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....am I the only one who finds it ridiculous that zombies could ever be a credible threat to humans with fireams, tanks, and missiles?
No, I find it kind of ridiculous myself. If man has proven anything, it's a capacity for survival against incredible odds, and a clever and determined adaptation when it comes to killing things or destroying what might hurt him. Our civilization might be brought to the brink, but I think we'd survive and overcome in the long run.
And your cow example fails for one simple reason: Cows don't look like us. They don't wear the faces of our friends, families, and neighbors. We don't look at a cow as being human, or as ever having been human. No matter how much we like to eat them, or how cute some people think they are, we've never had much regard for their lives in any sense. Aside from all of that, if 98 million cows banded together to seek out and devour the flesh of humans, our military WOULD be very hard pressed to turn back the mooing tide. An M-16A2 holds 30 rounds in it's magazine, and the American infantryman goes into combat with 6...
Also the cow example isn't the same as the zombie one due to the fact that, we don't become revenous cows when bitten like we do zombies. So in the cow example the man eating cows start at 98mil and then decline in a war of attrition as they eat peope and are shot. In the zombie version, each loss for team living becomes a new member of team Z. So if they started at 98mil and we started at 300mil population, the race fluctuates in that they don't follow the pattern of 98million and down but instead go from 98mil to 92mil and then suddenly 100mil in one fight easily as the dead rises. And if it is the scenerio that all dead become walkers, then theyre getting reinforcements all over all the time, while cows are still cows :P
....am I the only one who finds it ridiculous that zombies could ever be a credible threat to humans with fireams, tanks, and missiles?No, I find it kind of ridiculous myself. If man has proven anything, it's a capacity for survival against incredible odds, and a clever and determined adaptation when it comes to killing things or destroying what might hurt him. Our civilization might be brought to the brink, but I think we'd survive and overcome in the long run.
So you dont think of things that could drive civilization to the brink as being a credible threat to humanity? I too, dont believe that a ZA would wipe out all of mankind, but it would end civilization as we know it for a very long time. I guess we just have different definitions of credible threat.
Just as there are levels of ass-kick we are prepared to accept, there are levels of civilization we are prepared to accept as well. Just because we get through the Zombie Apocalypse doesn't mean we all get to blog about it the next day- get ready for computer skills to take a back seat to hunting and gathering-based ones.
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So you dont think of things that could drive civilization to the brink as being a credible threat to humanity? I too, dont believe that a ZA would wipe out all of mankind, but it would end civilization as we know it for a very long time. I guess we just have different definitions of credible threat.....am I the only one who finds it ridiculous that zombies could ever be a credible threat to humans with fireams, tanks, and missiles?No, I find it kind of ridiculous myself. If man has proven anything, it's a capacity for survival against incredible odds, and a clever and determined adaptation when it comes to killing things or destroying what might hurt him. Our civilization might be brought to the brink, but I think we'd survive and overcome in the long run.
No, I think there's a difference between the end of civilization and the end of humanity.
and I think the end of civilization would be a credible threat to humanity as we know it.
And I agree. But no one is saying a ZA would exterminate humanity. In fact Ive never read or viewed a ZA scenario where humanity is wiped out completely. Its more of a bubonic plague on medevial humanity type of disaster in most presentations. And I would have considered the bubonic plague a credible threat to humanity if I was a mediviel person.
What would be the results of a "credible threat", other than extermination?
I would have to say it's kinda like the earth being destroyed- it doesn't have to be blown up Death Star-> Alderaan style, it just has to be changed into something that no longer makes it the planet we once knew. That could mean anything from atomspheric change to one too many volcanoes.
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What would be the results of a "credible threat", other than extermination?I would have to say it's kinda like the earth being destroyed- it doesn't have to be blown up Death Star-> Alderaan style, it just has to be changed into something that no longer makes it the planet we once knew. That could mean anything from atomspheric change to one too many volcanoes.
Something that could no longer sustain human life? I'd agree that would be a credible threat. A large meteor strike might be another example.
Something that could no longer sustain human life? I'd agree that would be a credible threat. A large meteor strike might be another example.What would be the results of a "credible threat", other than extermination?I would have to say it's kinda like the earth being destroyed- it doesn't have to be blown up Death Star-> Alderaan style, it just has to be changed into something that no longer makes it the planet we once knew. That could mean anything from atomspheric change to one too many volcanoes.
With respect to the Zombie Apocalypse, not even something that dramatic. Like I(and I think others) have said above, the society we know now is incredibly fragile. Someone had a ratio once that displayed how far away someone was from committing cold blooded murder, and that ratio was the number of days it had been since they had either eaten or drank(not sure which one it was, though, chances are I'm getting the whole thing wrong). I think the ZA, although it WOULD be over in a few weeks, would be the big push that got the majority of people on the planet to a level of desperation that our current levelof civilization simply could no longer be sustained.
