RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
|
I'd reward it if the players defeat the threat decisively. If the bad guys don't come back after running away, that's decisive. If they do come back, the players should only get XP for defeating them once.
Now if it's a recurring villian who teleports in, lays some havoc, and teleports back out again, I'd give the PCs experience for surviving the encounter even if they didn't strictly defeat it, just like you give XP for traps whether the PCs disarm it or just take the damage.
I give full XP every time the opponent retreats, as long as the opponent is at full strength each time.
For instance, if the opponent teleports out, heals its wounds (by spells or potions), then returns the same day, they would only get XP once, since the opponent would not be at full strength (he would have used spells/potions/scrolls).
If the PCs scare off some mooks with no Effort simply because they are so powerful and intimidating, then they get minimal XP at best ... maybe 25% or less.
On the first paragraph:
I would award full exp for handling the encounter. Much like surviving a fireball trap that goes off but ends up dealing no damage to the PCs. They succeeded in the situation so they deserve the exp -- maybe more if they are trying to be "goodly" and avoid the taking of life when at all possible.
I kind of eyeball it. I keep a running tab of all "successful encounters" then hand out combat XP at the end of a session; if I determine that an encounter for one reason or another should give no/less XP I just dock that amount from the final total (or rather, don't add it into the calculation).
Generally it's not a problem though. The only times really that enemies flee from my players and survive the escape is generally when the players let them go for one reason or another. Having an enemy break ranks and run screaming during an engaging battle is a rare incident.
If you use the morale sections in the APs it happens all the time. Sometimes creatures will run if they have 40 or 50% hit points left. Not to mention it makes sense, not everything is willing to fight to the death. Especially smart wizards and such that can easily teleport and dimension door away.I kind of eyeball it. I keep a running tab of all "successful encounters" then hand out combat XP at the end of a session; if I determine that an encounter for one reason or another should give no/less XP I just dock that amount from the final total (or rather, don't add it into the calculation).
Generally it's not a problem though. The only times really that enemies flee from my players and survive the escape is generally when the players let them go for one reason or another. Having an enemy break ranks and run screaming during an engaging battle is a rare incident.
True, how many animals would realistically fight to the death? Is it he smart move for an intelligent creature to fight to the death when it could run?
If they beat an enemy they should get full xp.
So what if he resurfaces later? Is he suddenly not dangerous? Will you pull your punches and say that it is now impossible for him to kill someone simply because they've already been given xp for him?
You are telling them that this enemy is attacking to kill them, so they have the risk of their character dieing, but no reward for it.
Think of it this way if a CR10 Ogre shows and the party kills it you would give them xp. If another CR10 Ogre shows up 2 days later you wouldn't consider denying them xp for it just because it isn't any more dangerous than the first Ogre. It is the same case here.
Of course as Are suggests if the enemy isn't at full strength, then he isn't as much of a threat. If he's limping around at 1/2 HP and most of his spells/special abilities missing then drop his CR a point or two. If it's immediate (and I mean like a minute or two to follow him) then it really isn't a second encounter.
|
I'd reward it if the players defeat the threat decisively. If the bad guys don't come back after running away, that's decisive. If they do come back, the players should only get XP for defeating them once.
Now if it's a recurring villian who teleports in, lays some havoc, and teleports back out again, I'd give the PCs experience for surviving the encounter even if they didn't strictly defeat it, just like you give XP for traps whether the PCs disarm it or just take the damage.
Your supposed to give XP for traps that the PCs fail to stop in any way, I'm sorry, if that's the rule i'm houseruling it out. If you fail in every way to stop the trap, then you shouldn't get XP for it.
Your supposed to give XP for traps that the PCs fail to stop in any way, I'm sorry, if that's the rule i'm houseruling it out. If you fail in every way to stop the trap, then you shouldn't get XP for it.I'd reward it if the players defeat the threat decisively. If the bad guys don't come back after running away, that's decisive. If they do come back, the players should only get XP for defeating them once.
