What are you talking about? There can be only one. Hence the reason why there was only one movie, and it never spawned sequels or the even more ridiculous idea of television spin-offs.
Any claims to the contrary are probably just the result of some bad clams.
D6 STAR WARS FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No other system got the Jedi down pat as well as this one.
Maybe, but I didn't like the actual SYSTEM. It was too littered with inconsistancies. For example: Swimming is a Strength skill. Tusken Raiders are strong. Ergo, Tusken raiders are excellent swimmers.
You may say that "but D&D has swimming as a strength skill too." However, in D6, the base ability is MUCH more important to a sucessful skill use than in D20.
Have you read I, Jedi by chance?
No, should I?
Also, a late EDIT: It seems my 2nd post was already covered AND the Highlander reference was already made. I should read before I type.
Obi Wan doesn't remember owning any droids? Really?
Ah. I guess that "explains" it - or, at least, kludges it together a bit. I suppose I was too busy being so very disappointed by how the ever-shrinking size of the star wars universe (Yoda knows Chewie? How small is this cosmos anyhow?) to construct a plausible defense of the line. ("I don't remember owning any droids. Of course, I once had one assigned to me by the republic, but I didn't /own/ it. And, obviously, I've worked very closely with the very droids we're discussing on several occasions, but they were somebody else's..." Yeah. I guess that makes sense - or maybe I'm just going to have to throw my lot in with houstonderek's selective amnesia faction.)
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or maybe I'm just going to have to throw my lot in with houstonderek's selective amnesia faction.)
What are we talking about here again?
Lets face it fans of the pre-quels will do any number of mental gymnastics to explain what is glaring to non-fans of the pre-quels. The pre-quels suck, but as has been shown by the phantom edit, if you take control away from lucas, you can use his ideas to create a much better movie.
I personally have a dream. I want to edit out 1 hour from each of the 3 pre-quels I think if you edit 1 hour of footage from each film, you have a much better movie. Until I can find a good movie editer program and non DRMed versions of the prequels to edit, it's just a dream.
Granted nothing can fix the terrible mistake of having the droids be in the pre-quels in the first place, or the aweful non-sensical actions in the movie (#2 opening I'm looking at you)
or maybe I'm just going to have to throw my lot in with houstonderek's selective amnesia faction.)What are we talking about here again?
Lets face it fans of the pre-quels will do any number of mental gymnastics to explain what is glaring to non-fans of the pre-quels. The pre-quels suck,
Do they?
If they were not "Prequels" but an entirely separate universe, would they still "suck?"
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or maybe I'm just going to have to throw my lot in with houstonderek's selective amnesia faction.)What are we talking about here again?
Lets face it fans of the pre-quels will do any number of mental gymnastics to explain what is glaring to non-fans of the pre-quels. The pre-quels suck,
Do they?
If they were not "Prequels" but an entirely separate universe, would they still "suck?"
# 1 and 2 hell yes between bad acting, and the characters making illogical, non-sensical, outright stupid decisions at every turn.
#3 maybe not, but that ending was terrible (I don't know if JEJ actually did the voice of that NOOOOO! but it was the least convincing, utterly horrible yell I've ever heard, I burst out laughing in the theatre and that is not how you want to end a dramatic fantasy movie.
they all had cool scenes but as a whole, each one was weak to outright bad (especially #1 with Jar-Jar).
...if you take control away from lucas, you can use his ideas to create a much better movie.
That is not necessarily true. A New Hope is still my favorite of the series, and it was directed by George Lucas.
The Star Wars Holiday Special was a heaping pile of bantha poodoo, and it was directed by Steve Binder.
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...if you take control away from lucas, you can use his ideas to create a much better movie.
That is not necessarily true. A New Hope is still my favorite of the series, and it was directed by George Lucas.
The Star Wars Holiday Special was a heaping pile of bantha poodoo, and it was directed by Steve Binder.
Direction is only one aspect of control, there's also editing, costume design, lots of other little things that go into a movie.
Hence why you see directors cuts.
Lucas did not have complete creative control for a new hope. He had people reigning him in and telling him what would and wouldn't work. That's why even with him directing the film it's a great movie because they didn't just say, here's a couple mil, go nuts. (which is what they did with the pre-quels, only they said here's a hundred mil)
Direction is only one aspect of control, there's also editing, costume design, lots of other little things that go into a movie.Hence why you see directors cuts.