To me, I would consider a threat to humanity anything that causes the survivors of said event to seriously question whether or not Humans, as a species,would survive said event.
I know that if I was smack dab in a ZA scenario(and not yet a zombie) I would seriously consider that ZA to be aa credible threat to humanity. Just as Im sure people in medevial Europe considered the Bubonic plague to be a credible threat to humanity. As I said, I just think we have different ideas as to what constitutes a credible threat, and I am only trying to show my point of view. (and apologising if my last few posts seem kind of rude. Damn you text medium, Damn you!)
And I keep using the Bubonic plague as an example because I think it most closely matches a ZA. Only a ZA would be worse due to easier travel among the world than a typical infected pre-modern European.
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I think the ZA, although it WOULD be over in a few weeks, would be the big push that got the majority of people on the planet to a level of desperation that our current levelof civilization simply could no longer be sustained.
I think you're right in that a lot of people would become desperate and start thinking this was The End. However, I also think that it's times like that in which great leaders emerge to unite people and guide them through the bad times into a better future.
I think the ZA, although it WOULD be over in a few weeks, would be the big push that got the majority of people on the planet to a level of desperation that our current levelof civilization simply could no longer be sustained.I think you're right in that a lot of people would become desperate and start thinking this was The End. However, I also think that it's times like that in which great leaders emerge to unite people and guide them through the bad times into a better future.
Agreed, but then again, this also is a point in the degrading(?) civilization category. I could see a lot of charismatic individuals(petty dictators) rising up alongside those great leaders(who will be writing the history books as they note their victories over their said "petty dictators"), as feudalism returns to the world on a massive scale.
In Terry Brooks' Genesis of Shannara series, the setting is not unlike a near future ZA. The vast majority of humanity degrades into subhumans for different reasons. Survivors are shown in Seattle in two groups: a tribe of orphan children that live as scavengers in the downtown area and a community of families that hold up in an open air sports arena (I want to say it was Safeco Field).
How it ties in to the devastation of humanity discussion (heavy spoilers for those who haven't read the series yet but may intend to).
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Freehold DM and Aberzombie are both missing the point, I think. There won't be enough people left for "great leaders" or "petty dictators"...the best you can hope for is a short lived return to tribalism, followed by extinction as the newly formed "tribes" die out (with the difficulties I mention above regarding procreation, the idea of succeeding generations is laughable, at best).
Something else occurred to me while I was typing this: In the "Walking Dead" milieu, EVERYONE IS ALREADY INFECTED, BITTEN OR NOT! That is to say, every single person who dies...regardless of the cause of death...will rise as a zombie unless the brain is destroyed. Bites kill by fever and expedite the process, but those who die of starvation, or thirst, or who commit suicide by OD or hanging...heck, those people who succumb to cancer...will ALL rise as zombies, even if they have no contact with the Walkers whatsoever. The plague is global and universal.
I think the whole thread has gotten off 'the point', which is to discuss a great TV series and the comic that inspired it.
Someone should make a general Zombie Apocalypse thread in OT.
And I still want Gina Torres for Michonne.
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I think the whole thread has gotten off 'the point', which is to discuss a great TV series and the comic that inspired it.
True. I should have known better than to offer my opinion on Sebastian's question. Too many trolls.
And I still want Gina Torres for Michonne.
Now, although I'm a big comic book fan, I did not read the Walking Dead comics, so I'm not completely familiar with the character of Michonne. However, when I was in my comics shop yesterday, we were talking about the show and the clerk showed me a page of the comic showing what he though was one of the best characters in the series - a chick with a sword. Is that the Michonne you mention?
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I think the whole thread has gotten off 'the point', which is to discuss a great TV series and the comic that inspired it.True. I should have known better than to offer my opinion on Sebastian's question. Too many trolls.
And I still want Gina Torres for Michonne.Now, although I'm a big comic book fan, I did not read the Walking Dead comics, so I'm not completely familiar with the character of Michonne. However, when I was in my comics shop yesterday, we were talking about the show and the clerk showed me a page of the comic showing what he though was one of the best characters in the series - a chick with a sword. Is that the Michonne you mention?
That would be her. Her introduction to the group is one of the coolest in the comics and she remains one of my favorite characters out of the entire series.
I think the whole thread has gotten off 'the point', which is to discuss a great TV series and the comic that inspired it.True. I should have known better than to offer my opinion on Sebastian's question. Too many trolls.