Now if it's a recurring villian who teleports in, lays some havoc, and teleports back out again, I'd give the PCs experience for surviving the encounter even if they didn't strictly defeat it, just like you give XP for traps whether the PCs disarm it or just take the damage.
True, I certainly wouldn't give out xp for a trap that blew up in their face.
|
It all depends:
For example: During one adventure, I had a sorceror who started a fight with a fireball, and then teleported away. I didn't give extra XP when they fought him before, counting it as if the other creatures in the fight had used a necklace of fireballs.
In another game, I had a returning, ongoing villain who leveled with the group. I gave xp each time they defeated him.
In yet another game, I had a bone dragon construct that re-animated once every 1d4 hours, so when the players tried to retreat and whittle down the dungeon's denizens, they always had that creature to deal with. I only gave XP once, as it was meant to discourage them from multiple fights.
It all depends:
For example: During one adventure, I had a sorceror who started a fight with a fireball, and then teleported away. I didn't give extra XP when they fought him before, counting it as if the other creatures in the fight had used a necklace of fireballs.
In another game, I had a returning, ongoing villain who leveled with the group. I gave xp each time they defeated him.
In yet another game, I had a bone dragon construct that re-animated once every 1d4 hours, so when the players tried to retreat and whittle down the dungeon's denizens, they always had that creature to deal with. I only gave XP once, as it was meant to discourage them from multiple fights.
In the first example you gave they didn't defeat the guy. He simply ambushed them and ran away before they could really do anything. That's more like a trap than a fight.
|
|
In the first example you gave they didn't defeat the guy. He simply ambushed them and ran away before they could really do anything. That's more like a trap than a fight.It all depends:
For example: During one adventure, I had a sorceror who started a fight with a fireball, and then teleported away. I didn't give extra XP when they fought him before, counting it as if the other creatures in the fight had used a necklace of fireballs.
Correct, save his minions fought the group after he fireballed them to "finish them off". I believe the creatures they fought were a lower CR than what would normally be challenging, so having a sudden fireball trap didn't hurt them too much, thus why I didn't give them double the XP for the BBEG
Correct, save his minions fought the group after he fireballed them to "finish them off". I believe the creatures they fought were a lower CR than what would normally be challenging, so having a sudden fireball trap didn't hurt them too much, thus why I didn't give them double the XP for the BBEGIn the first example you gave they didn't defeat the guy. He simply ambushed them and ran away before they could really do anything. That's more like a trap than a fight.It all depends:
For example: During one adventure, I had a sorceror who started a fight with a fireball, and then teleported away. I didn't give extra XP when they fought him before, counting it as if the other creatures in the fight had used a necklace of fireballs.
Perfectly reasonable, although it would get mighty frustrating for the PCs if you pulled that trick more than once or twice.
If you use the morale sections in the APs it happens all the time. Sometimes creatures will run if they have 40 or 50% hit points left. Not to mention it makes sense, not everything is willing to fight to the death. Especially smart wizards and such that can easily teleport and dimension door away.I kind of eyeball it. I keep a running tab of all "successful encounters" then hand out combat XP at the end of a session; if I determine that an encounter for one reason or another should give no/less XP I just dock that amount from the final total (or rather, don't add it into the calculation).
Generally it's not a problem though. The only times really that enemies flee from my players and survive the escape is generally when the players let them go for one reason or another. Having an enemy break ranks and run screaming during an engaging battle is a rare incident.
Very true, but every time that's come up in my STAP game the players kill them too fast....