Lucas did not have complete creative control for a new hope. He had people reigning him in and telling him what would and wouldn't work. That's why even with him directing the film it's a great movie because they didn't just say, here's a couple mil, make something star wars.
So, you saying ANH was good because Lucas DIDN'T have control, even though he wrote and directed it? You saying the holiday special was bad because Lucas DID have control, even though he neither directed, produced, or wrote it (various sources disagree about him being a writer, but he was not credited in the special)?
I'm going to have to disagree. Also, he had more freedom than you think during ANH. He was coming off the sucess of American Graffitti (another sucessful film he directed), and the studio gave him a long lead, even though they didn't think it would be sucessful (as evidenced by his ownership of the merchandising). NO director has unlimited control.
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Direction is only one aspect of control, there's also editing, costume design, lots of other little things that go into a movie.Hence why you see directors cuts.
Lucas did not have complete creative control for a new hope. He had people reigning him in and telling him what would and wouldn't work. That's why even with him directing the film it's a great movie because they didn't just say, here's a couple mil, make something star wars.
So, you saying ANH was good because Lucas DIDN'T have control, even though he wrote and directed it? You saying the holiday special was bad because Lucas DID have control, even though he neither directed, produced, or wrote it (various sources disagree about him being a writer, but he was not credited in the special)?
I'm going to have to disagree. Also, he had more freedom than you think during ANH. He was coming off the sucess of American Graffitti (another sucessful film he directed), and the studio gave him a long lead, even though they didn't think it would be sucessful (as evidenced by his ownership of the merchandising). NO director has unlimited control.
Dude what's your problem, Just because the holiday special sucks too, does not have anything to do with what I'm saying. I never mentioned the holiday special, you did. The made for TV movies sucked as well. That doesn't change what I'm saying either. Just because things suck without lucas (I've seen some star wars comics that suck too) has nothing to do with what I'm saying and are a complete strawman. Hey you know what also sucks Batman and Robin, and lucas had absolutely nothing to do with that. Is that a refutation of what I'm saying?
And no I don't think he had more control than I think he did. I've seen stuff like original concept art for han solo, etc. that show where he didn't get his way. I'm not saying he's not a good director, I like lucas and I like star wars. But he had WAAAAAY more freedom with the prequels than he did with a new hope, and if you think otherwise you're just fooling yourself. There's a difference between, alright you made a good movie so we'll let you try out this space opera thing of yours and okay star wars is one of the most successful movie franchises of our time and people have been clamoring for these movies for years. You own the rights and have the backing now to do what you want. And you can see it in the results. Another thing that reigned him in in a new hope was the technical limitations of the time. Where-as computer technology gave him free reign to put in anything he could imagine in. A new hope is good, the pre-quels suck. A big part of that is how much control Lucas had. You know what isn't being released, a directors cut of the pre-quels that's much better than the ones we see in the theatre, you know why? because the release was the directors cut.
This highlights one of George Lucas's major continuity failings in crafting the prequels - the Wah Hoo factor. It's like he feels he has to top what he did before. Not only can the Jedi jump pretty well, do a few flips, hit impossible targets, and levitate stuff - now they can jump out of speeders thousands of feet away from the speeder they want to catch and all sorts of other wacky stuff because he has to top what he did before. If the Star Wars movies were at 10 on the amplifier, he had to find one to go to 11 for the prequels, perhaps even 12 for the wretched Attack of the Clones.
I can accept that the technology of the film-making has improved, that this enables the clone troopers to have much cooler weaponry than the stormtroopers 20-30 years later. The production process has simply made it easier to spew loads of flash and bang across the screen. But that doesn't explain why the scope of ability had to be ratcheted up.
I basically agree...
...but on the other hand, the prequels didn't have a weapon capable of blowing up entire planets.
And as for the Jedi being more powerful in the prequels, I might point out that there was a whole SCHOOL for them, and they were being constantly, intensively trained over a period of years and years. In contrast, Luke had very little training. And even Kenobi and Yoda could have fallen out of practice, after so many years of inaction.
I will admit that I rolled my eyes when Kenobi and Anakin effortlessly deflected hundreds of blaster bolts at once in episode 3...