And I still want Gina Torres for Michonne.Now, although I'm a big comic book fan, I did not read the Walking Dead comics, so I'm not completely familiar with the character of Michonne. However, when I was in my comics shop yesterday, we were talking about the show and the clerk showed me a page of the comic showing what he though was one of the best characters in the series - a chick with a sword. Is that the Michonne you mention?
Actually, I think we've all been rather civil to each other on this angle, even as far off topic as we've gotten. I could see people arguing with some heat, as for some reason zombie apocalypse surival strategies are quite personal, but we've avoided the eye gouging and such you'd see in a politcal thread. Which is where we should start the zombie apocalypse, IMO.
And yeah, chicks with swords. Love it.
I think the whole thread has gotten off 'the point', which is to discuss a great TV series and the comic that inspired it.True. I should have known better than to offer my opinion on Sebastian's question. Too many trolls.
Ouch.
I seriously do not like that I have to wait a whole week until the next episode. I rarely watch television and I think this is the first non-NFL show that I am excited to watch since the Simpsons heyday of the 1990's. What am I going to do when the season ends?!?
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I think the whole thread has gotten off 'the point', which is to discuss a great TV series and the comic that inspired it.True. I should have known better than to offer my opinion on Sebastian's question. Too many trolls.Ouch.
I seriously do not like that I have to wait a whole week until the next episode. I rarely watch television and I think this is the first non-NFL show that I am excited to watch since the Simpsons heyday of the 1990's. What am I going to do when the season ends?!?
I've got it saved on my DVR. By the time the second season rolls around, I'll have watched the first many times.
Quit thinking exactly like me!
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I think the ZA, although it WOULD be over in a few weeks, would be the big push that got the majority of people on the planet to a level of desperation that our current levelof civilization simply could no longer be sustained.I think you're right in that a lot of people would become desperate and start thinking this was The End. However, I also think that it's times like that in which great leaders emerge to unite people and guide them through the bad times into a better future.
This.
Also, people seem to take their zombie scenarios a little too personally. So much so, I feel the need for a spoiler:
Zombies are fictional. There isn't going to be a zombie apocalypse, and there certainly isn't one true and correct way of conceptualizing such a thing. I don't need to be asked about shooting my loved ones in the face when discussing such a whimsical topic.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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You mean....gasp....I'm not really a zombie! But....but...what about the craving for brainnnssss? And the smell? And the parts that keep falling off?Also, people seem to take their zombie scenarios a little too personally. So much so, I feel the need for a spoiler:
** spoiler omitted **
You're not real at all, you're actually some sort of mutant AI.
Or a leper, that could work too...
But....but...what about the craving for brainnnssss? And the smell? And the parts that keep falling off?
Flying swine flu. It's bad.
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You mean....gasp....I'm not really a zombie! But....but...what about the craving for brainnnssss? And the smell? And the parts that keep falling off?Also, people seem to take their zombie scenarios a little too personally. So much so, I feel the need for a spoiler:
** spoiler omitted **
You're not real at all, you're actually some sort of mutant AI.
Or a leper, that could work too...
Well, I do sometimes dream in binary.....
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More new stuff in this weeks episode. New people, new situations.
I don't dislike it, but I wish they were telling the story from the comics. I'm also starting to think the 'Obvious A&+%&@*' theory is going to end up true.
More new stuff in this weeks episode. New people, new situations.
I don't dislike it, but I wish they were telling the story from the comics. I'm also starting to think the 'Obvious a@#!*%~' theory is going to end up true.
** spoiler omitted **
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Thoughts: (comics stuff that might spoil future episodes is spoilered)
Darryl must have to sterilize the HELL out of those bolts if he hunts zombies and food with them. Hope for the sake of Mr. Buttshot that he used a fresh one. And seriously, after wiping a post-zombie-cranium bolt off on my pants even once, I would be ready to burn that pair and get some new clothes.
I'm not sure which way I prefer the presentation of Jim's backstory between the comic and the show, but I'm happy with what they've done with him. I just hope they keep the rest of his stuff intact:
I've actually warmed up to the TV-originals who hopefully won't be redshirts after all. (spoilers for who wasn't originally in the comics)
I'm guessing Allen, Donna, and the twins have been replaced by Miguel and his family, though only Miguel has actually said anything so far...and Donna was the take-charge half of that couple. Probably a complete refit for those characters.
You know, in the TV series he started off skeezy as hell, and the third episode multiplied that, but I have to admit they've made Shane more sympathetic at the same time. It may not have been entirely for the right reasons, but that beatdown in the third episode was satisfying.
I can't help but worry for the Vatos.