EDIT: Scratch that, there were a few that made it away. Rowyn in TINO and Drevoraz in TBWG both made their scheduled escapes, and the group got their due XP for it. Might have been some others. But there were also a few combats where they just decimated everything, with no chance to run for it :P
|
|
Perfectly reasonable, although it would get mighty frustrating for the PCs if you pulled that trick more than once or twice.Correct, save his minions fought the group after he fireballed them to "finish them off". I believe the creatures they fought were a lower CR than what would normally be challenging, so having a sudden fireball trap didn't hurt them too much, thus why I didn't give them double the XP for the BBEGIn the first example you gave they didn't defeat the guy. He simply ambushed them and ran away before they could really do anything. That's more like a trap than a fight.It all depends:
For example: During one adventure, I had a sorceror who started a fight with a fireball, and then teleported away. I didn't give extra XP when they fought him before, counting it as if the other creatures in the fight had used a necklace of fireballs.
Agree completely. If I had used a "recursive" monster who only helped monsters gang up on the players, I'd ensure there was some additional reward. And certainly, seeing as how the players were 9th level, having a monster who could teleport multiple times to pull of this trick may be too high to use.
Your supposed to give XP for traps that the PCs fail to stop in any way, I'm sorry, if that's the rule i'm houseruling it out. If you fail in every way to stop the trap, then you shouldn't get XP for it.
The only way you "fail in every way to stop the trap" is if it kills every PC before they get past it. Otherwise, they have indeed "stopped the trap", since the trap's job is to prevent them from progressing further into wherever they were going.
Your supposed to give XP for traps that the PCs fail to stop in any way, I'm sorry, if that's the rule i'm houseruling it out. If you fail in every way to stop the trap, then you shouldn't get XP for it.The only way you "fail in every way to stop the trap" is if it kills every PC before they get past it. Otherwise, they have indeed "stopped the trap", since the trap's job is to prevent them from progressing further into wherever they were going.
agreement and well put.
Sounds like you need to ratchet up the difficulty :-)... every time ... in my STAP game the players kill them too fast
SNIP
... there were also a few combats where they just decimated everything, with no chance to run for it
Yup, I did after that, hasn't been a problem... but then they've only fought pirates, territorial dinosaurs, and the rest of the stuff on the Island since, nothing else that would run. We'll see what happens when they get to the next "flee at X HP" encounter.
I still remember on encounter I ran with an Arrowhawk. It never really did anything to the party except try to eat the ranger's pet hawk. It managed to limp away with 1 HP and they were more than little pissed when I informed them of this.
The full story is awesome enough to be quoted by people who weren't even there.
|
|
Your supposed to give XP for traps that the PCs fail to stop in any way, I'm sorry, if that's the rule i'm houseruling it out. If you fail in every way to stop the trap, then you shouldn't get XP for it.The only way you "fail in every way to stop the trap" is if it kills every PC before they get past it. Otherwise, they have indeed "stopped the trap", since the trap's job is to prevent them from progressing further into wherever they were going.
Except that few traps are designed with the intent to kill all 4 PCs if it went off, so that's an absurd suggestion. In real life the goal is to kill. In game design the traps are designed to debilitate, drain resources. If you give xp for failing to spot the trap, not disabling it, and having it hit the PC but oh I rolled 5 damage and you have 12 hp why not just change traps to say, okay take off 10 hp and give yourself 200xp. Are you really saying that a CR 1 arrow trap with a manual reset is designed with the intent to kill all 4 people in a level 1 party, so if it goes off because they failed to spot it and stumbled right into it they should get xp? In that case do you give xp if a player desides to fall off his horse and takes falling damage, cause it's the same difference.
|
|
A mid-level Barbarian shouldn't get XP for simply walking blindly through and setting off basic traps because he has the HP and Saves to do so (and a Cleric to cure him). Now if the party knows there's a trap there and have no other way to deal with it and having a PC walk into it, set it off and perhaps lure nearby opponents after the supposedly wounded/dead victim and it's all part of a plan then that's different.However, failing to deal with a trap is worth partial XP at best, depending upon the circumstances (if a lower-level PC spends a long time investigating and studying a higher-level trap, they can stall learn a lot even if they fail their roll ... so XP in that case, for RP if nothing else).
