms boomier.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Carbon D. Metric wrote:
If you take Master Alchemist it GREATLY reduces the time it takes to make the items. By a power of 10 actually, and you make multiple doses of poison at the same time as well.

Ohhh, missed this feat. thanks carbon.


Sunrod raves are also a good time :)


The +5 to save for Antitoxin and Antiplague(?) never go out of style. Also Troll styptic (from Seekers of Secrets) as back up (or whipped up) healing.

Sovereign Court

warren Burgess wrote:
Don't forget Sunrods you can not read with darkvision and you will always have a need for light brighter than a torch wih out wasting a 3rd level spell slot

Just not true... Darkvision works exactly like normal vision and the only, the ONLY drawbacks are range and lack of color. Thats it.

Besides there are glowing inks in the Adventurers Armory that bypass that for nondarkvision users now.

--School of Vrock


tadkil wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
Tanglefoot bags never get old.
WORD!

This and thunder stones. You really wouldn't think it but it's true. Level 12 and we still use both.

Troll Septic is nice too.

Dark Archive

King of Vrock wrote:
warren Burgess wrote:
Don't forget Sunrods you can not read with darkvision and you will always have a need for light brighter than a torch wih out wasting a 3rd level spell slot

Just not true... Darkvision works exactly like normal vision and the only, the ONLY drawbacks are range and lack of color. Thats it.

Besides there are glowing inks in the Adventurers Armory that bypass that for nondarkvision users now.

--School of Vrock

Darkvision cant let you read. You cant see color. you cant see the color of the ink or the color of the paper.

Sovereign Court

Name Violation wrote:
King of Vrock wrote:
warren Burgess wrote:
Don't forget Sunrods you can not read with darkvision and you will always have a need for light brighter than a torch wih out wasting a 3rd level spell slot

Just not true... Darkvision works exactly like normal vision and the only, the ONLY drawbacks are range and lack of color. Thats it.

Besides there are glowing inks in the Adventurers Armory that bypass that for nondarkvision users now.

--School of Vrock

Darkvision cant let you read. You cant see color. you cant see the color of the ink or the color of the paper.

Holy Pazuzu! Sorry to threadjack but Darkvision is no different than watching a B&W TV. You can read that no? No Color doesn't mean you don't have contrast, it's Grayscale!

Where it comes into play is when you see a Cloud rolling in at you. Is is mere fog on the breeze or is it the yellowish vapors of a Cloudkill?

You raid the circus that's rolled into town as its a front for a demon cult. The Ringmaster has charmed 7 rogues and they are dressed identically except for the color of their wig, you need to save the red clown because he's the brainwashed kid brother of the local duke.

Those are the only drawbacks of darkvision.

--Vrock and Tackle


Unless it's red ink on blue paper darkvision can let you read. Most things are written as black & white (including this post) :-)

"Darkvision
Darkvision is the extraordinary ability to see with no light source at all, out to a range specified for the creature. Darkvision is black-and-white only (colors cannot be discerned)."

<grumble> Ninja'd


Krazy Kragnar Alchemical Surplus, Shop by super super genus games has some great ideas. The Alchemical Goad is a great way to make alchemical items worth more at later level. I work them like master work Items so the alchemist has to craft it at the same time as the item.

Dark Archive

i always figured darkvision was more like dardevils vision in the comics than b&w tv. hmmmm...

/threadjack


Name Violation wrote:

i always figured darkvision was more like dardevils vision in the comics than b&w tv. hmmmm...

/threadjack

That's blind sense or blind sight.

Liberty's Edge

Karelzarath wrote:
There are also some rules in the Adventurer's Armory about using alchemical items to boost spells. It can be a boon to the arcanist(s) in the party if you can keep them cheaply stocked with stuff that makes their booms boomier.

The write up on them is also HERE on the SRD.

Contributor

Name Violation wrote:
i always figured darkvision was more like dardevils vision in the comics than b&w tv. hmmmm...

It worked that way in the 3e playtest until I pointed out that this either would let you see invisible creatures and clouds, or would not let you see invisible creature or clouds.

So they changed it to the current form, which is "it works just like normal vision, except in black & white."


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
It worked that way in the 3e playtest until I pointed out that this either would let you see invisible creatures and clouds, or would not let you see invisible creature or clouds.

So how does it work for the daredevil?

Contributor

Daredevil has blindsense and/or blindsight, not darkvision.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Daredevil has blindsense and/or blindsight, not darkvision.

Since he can even tell if somebody is lying by the changes in a person's heartbeat, I believe that he possesses Blindsense, Blindsight AND Tremorsense :D ...

EDIT: and since he has an abnormally powerful sense of smell, I would DARE to say... even Scent.

Contributor

I was just addressing his "visual" capabilities. I'd argue that his exceptionally high Perception and Sense Motive checks can account for the heartbeat thing. :)


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Ah, ok then. :) Thanks.


The smitter wrote:
Krazy Kragnar Alchemical Surplus, Shop by super super genus games has some great ideas. The Alchemical Goad is a great way to make alchemical items worth more at later level. I work them like master work Items so the alchemist has to craft it at the same time as the item.

+1

That book made an alchemist PC in a game of mine not have to kill himself so he could roll a new character.


Daredevil's heartbeat trick is due to his hyper hearing :-D

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