Really liked the stuff with Andrea and Amy. I'm still waiting for Andrea to start channelling Cybil Bennett though.
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You know, in the TV series he started off skeezy as hell, and the third episode multiplied that, but I have to admit they've made Shane more sympathetic at the same time. It may not have been entirely for the right reasons, but that beatdown in the third episode was satisfying.
Say what? I think Shane in the TV show is a complete *expletive*. He lied to Lori about Rick being dead. His freaking partner! And proceeded to make his moves on the supposed widow in mourning. Granted, in the comic he's a bit one dimensional but that's just absolute gutter trash IMO. And then he beat the crap out of that guy because Lori called him on it.
Yes, the guy needed to be set straight, but...
Really liked the stuff with Andrea and Amy. I'm still waiting for Andrea to start channelling Cybil Bennett though.
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You know, in the TV series he started off skeezy as hell, and the third episode multiplied that, but I have to admit they've made Shane more sympathetic at the same time. It may not have been entirely for the right reasons, but that beatdown in the third episode was satisfying.Say what? I think Shane in the TV show is a complete *expletive*. He lied to Lori about Rick being dead. His freaking partner! And proceeded to make his moves on the supposed widow in mourning. Granted, in the comic he's a bit one dimensional but that's just absolute gutter trash IMO. And then he beat the crap out of that guy because Lori called him on it.
Oh no, it certainly doesn't make him any less of an ass.(and it was noted that the beatdown was driven more by his butthurt than moral outrage) It's just that he seems more human and realized in this version.
One has to wonder if this affair had been brewing before Rick got shot. And then there's the matter of what happened to Shane's girlfriend and family. He's certainly latched on tight to Rick's....
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You know, in the TV series he started off skeezy as hell, and the third episode multiplied that, but I have to admit they've made Shane more sympathetic at the same time. It may not have been entirely for the right reasons, but that beatdown in the third episode was satisfying.Say what? I think Shane in the TV show is a complete *expletive*. He lied to Lori about Rick being dead. His freaking partner! And proceeded to make his moves on the supposed widow in mourning. Granted, in the comic he's a bit one dimensional but that's just absolute gutter trash IMO. And then he beat the crap out of that guy because Lori called him on it.
Oh no, it certainly doesn't make him any less of an ass.(and it was noted that the beatdown was driven more by his butthurt than moral outrage) It's just that he seems more human and realized in this version.
One has to wonder if this affair had been brewing before Rick got shot. And then there's the matter of what happened to Shane's girlfriend and family. He's certainly latched on tight to Rick's....
Ok. More human and realized, I can agree with. More sympathetic, not so much.
I wonder if anything will be mentioned about his family before the end of the season.
Say what? I think Shane in the TV show is a complete *expletive*. He lied to Lori about Rick being dead. His freaking partner! And proceeded to make his moves on the supposed widow in mourning...
See, I interpreted things another way. To me, his initial questionable speech in the car with Rick at the series opening was more suggestive of typical openness between two close buddies. Shane himself said he wouldn't talk like that to his girlfriend, but his partner he could share his thoughts with. Regarding telling Lori Rick was dead, well who would really think he could have survived? I mean, already shot, lying unconscious in a hospital surrounded by a military encampment that had already be overrun?* Given that Lori's character had already been established as... headstrong, I could see a good buddy telling his buddy's wife the guy was dead even if he didn't know for sure in order to get her moving to save her and her son. He would have known that she would want to go and "save" Rick otherwise, jeopardising herself and his buddy's son. Rick himself asked Shane to lie to Lori about him being shot before the second shooting. Similar situation, Shane did exactly what I would expect a close friend of mine to do for my family in order to ensure their survival (except for the screwing around part - that was Bad Judgement). Shane has been established as the guy who puts the group over the individual, who believes his dedication to the group's survival (and perhaps his pre-crisis position) gives him the authority to enforce his decisions. I don't think they've portrayed him as a coward given the gunfight at the beginning. Perhaps because I've never read the comic, I don't have the information to understand the character as well as others, yet though.
*IV at a typical rate for unconscious gunshot wound not being fed would have run out in half a day. Dead or at least in organ failure by day 3.