IMHO,
Rez
+1
the way I do it is if they spot the trap but don't attempt to disable it and it goes off in their face, partial xp
If they spot the trap and attempt to disarm it but fail, slightly more xp,
If they disarm it in full or cleverly bypass it, full xp
If they blunder into it without seeing it and it goes off, no xp.
Personally if the trap goes off in their face, unless it was because of a botched disable check, no xp.
Except that few traps are designed with the intent to kill all 4 PCs if it went off, so that's an absurd suggestion.
No, actually, it isn't. Mainly because you're A) misreading me, B) putting words in my mouth, or C) just ignoring what I wrote. Note that I did not say "unless the trap kills all the PCs when it goes off", I said "unless the trap kills all the PCs before they pass it". By passing the trap -- whether that's getting to the other side of a trapped room or just opening the chest and getting the loot regardless of the fact that you got a poison needle to the hand -- you've overcome the encounter. Thus, you cannot have "failed in every way", because you've succeeded in passing the trap. You didn't pass it in the most optimal manner, but that is explicitly not required to earn the XP for an encounter.
Except that few traps are designed with the intent to kill all 4 PCs if it went off, so that's an absurd suggestion. In real life the goal is to kill. In game design the traps are designed to debilitate, drain resources. If you give xp for failing to spot the trap, not disabling it, and having it hit the PC but oh I rolled 5 damage and you have 12 hp why not just change traps to say, okay take off 10 hp and give yourself 200xp. Are you really saying that a CR 1 arrow trap with a manual reset is designed with the intent to kill all 4 people in a level 1 party, so if it goes off because they failed to spot it and stumbled right into it they should get xp? In that case do you give xp if a player desides to fall off his horse and takes falling damage, cause it's the same difference.Your supposed to give XP for traps that the PCs fail to stop in any way, I'm sorry, if that's the rule i'm houseruling it out. If you fail in every way to stop the trap, then you shouldn't get XP for it.The only way you "fail in every way to stop the trap" is if it kills every PC before they get past it. Otherwise, they have indeed "stopped the trap", since the trap's job is to prevent them from progressing further into wherever they were going.
Ok so if a monster eats up resources and you get past it you get exp.
If a trap eats up resources and you get past it you don't get exp.
BUT if a trap gets bypassed and doesn't eat up resources (i.e. your rogue disabled it with a skill check) THEN you get exp.
EDIT:
Keep a list of the CRs of all the monsters, traps, obstacles, and roleplaying encounters the PCs overcome. At the end of each session, award XP to each PC that participated. Each monster, trap, and obstacle awards a set amount of XP, as determined by its CR, regardless of the level of the party in relation to the challenge, although you should never bother awarding XP for challenges that have a CR of 10 or more lower than the APL.
It doesn't tell you to not give them exp just because they didn't disable it, it doesn't tell you to not give them exp if the monster doesn't die. It simply says to give it to them if they participate and get through it.
The 3.5 DMG said: "Overcoming the challenge of a trap involves encountering the trap, either by disarming it, avoiding it, or simply surviving the damage it deals."
So, I give full XP for traps no matter how they get past it.
If you use the morale sections in the APs it happens all the time. Sometimes creatures will run if they have 40 or 50% hit points left. Not to mention it makes sense, not everything is willing to fight to the death.
As an aside, this is something which immediately impressed me about the Pathfinder APs, right from Burnt Offerings on, and I admire the scenario for three reasons. First and perhaps least, it seems more psychologically understandable. As you said, not everything is willing to fight to the death. Second, by having the BBEG or whatever the PCs are fighting try to flee before they hit rock-bottom hp makes it easier for them to get away and produce recurring villains, which are excellent tools for any DM. Finally, and most subtly, it allows the DM to throw opponents at the PCs which are, by rights, beyond their abilities. However, since they only have to deal a significant amount of damage before the thing flees, the encounter is effectively more survivable and provides for some really interesting/challenging/fun/epic scenarios.
I'm afraid, regarding the discussion proper on XP for traps, I have nothing to add which has not already been stated.