Hey everyone, I've got a bit of a problem. The group I am running made it to end of The Fortress of the Stone Giants where they suffered a TPK at the hands of Mokmurian. They went into the fortress by way of the redcap warrens so most of the giants above are still alive. While they did get Conna's help, she and her followers were killed in one of the battles before they reached Mokmurian, so his forces are mostly intact and very soon the giant army is going to march against Sandpoint. So here's the problem, how would you guys reasonably introduce new character's into this? I don't want them to just suddenly appear. It will be about three weeks or so before we continue this AP so any suggestions you guys have would be helpful.
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Ok lets face it...alot of giants and other similar creatures mobilizing and coming together at a central point is going to catch the attention of someone....
The PCs have virtually no reconnaissance against Karzoug at this point in the adventure as written. What they may have learned by now is of virtually no consequence if new heroes rise up and manage to thwart Mokmurian's invasion, following him back to his stronghold and discovering his library and ties to Karzoug.
Have them each make a new 10th or 11th level character, the actual heroes with local ties who would rise to resist a giant invasion. Present it to your players as though you are starting a new Mid-level campaign about a giant invasion, and the prior party was merely the prelude to that campaign. The new party should be high-profile Varisians... High ranking hellknights, renown bards, dread pirates, deep-wood rangers, etc. Competent people who just happen to NOT WANT TO BE EATEN BY GIANTS.
Then let the giants invade. Try to make the best of it, invent some outlandish battle scenes, and have them route Mokmurian himself after a few pitched battles.
This doesn't mean they have to defeat the whole giant army, just target Mokmurian and hit him hard enough to drive him back to Jorgenfist. Then they can follow him there, and the plot is more or less back on track. They kill him, discover the library, learn that he is Karzoug's agent.
Let them pick up the dead PCs' connections to Sandpoint and whatnot when they find their bodies in Jorgenfist. Perhaps the site of their death is haunted, and you can pass on any information you need to that way.
Good luck, report back!
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I'd say roll with it and change the adventure for the new party from "infiltrate/neutralize" to something more like Red Hand of Doom. The first half would be about dealing with the invading giants and the second half would be about following the survivors (possibly including Mokmurian) of the defeated giants back to Jorgenfist to "finish the job" (reduce the encounters to reflect deaths and desertions).
On the other hand, the deaths of the invading giants advance Karzoug's plans to free himself, so Xin-Shalast and the Pinnacle of Avarice should be tougher (more encounters, allow Karzoug's manifestations more freedom to move around, etc.).
On the other hand, the deaths of the invading giants advance Karzoug's plans to free himself, so Xin-Shalast and the Pinnacle of Avarice should be tougher (more encounters, allow Karzoug's manifestations more freedom to move around, etc.).
This last point I contest.
Certainly, you can use this turn of events as an excuse for upping the challenge if you need to at that point. Otherwise, enough giants die exactly when they need to, at the speed of the plot.
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This last point I contest.
Certainly, you can use this turn of events as an excuse for upping the challenge if you need to at that point. Otherwise, enough giants die exactly when they need to, at the speed of the plot.
What is this "plot" you speak of? I thought RPGs were supposed to be alternate universe simulators with strict laws that can never be broken. :-)
Thanks for the suggestions so far guys they have been most helpful and I will report back with what happens in our campaign.
As far as being able to pump up the encounters with the harvested souls of the killed giants, I've found that the current CR has been powerful enough. I have seven players all competent and experienced role players and they were all killed in the final encounter, well... one was turned to stone and is currently gracing Mokmurian's chamber as a prized piece of artwork. That player hopes his character will be freed so that he may continue to play him which of course would help with giving the new characters the info they need to continue the adventure path.
one was turned to stone and is currently gracing Mokmurian's chamber as a prized piece of artwork. That player hopes his character will be freed so that he may continue to play him which of course would help with giving the new characters the info they need to continue the adventure path.
That's really cool! I wish him luck with that, it would be a hell of a story!
On the other hand, the deaths of the invading giants advance Karzoug's plans to free himself, so Xin-Shalast and the Pinnacle of Avarice should be tougher (more encounters, allow Karzoug's manifestations more freedom to move around, etc.).This last point I contest.
Certainly, you can use this turn of events as an excuse for upping the challenge if you need to at that point. Otherwise, enough giants die exactly when they need to, at the speed of the plot.
Well, some GMs (myself included) like to run dynamic, organic worlds where there are consequences to PC failure, even if the overall plot is more or less set. In this case,
"More encounters, allow[ing] Karzoug's manifestations more freedom to move around, etc." hardly constitute an impossible situation to overcome. The party will just need to rest more often (which is not a huge problem at 16th-17th level, especially if they primarily use easily replenished resources like native spells and "x-times/day" items instead of consumables such as single-shot/charged items). If I had said "higher CR encounters, allowing Karzoug's manifestations the ability to appear anywhere in the Pinnacle of Avarice and stalk the characters, all of the encounters gang up on the party, etc." then you could castigate me for "upping the challenge" without "needing to."
DP, this is a matter of personal preference, I suppose.
Normally, I am all for including consequences of player actions, but if this is all in response to a TPK, perhaps an increase in challenge simply isn't warranted.
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I tend to agree with Evil, challenge level should be appropriate for the party. If a group got TPKed they are likely to get mauled again if there is a ramped up challenge level.
Since there are no characters in common with the previous group it's entirely possible to have the new group start a little further back in time on a parallel time line. You could introduce them as scouts that are working in an area that doesn't overlap with the PCs. They could even hear about the accomplishments of their alter selves as they are accomplishing various missions and culminating with their own confrontation with Mokmurian not long after the original party's assault. You would have to make some additional side material carefully avoiding the places where the original party went but then the players would build up to the encounter again and when they get there the war wouldn't have progressed at all.
Again, I am not advocating increasing the CR of the encounters, I am advocating increasing the number of possible encounters and adding a few other effects (
Again, I am not advocating increasing the CR of the encounters, I am advocating increasing the number of possible encounters and adding a few other effects (** spoiler omitted **) to indicate that Karzoug is closer to actually breaking free.
Noted. Also, noted that this could make the ensuing encounters easier if the players level more before reaching them. It's a solid point that I missed earlier because I level my PCs arbitrarily at plot points.
Update: I introduced the new party as an adventuring group just returned from a mission for the Secretary of the Lord-Mayor of Magnimar. after resting they were called to the Lord-Mayors office to meet with the secretary who gave them a mission to scout north of Ravenmore to confirm or disprove the reports of increased giant activity.
In the meantime an agent of an unnamed party dropped in on the party member (Malikye) who was turned into stone and made him an offer; agree to take a black stone and place it within Runeforge without informing the group and he would restore him and all his equipment. He agreed to the terms and was restored and teleported with all his goods to Sandpoint to await the new group.
A second member (Constantine) of the group was resurrected by Sarenrae to continue the fight against the Runelords, he joined the group halfway between Magnimar and Sandpoint, he didn't remember much at first.
Going to Sandpoint they met up with Malikye and after a brief reunion with Constantine made their way to the Storval Stairs where they found the giant army gathering. After confirming that Mokmurian was indeed within the camp they decided to shadow the army until they had a moment to strike.
They were able to separate Mokmurian from the rest of the giant army and kill him afterwards they dropped his severed head amongst his army which caused it to break apart 4 days march away from Sandpoint. They have journeyed back to Sandpoint to discover the sinkhole and that's where we stopped.
Again, thanks for the suggestions they were very helpful.