...but as for jumping out of speeders thousands of feet away from the speeder they want to catch, ridiculous though that is, I had to forgive that because...
...well...
WAH HOO!!!
Have you read I, Jedi by chance?
Now, what might be considered a much bigger plot hole is the fact that Obi Wan gave Luke to LUKE and ANAKIN's RELATIVES, on his homeworld. Out of all the millions of billions of beings in the galaxy, he gave them to some of the few people that Anakin knew personally and that were related to him. If it's not 'it's so stupid, he'll never think we did it', I don't know what is. Not to mention that Obi Wan continues to wear jedi robes, all while living NEAR those relatives.
Anakin knew that Padme was pregnant, but not that she had twins. Luke was the decoy. Leia was supposed to be the savior of the Jedi Order. Jedi are a cold, emotionless bunch.
Just kidding...
...or am I?
>:)
I read it and I didn't like it. I'm not sure why- I think it's because I found the main character pretensious and thought he had waaaaaaaaaaaay too much fun with jedi mind tricks(a point for those who think jedi are more than a bit amoral). I'll have to go back and read it again.
I'm not a huge fan of the prequels, but I do think it's fun to see if you can make things make sense...like a logic puzzle, mystery ,or an archaeology dig.
Dude what's your problem, Just because the holiday special sucks too, does not have anything to do with what I'm saying. I never mentioned the holiday special, you did. The made for TV movies sucked as well. That doesn't change what I'm saying either. Just because things suck without lucas (I've seen some star wars comics that suck too) has nothing to do with what I'm saying and are a complete strawman. Hey you know what also sucks Batman and Robin, and lucas had absolutely nothing to do with that. Is that a refutation of what I'm saying?And no I don't think he had more control than I think he did. I've seen stuff like original concept art for han solo, etc. that show where he didn't get his way. I'm not saying he's not a good director, I like lucas and I like star wars. But he had WAAAAAY more freedom with the prequels than he did...
Angry much?
I don't have a "problem". I just happen to disagree with you. You were making a blanket statement (usually a bad idea), and I was pointing out why I didn't think your opinion was correct, offering my own opinion in rebuttal. If you can't handle someone disagreeing with you, that's your "problem".
Also, relating one star wars movie to another is a much smaller step than relating a star wars movie to a batman movie. They inhabit completely separate fictional worlds, have different creators, AND are different sub-genres of movies (some might argue different genres). However, for the record, I agree with you. "Batman and Robin" was horrible too.
Leia and her mother:
I'm not a bit fan of the prequels. Phantom Menace was horrible and a good example of what happens when somebody is arrogant and rich enough not to have somebody tell him he might have a silly idea. Also, don't forget the huge influence Lawrence Kasdan had over the script of the original trilogy. Harrison Ford had a measurably positive influence as well (for example, many of his best lines were unscripted ad-libs).
This bothered me at first too. The official canon explanation is that she was using the Force to remember her mother. It's a cop-out for an obvious oversight but there it is.
Obi-wan's age is about right.
Leia and her mother:
This bothered me at first too. The official canon explanation is that she was using the Force to remember her mother. It's a cop-out for an obvious oversight but there it is.
Actually, I heard a kind of cool explanation (or came up with it, I forget which). One of Padme's bodyguards (Sabe) stayed with and protected Leia, and since the handmaidens were the spitting image of Mom, she could have sort of blurred the concept and remembered the bodyguard.
Also kind of cool was that Winter (Leia's childhood friend/sister/bodyguard/spy) could also serve as Leia's double, and was trained in much the same manner...
Personally, I hold the theory that she simply remembered her adopted mother. They never said in the movies that she remembered Padme, just that she remembered her 'mother.'
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What are y'all talking about? The Star Wars Trilogy is a fine piece of cinematography, and pretty consistent in its continuity.
It's a shame they stopped making Star Wars movies in '83. Could have been a cool re-visitation somewhere down the line. Oh, and I wonder why they never made any cartoons, wrote any novels or did a comic book. They may have been cool, too.
What are you talking about? Timothy Zahn wrote a fine Star Wars novel trilogy in the early '90s.
My Star Wars.
** spoiler omitted **
My Star Wars.
