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I am just about to finish my 5th AP module. I am actually running the first two APs at the same time so this will be CoCT-3. Next week begins RoTR-3.
I have found that each AP takes about 4-5 sessions to complete, which has caused me a problem because the first three APs in a set require characters to progress 3 levels, and this is just too fast for my tastes.
Which is why, of course, I've run two APs simultaneously.
If you go for the Pathfinder Society progression, 3 sessions per level, you would still need to run two APs to get up to 10th level. Personally, I prefer 5 sessions per level, so I've had to add quite a lot of new material as well.
Clearly, running two APs in this manner is difficult because of balancing issues. The characters are under-powered for the end of the first AP and over-powered for the beginning of the second.
I cannot be the only one running into these difficulties, and I wonder whether Paizo might think about addressing these problems in some way.
There may be a case to be made for changing the amount of material against level in some fashion - i.e. make each AP module span 2 levels only and stop at level 12, rather than 16. That would surely tie in nicely with Pathfinder Society scenarios.
Alternatively, there could be guidelines for integrating in other modules at different point during the AP modules, or even suggesting ways in which two APs could be combined together.
Any thoughts?
Richard
Why are you using the PF society rules? They were created for comparability reasons from event to event only, not for regular gameplay.
The only rule of thumb I remember is 1 Level per 4-5 Encounters. (Can´t find it written down, though)
How long are your sessions? 4 hours?
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Why are you using the PF society rules? They were created for comparability reasons from event to event only, not for regular gameplay.
The only rule of thumb I remember is 1 Level per 4-5 Encounters. (Can´t find it written down, though)
How long are your sessions? 4 hours?
Round about 4 hours, yes.
I'm not using Pathfinder Society rules. It's more a case of roughly speaking how often do players and GMs like characters to go up a level.
If you, like me, prefer around 3-5 sessions per level, then the AP modules, particularly the early ones, go up too fast. Therefore, you need some help adding more content, or integrating with other APS.
If there are enough people who feel like I do, then maybe Paizo could provide some help so that we can run AP based campaigns which are more in keeping with this sort of level progression.
I mention Pathfinder Society level progression and level 12 top out because it suggests where there could be some compatibility / consistency with other Pathfinder products.
Richard
Creative Director
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If there are enough people who feel like I do, then maybe Paizo could provide some help so that we can run AP based campaigns which are more in keeping with this sort of level progression.
I mention Pathfinder Society level progression and level 12 top out because it suggests where there could be some compatibility / consistency with other Pathfinder products.
Richard
I'm always looking for feedback on our Adventure Paths. At this point, after doing nearly ten of them, I feel we've dialed in a fair amount of things like advancement speed—some folks might still find them too short and others too long, but for the most part I feel that the APs are in a pretty comfortable and efficient middle zone.
We've had FAR too much interest in APs that go to higher level and far too many complaints when they don't to really consider only going to 12th level in an AP.
As for how to extend them... the best bet is to use the Slow XP advancement track and then use additional adventures to expand each chapter of the AP. The majority of our Adventure Paths are actually built to handle the insertion of additional adventure and stuff pretty well; we try to limit the "cliffhanger style" endings since the between-adventures gaps are a perfect place to add in an additional module or two.
Ah, okay, I see your point. But I´m afraid that this isn´t something that can be helped with by paizo.
For your group, you can tell how much progression storywise there is in a regular session, but this probably isn´t the same in my group.
Where your players f.e. beat the Ap´s
So where your players have ended the AP in a single session, for my players the AP has just begun.
This is the reason why a level per session ratio isn´t a good measure to go for the APs imho.
Now you can just continue what you are doing or you can follow Kthulhus advice or start using the regular xp-based system.
I do not see another way to solve this. But it has been said that I am slow sometimes :).
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If there are enough people who feel like I do, then maybe Paizo could provide some help so that we can run AP based campaigns which are more in keeping with this sort of level progression.
I mention Pathfinder Society level progression and level 12 top out because it suggests where there could be some compatibility / consistency with other Pathfinder products.
Richard
I'm always looking for feedback on our Adventure Paths. At this point, after doing nearly ten of them, I feel we've dialed in a fair amount of things like advancement speed—some folks might still find them too short and others too long, but for the most part I feel that the APs are in a pretty comfortable and efficient middle zone.
We've had FAR too much interest in APs that go to higher level and far too many complaints when they don't to really consider only going to 12th level in an AP.
As for how to extend them... the best bet is to use the Slow XP advancement track and then use additional adventures to expand each chapter of the AP. The majority of our Adventure Paths are actually built to handle the insertion of additional adventure and stuff pretty well; we try to limit the "cliffhanger style" endings since the between-adventures gaps are a perfect place to add in an additional module or two.
Seven Swords of Sin fits in nicely with Rise of the Runelords, and Clash of the Kingslayers fits in beautifully between CotCT 3 and 4
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As for how to extend them... the best bet is to use the Slow XP advancement track and then use additional adventures to expand each chapter of the AP. The majority of our Adventure Paths are actually built to handle the insertion of additional adventure and stuff pretty well; we try to limit the "cliffhanger style" endings since the between-adventures gaps are a perfect place to add in an additional module or two.
I tell you what would be nice would be for the APs to indicate at particular points where other modules, including pathfinder society, could be inserted, or where the possibility of further adventure could take place if a GM wants to build upon it himself.
I have seen some of this already, I believe, but it would be nice if you could try to do it at the level-advancement points, if you see what I mean.
For example, you could have something at a certain point in an AP which said, "If your PCs haven't got to 2nd level at this point, consider running XXX module or expanding on the adventures in the YYY mountains." Or maybe having an appendix detailing where further adventures, published or not, could take place.
Seven Swords of Sin fits in nicely with Rise of the Runelords, and Clash of the Kingslayers fits in beautifully between CotCT 3 and 4
This is exactly the sort of thing I mean.
Thank you for listening, BTW.
All the best
Richard
I have found that each AP takes about 4-5 sessions to complete...
Wow, that's exactly the opposite of my experience. Our group games for about 3.5 hours every week, and it takes us about 12 sessions to get through one chapter. Which, of course, means it takes us pretty much a year and a half (!!!) to get through the whole AP, way too long in my opinion. We level about once every three weeks or so.
I have found that each AP takes about 4-5 sessions to complete...Wow, that's exactly the opposite of my experience. Our group games for about 3.5 hours every week, and it takes us about 12 sessions to get through one chapter. Which, of course, means it takes us pretty much a year and a half (!!!) to get through the whole AP, way too long in my opinion. We level about once every three weeks or so.
Same here, though I don't feel it is an excessive length. In CotCT, we are at the middle of the first chapter, and run 7 sessions, of 3 hours each:
1st - Meeting of the characters (festival of the city founding). Only rp.2nd - Old Fishery, first floor. Plus previous information gathering (some rp)
3rd - Old Fishery, second floor. Some rp about the city rebellion.
4th - Meeting the Queen, helping the lambs. Celabration of the coming of age of the halfling char (his quest was rescuing his sister from Lamm). Flashback story involving the halfling and the Arkonas. Only rp.
5th - Grau, Amin Jalento. Some rp about the deeds in the city (embassador of Cheliax, food shorting, hellkinghts).
6th - All the World's Meat.
7th - Vancaskerkin interrogation. Meeting with Cressida. Plus flashback story introducing derros, cabaggehead, Arkonas, sczarni. Plus flashback story introducing Urgathoa. All rp.
With rp I mean roleplaying without actual combat.