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Say what? I think Shane in the TV show is a complete *expletive*. He lied to Lori about Rick being dead. His freaking partner! And proceeded to make his moves on the supposed widow in mourning...See, I interpreted things another way. To me, his initial questionable speech in the car with Rick at the series opening was more suggestive of typical openness between two close buddies. Shane himself said he wouldn't talk like that to his girlfriend, but his partner he could share his thoughts with. Regarding telling Lori Rick was dead, well who would really think he could have survived? I mean, already shot, lying unconscious in a hospital surrounded by a military encampment that had already be overrun?* Given that Lori's character had already been established as... headstrong, I could see a good buddy telling his buddy's wife the guy was dead even if he didn't know for sure in order to get her moving to save her and her son. He would have known that she would want to go and "save" Rick otherwise, jeopardising herself and his buddy's son. Rick himself asked Shane to lie to Lori about him being shot before the second shooting. Similar situation, Shane did exactly what I would expect a close friend of mine to do for my family in order to ensure their survival (except for the screwing around part - that was Bad Judgement). Shane has been established as the guy who puts the group over the individual, who believes his dedication to the group's survival (and perhaps his pre-crisis position) gives him the authority to enforce his decisions. I don't think they've portrayed him as a coward given the gunfight at the beginning. Perhaps because I've never read the comic, I don't have the information to understand the character as well as others, yet though.
I didn't say he was a coward, I said he was a douche. Notice the amount of rationalizing and off screen filling in of blanks you had to do to make him not-a-douche?
I didn't say he was a coward, I said he was a douche. Notice the amount of rationalizing and off screen filling in of blanks you had to do to make him not-a-douche?
Comic spoilers, but nothing major:
Ah. Read your comic spoiler: that probably would have influenced my initial opinion of Lori and Shane for the tv show.
I wasn't rationalizing while while watching the episode; I get what you mean, but the "filling in the blanks" is from trying to explain later why the characters created the impressions they did for me.
Do you think they will try to make Shane clearly a bad guy on the show, or morally ambiguous?
Dear D13,
I concur. With all of that.
Sincerely,
me
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This show is good. Its too bad that AMC dropped the ball in reordering 13 new episodes. It is going to be a long time a-comin after the original 6 air that we are going to see new episodes.
The only ball that was dropped was in ordering a 6 episode season in the first place. Season 2 will start one year after season 1 did. Which is how most shows work.
Does it suck that it's almost a year in between? Yeah, it does. But their target demographic is the same Horror/Halloween obsessed market that it was this year, so it makes a bit of sense to aim for October.
Other than that, I agree with you about the camp parts. The best, zombie shows/films are more about the survivors than the zombies. The undead merely serve as a catalyst to see how folks react.
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Well, after tonight's episode/previews, I no longer hold any delusions about knowing what's going on just because I read the comics.
This is like 'alternate reality' Walking Dead. Same characters for the most part, but going off in crazy new directions that... Well, whatever. It's still zombies and it's still about the same characters... kinda. But, I'm no longer certain about the season finale. And certainly have no clue as to where season 2 will go or if they will encounter the same locations & people.
It makes me a little bit sad, to be honest.
Well, after tonight's episode/previews, I no longer hold any delusions about knowing what's going on just because I read the comics.
This is like 'alternate reality' Walking Dead. Same characters for the most part, but going off in crazy new directions that... Well, whatever. It's still zombies and it's still about the same characters... kinda. But, I'm no longer certain about the season finale. And certainly have no clue as to where season 2 will go or if they will encounter the same locations & people.
It makes me a little bit sad, to be honest.
Why sad? It makes me excited, actually. I think the fandom(i.e. fandoms in general) are a little spoiled in believing that the original source is the ONE TRUE WAY. The TV peeps should have a little room to make changes. I'm sure there are some things in the comic that would NOT have worked on screen, and I'd rather see something different than something watered down. Does that make any sense?
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Why sad? It makes me excited, actually. I think the fandom(i.e. fandoms in general) are a little spoiled in believing that the original source is the ONE TRUE WAY. The TV peeps should have a little room to make changes. I'm sure there are some things in the comic that would NOT have worked on screen, and I'd rather see something different than something watered down. Does that make any sense?Well, after tonight's episode/previews, I no longer hold any delusions about knowing what's going on just because I read the comics.
This is like 'alternate reality' Walking Dead. Same characters for the most part, but going off in crazy new directions that... Well, whatever. It's still zombies and it's still about the same characters... kinda. But, I'm no longer certain about the season finale. And certainly have no clue as to where season 2 will go or if they will encounter the same locations & people.
It makes me a little bit sad, to be honest.
Since I gather you haven't read the comics, why would it matter to you either way?
To answer your question, I very much looked forward to seeing this show as a media translation of the comics. Did I expect slavish devotion to the comics, frame for frame? Of course not. I absolutely grant 'a little room' for making a film from other source material. I loved the LotR trilogy, even though there were a lot of little changes from the books. It's not 'little changes' that make me sad, it's completely different characters, situations and locations.It's still a good show, and I do enjoy watching it. At the same time, some things don't sit well.