** spoiler omitted **
This shows why "balance" in the force is important.
The "Rule of Two" had caused both the Sith and the Jedi to become corrupt in their own ways.
In a very real sense, Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker really does fulfill the prophecy.
Both existing representatives of the sides of the force had to be removed for a new balance to be found. Note that in the Expanded Universe, with no "Rule of Two", the new Jedi Order is no longer corrupt and the new Sith Order is no longer weak.
Of course, George Lucas himself has a poor grasp of what "balance" means.
My wife has only seen the prequels. She has never seen the first three and I cannot get her to sit on the couch and watch the Original Trilogy because she get's too bored with them.
Check this out. :(
Am I the only who was annoyed by R2-D2's ability to fly in episode 2, an ability which never manifested in episodes 4-6, even though it logically might have (e.g., why not fly off of Jabba's skiff instead of plunging off into the sand?)?
I've never read the novels or comics... how did they retcon that? Defective safety features that resulted in a product recall and downgrading of the R2 droid line?
Am I the only who was annoyed by R2-D2's ability to fly in episode 2, an ability which never manifested in episodes 4-6, even though it logically might have (e.g., why not fly off of Jabba's skiff instead of plunging off into the sand?)?
I've never read the novels or comics... how did they retcon that? Defective safety features that resulted in a product recall and downgrading of the R2 droid line?
R2 units are an obsolete model and the rebels couldn't fine the spare parts to fix him up?
I still remember when I first saw 'The Phantom Menace' back in 1999 - I was already bored to death after the first hour or so, when suddenly Qui-Gon Jinn explained the whole 'midi-chlorians' theory to Anakin.
I suddenly felt dead inside.
'WTF !?!' I told myself ' Now Jedi are NMCs !?! Where is Aya Brea to the rescue ??? Where is EVE ? I want a full Liberation on-screen NOW !!!'
Basically, Force is the result of hyper-production of mitochondia - maybe mutated mithocondria like in the Parasite Eve saga...
How to steal a really good idea* - I loved and still love the whole Parasite Eve series - and transform it into utter trash, I told myself - and after 10+ years, I'm still of the same idea...
*
The original book from Hideaki Sena is from 1995, the first Parasite Eve videogame from 1998, the second videogame from 1999 - the term NMC was not used until PE2, but the whole mutant mitochondria was the base of the saga since the first book. On Wiki, under 'Midi-Chlorians', there an info which says 'Creator George Lucas says that the midi-chlorians are based on the endosymbiotic theory'. Geez, thank you, I've never thought of mitochondria if you didn't say so. So yes, I personally believe that some of these ideas were 'stolen' and incorporated to retcon the whole Jedi history.
Just a last thought - any time I hear the name 'A New Hope' when referring to 'Star Wars' (at worst I could only refer to that movie as 'Episode IV'), I feel... sick (and poor Sebastian Shaw, who was replaced in the final scene of the Force-ghosts on the DVD re-release of Return of the Jedi...).
And I was never a hardcore fan of the SW saga on the first place...
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I have heard folks bemoan the lack of continuity between Episodes IV – VI & Episodes I – III.
Let me first explain my position. I'm 23. I was 10 (about to turn 11) when Episode 1 came out. As a young Star Wars fan, I had read about a dozen Star Wars EU novels before Episode 1 came out, and not the children's ones, I had read the Thrawn trilogy by Timothy Zahn, as well as a handful of X-Wing books. I was a big fan of the franchise before the new trilogy came out.
As a little kid, I thought the lightsaber fights were cool, the droids were funny, and even that the podracer scene had some neat visuals.
I still didn't like a lot of the changes. To me it's not so much that there are blatant contradictions. The problem is with the overall feel of the setting.
I understand that midiclorians don't directly contradict the mystical explanation that Ben gives in A New Hope, but that shift away from mystical wizardy and toward a scientifically explained genetic lottery takes the intrigue and piss out of it.
I'd give more examples, but that one is perfectly illustrative to how I look at what changed.
Have them on this weekend, it's like a car wreck... can't look away.
Sith have the rule of two... Jedi only allow Jedi Masters one Padawan.
Lucas was writing Jedi-as-Sith and didn't realize it.
Well, when one is surrounded by people who agree with everything you say, strange ideas can take root.